lame DM'ing trick

[peloriansun]

I play the cleric in my group. We already had a dedicated arcane caster, and three fighter types. I thought insted of trying to be equal to the three warriors i will focus on being the best darn healer out there. I took quite a few feats and a prestige class to help with this

My DM (who is just begining and sometimes needs help) told me in the next session that he is going to take away my ability to cast healing spells because he thinks the other people depend too much on my healing.

When i asked him why that was a bad thing he simply replied that you guys need to be in more danger, theres no danger if you just cure everybody.

I ask you forum-ites, what should i do?

[Tengu]

Shove a d4 up his nose.

[Green Bean]

Are we talking no healing spells period, or just no more spontaneous healing? If it's the second one, then it'll just be a matter of adjusting your spell list. If it's the first, then that sounds more than a little unfair. In this case, you have a couple of options.

1. Play along: try a few sessions going with the DM's decision. If everyone is horribly killed because of the lack of healing, you've proved your point. If the DM was right, and the lack of healing spells contributes to the sense of danger while still allowing you to have fun, making it a better game, great! If the DM is happy with his decision, but you're miserable, talk it over again. See if the DM changes his mind. If not, pick a different angle.

2. CoDzilla: You don't need to heal stuff if you smoosh their heads before they can hurt you. Many of the good people on this board could show you how to make your cleric into a killing machine. The downside? It could tee off the DM, plus cleric-zilla doesn't come into its own until higher levels.

3. Leave: Yes, this is a bit drastic, but if you honestly aren't having fun, then leave. There'll be other games, and other DMs, some of whom may even let your cleric act in its primary capacity. This is not recommended if the DM is friend or family.

[Diggorian]

I like how you're forum name matches this character concept, first off. :smallamused:

You should explain to the young DM that danger and risk are better expressed with the setting than in the abilities of the protagonists. Mordor wasnt a horrid place cause the ring was burdening Frodo and Sam had never been there before; it was nasty because it was full of orcs, in easy view of Sauron, and had harsh barren terrain.

Nerfing your cleric is unfair from slighting hard-earned talents and creatively lazy on his part as DM.

[Roog]

I play the cleric in my group. We already had a dedicated arcane caster, and three fighter types. I thought insted of trying to be equal to the three warriors i will focus on being the best darn healer out there. I took quite a few feats and a prestige class to help with this

My DM (who is just begining and sometimes needs help) told me in the next session that he is going to take away my ability to cast healing spells because he thinks the other people depend too much on my healing.

When i asked him why that was a bad thing he simply replied that you guys need to be in more danger, theres no danger if you just cure everybody.

I ask you forum-ites, what should i do?

Suggest to him that increasing the CR or frequency of encounters might be a better way to archive his aims.

[peloriansun]

it's no healing spells from me
I have a divine feat that lets me spend turn undead attempts to heal 1d8+1 to everyone within 60ft, and that gets to stay.

He's also allowing wands and potions.

[Serpentine]

I like how you're forum name matches this character concept, first off. :smallamused:

You should explain to the young DM that danger and risk are better expressed with the setting than in the abilities of the protagonists. Mordor wasnt a horrid place cause the ring was burdening Frodo and Sam had never been there before; it was nasty because it was full of orcs, in easy view of Sauron, and had harsh barren terrain.

Nerfing your cleric is unfair from slighting hard-earned talents and creatively lazy on his part as DM.
This sounds to me like a good place to start. Another thing to point out is that occasionally you should have an all-day slog that majorly eats up your spells. If you/your character is aware that there's a good chance you/he'll run out, then you/he will know that you/he'll have to skimp and save, maybe let some wounds go and only heal the important ones. I think that's a good way to get that sort of sense of danger... there's also the possibility of the party getting split, too.

[Zaeron]

it's no healing spells from me
I have a divine feat that lets me spend turn undead attempts to heal 1d8+1 to everyone within 60ft, and that gets to stay.

He's also allowing wands and potions.

New DMs are often intimidated by optimized characters. It may be - seems to me anyway - that he is struggling to find a way to challenge the party due to your ability to heal. Perhaps talking to him about it from the perspective of 'I understand that you're trying to make the game more difficult, but it is unfair to do so by ruining my character and taking away all the fun of playing. It is, after all, a game. If you need help challenging the party, we can all help too. We want encounters to be exciting as well.'

But to be entirely honest, in my experience, DMs stupid enough to do things like this usually aren't smart enough to admit they made a mistake. I'd view this as a warning to either leave the group or ask them to call you when the old DM resumes DMing. That or be ready to deal with issues as dumb as this one on a regular basis.

[Falrin]

There was a Rogue once. Het took feats and a PrC to focus more on his sneak attack. He became very good at sneak attacking. The DM thought this was unfair, so he rules there was no more sneak attack in his game.

There was a fighter once. He took feats and a PrC to smash things better. He could smash thing really hard. The DM thought this was unfair, so he ruled fighters could not attack anymore.

Que?

[ThorFluff]

I'd hate to break it to you, but your DM SUCKS! that's probably the Dumbest thing i've ever heard! I mean sure, the cleric class can be slightly overpowering, but that's hardly because it can heal ppl! Any intelligently played villain knocks out the healer first! If anything (which still is horribly bad DMing) he should have forbidden the Cleric as a class, not just take away all its uses.
Unless he's a really close friend or family, in which case i'd give him a good lecture on his stupidity, i'd just Leave.
If he can't even handle a player using a Core Class for its intended pupose...
How the bleeding hell is he going to handle DMing something even remotely interesting!!?!

[ranger89]

Your DM's decision is absolutely astounding! He may as well just go ahead an ban the Cleric class. Ridiculous.


Suggest to him that increasing the CR or frequency of encounters might be a better way to archive his aims.

Roog has given the correct answer to your dilemma. It's up to the DM to provide challenges to the players not weaken the abilities of the characters. Cleric healing too much? Decrease the amount of time the cleric has to rest and pray between encounters. Simple. There are so many ways for a DM to make things challenging for the players (even those with super optimized characters) that not allowing you to cast healing spells is beyond lame.

If the DM refuses to budge, I would sit out his campaign. Normally, I'd like to see disagreements at the table settled with compromises on both sides but in this case, I gotta say that the DM is just plain wrong.

[Jarlax]

i can understand where you DM is coming from, three fighters with an optimized healer in the party would be able to tank through most encounters very comfortably. for a starting DM this would appear like an unbeatable team.

that said his solution to the problem is totally unfair on you. you need to speak with him to and get your spells back. if he refuses, walk away. this is not the kind of DM you want to play with.

[Citizen Joe]

Tell the DM that you think swords are killing opponents too easy and strength bonuses to damage AND attack rolls are too overpowered thus swords and strength should be banned from the game as well.

Then go on to explain how wizards are too powerful and make the game too easy, so spells should be banned.

If he doesn't get the sarcasm from that, leave the game... he's too dense to get it.

[LordVader]

That would work very well, actually, to prove a point. Try pointing that out to him in addition to what was already suggested.

[Brother_Franklin]

If he is a new DM who needs help than you proably shouldn't have a prestige class. Basic core stuff is allready a lot to handle for a newb. PrCs aren't game breaking but they change the rules enough to require a lot of thought on the DMs part. I would just ask if you can trade those levels away to give him a break.

[Mad Wizard]

If the DM refuses to budge and you don't want to leave the game, ask him if you can switch your feats, skills, and stats around to make a different type of character. It's incredibly unfair to take away the only thing a character can do, but not as bad if he lets you completely change your character concept.

[Coffee_Dragon]

There was a Rogue once. Het took feats and a PrC to focus more on his sneak attack. He became very good at sneak attacking. The DM thought this was unfair, so he rules there was no more sneak attack in his game.

Ironically, I've read stories of this happening, pretty much. (DM ruled that only one attack in a round could be a sneak attack.) Not with the fighter, though.

[Solo]

If you can't cast healing spells.....

how do people make healing potions?

[PsyBlade]

While reading this topic, I realized how this could be explained in game. Basically something is up with the god of the cleric. A simple suggestion like this could turn this problem into a quest. The result of the quest ends up releasing stronger monsters than the teams average level. Ergo, regain healing and make monsters harder in one go.

[Raum]

Tell him you'd rather play something different if he's going to remove your primary responsibility. Or simply ask him why he's being an @**. Quite frankly, not every encounter should be walking the line between life or death for the PCs. The big ones should be, no BBEG should be a pushover. But fighting some random bandits who thought they'd get rich off of travelers should be reasonably routine.

[mostlyharmful]

If he does insist on this reduction in healing to make the combat system closer to being deadly, then be sure to ask for the NPCs to suffer the same thing. No healing for you also means no healing for them, if it's a world wide phenomena suddenly people are more cautious, diplomacy adn tactics kick in and no-one takes hp for granted. If the BBEG still has access to cure spells then the world has been editted specifically to kick your asses, which doesn't strike me as much fun.:smallfrown:

[BardicDuelist]

If he wants to make things for challenging for a Cleric, Four Fighter Types, and a Mage, whey doesn't he just put a whole lot of traps out there? Also, has he heard of Vile Damage? It is much better to nerf the ability than blatantly take it away (although I advise against doing either).

Wow, you are somone who actually wants to play the heal-bot, and play it well, and the DM complains...

[Mithhuan]

Here's some sage advice, accept it and move on. According to what you've posted your DM is just taking away your healing spells. Big deal, there are plenty of other spells a cleric can cast. You can still spend your turn attempts to use your healing feat and you can use your healing skill when the party stops to rest. So, there's still healing in the party. Your DM may have idea of something that will make the game more exciting. Give him a session to run with it. If he sees the party is going to get wiped repeatedly without your healing spells, he may change his mind.

[Orak]

If your DM is having trouble with your ability to heal then perhaps you should suggest that he change the style of the monsters. My all time favorites are ones that do stat damage.

Go stat damage.

Or perhaps not cause it sucks to play in a stat damage heavy campaign, or so my players constantly remind me.

[Ranis]

My two cents, coming from an experienced DM-if I wanted you to not heal, I would be much more creative. AKA-I could grapple you, or impair your ability to cast, what have you. Never, ever would I simply take away the primary function of a player because I thought it was making things too easy.

DM fiat rule of thumb: When in doubt about party strength, never go lower. Always higher.

[Roderick_BR]

You are a cleric, a healer type, that is not allowed to heal?
Right...

Just go CodZilla, and when he complains, you say you could just go back to healing :smallamused:

[tainsouvra]

Playing a Cleric as a pure healer is already not firing on all cylinders. Doing exactly what your DM asks is quite tempting--spend more of your spells on buffing than on healing. When you end up owning even more, the noob DM might learn something valuable...this isn't an MMO, healing isn't the end of everything.

Honestly though, if your DM is willing to accept help, point out as politely as possible that, if the players are not feeling threatened, that is entirely his fault. If the opposition isn't threatening enough, and he is in charge of the opposition, it's foolish to nerf the party to make up for his shortcomings. Naturally, you should be diplomatic with him rather than blunt as I just was, but you see my point :smallwink:

[Murderous Hobo]

I'm curious, how much of your resources are expended on each encounter?

It seems like either your DM doesn't realize how close to danger you are now as he is used to seeing the fighters HP slowly decline or he is afraid of playing around with the CR a bit and sending tougher monsters at the party.

[de-trick]

I'd say to your DM how did my cleric of pelor (just a guess) offended him by healing his comrades and letting them survive parallel journeys that no mear men could take without the healing of the cleric granted by the god of healing

[ClericofPhwarrr]

Shove a d4 up his nose.

I really like this suggestion.

[Irreverent Fool]

I don't know if he's allowing off-core books, but the D&D Miniatures handbook has a class called 'healer' which -- I feel -- if all you're going for is healing is better than a full cleric. It's more of the 'priest' or 'white mage' class. Squishy but with amazing healing powers.

It's a shame you didn't roll up one of those, no way your DM could nerf that like he did your cleric. Well, he could but it would be tantamount to telling the arcane caster he couldn't use any spell with the letter 'e' in it.

Anyhow, back on topic... I don't know how new you and your DM are to the game, but I've encountered a certain problem with healing spells with new players... they are all touch range. In a large battle this can cause some difficulty if the party is not well-organized. You're not casting them as ranged spells are you?

(I know, it's like asking if the computer is plugged in, but I want to cover all bases.)

My real suggestion is this:
Ask your DM if instead the spells can be full-round actions that also deny you your dexterity bonus to AC for that round (and of course still provoke AoO's). It reflect just how difficult it is to perform such spells in a combat setting and still limit your abilities without taking them away. He could go so far as requiring a touch attack on the subject if they are currently engaged with an enemy.

[BCOVertigo]

I'd say to your DM how did my cleric of pelor (just a guess) offended him by healing his comrades and letting them survive parallel journeys that no mear men could take without the healing of the cleric granted by the god of healing

That's just the fluff he made up do cover his decision, it isn't what needs to be discussed even if it is stupid.

I have to say I disagree with the rampaging CoDzilla strategy too. The DM is probably inexperienced and showing him that manner of ownage will just provoke another unreasonable ban. I would try to find out what about healing he finds annoying and feels 'removes the danger'.

Is it healing up to full after every encounter? Because while this is (generally) the best use of healing it doesn't make the fight itself any less deadly, it only makes you ready for the next. Another thing he might be talking about is healing mid-fight. Even a double broadsword wielding fanboi could out damage a cleric's healing so I have no idea how this could be an issue but if he just seems against the idea of it you could do things besides banning such as increasing the casting time of healing spells (maybe 5 rounds or so) so as to discourage its use in fights and put in some kind of instant stabilizing orison instead of cure minor.

[Green Bean]

Shove a d4 up his nose.

Better yet, use a d8, plus one per caster level. :smallwink:

[Proven_Paradox]

This is a newbie DM, and he's having trouble threatening players. At this point I'm thinking he needs help more than anything. Do NOT go CoDzilla, as doing so may get the cleric class banned all together. As some others have suggested, suggest to the DM to go with higher CR encounters instead. Also, remind the DM that there are other ways to keep you from healing mid-battle that don't involve a nerf like this. Someone else mentioned grappling. Also, I've found new DMs (including myself) don't utilize spells like Silence--a simple tanglefoot bag with silence casted on it means a caster is completely shut down until they scrape that crap off.

[MrNexx]

Since he's given you his reasons, I would suggest you ask him to let you remake your character. He's removed one of your primary abilities, something around which you've built your character, and so you'd feel better if he'd allow you to make a character more in line with the new rules.

IMO, playing the spoiler (messing up the game, or CoDzillaing just because he won't let you play what you designed) is a childish response to it. If he's a new DM, he'll have to run the game for a little bit until he's comfortable with the rules and how to balance encounters. Let him get things on keel with a campaign before you try to bigger **** him.

[mostlyharmful]

Or you could just agree with him, and let him run a high risk, low healing game where combat is a scary thing and getting hit in the face by a Greataxe matters towards your life-expectancy. I love the flavour of a game where high grade hospital care is about the best you can hope for, it makes risks, well, risky:smallwink:

[MrNexx]

Or you could just agree with him, and let him run a high risk, low healing game where combat is a scary thing and getting hit in the face by a Greataxe matters towards your life-expectancy. I love the flavour of a game where high grade hospital care is about the best you can hope for, it makes risks, well, risky:smallwink:

You would, I imagine, see a lot of Fighting Defensively in such a game. And using shields. And ambush tactics.

[mostlyharmful]

Like in a real battle:smallsmile:

[MountainKing]

Better yet, use a d8, plus one per caster level. :smallwink:

The irony is delicious; perhaps do it once per day equal to three plus his Charisma bonus :smallamused:

In all seriousness, there's nothing much else to suggest; I heartily second the following (already suggested) suggestions:

1.) Suggest that he try increasing the CR of your encounters, rather than simply remove a primary class ability.

2.) Suggest that he try to include enemies that use tactics that previous enemies have never used before (grapples, spells that immobilize/prevent spellcasting).

3.) Suggest he make some encounters that include things your party can't overcome easily (such as traps; I have no idea what your three tanks are composed of, but I'm literally the only person I know who has made a point of building a rogue I could tank with, so, maybe traps aren't the solution).

In any event, there's always going to be the possibility that his response to any of those suggestions will be to follow them... and target you specifically. If that happens, you'll simply have to do the worst case scenario; Swords to Plowshares the irritating 1/1 and leave the game.

[Blackbrrd]

I play the cleric in my group. We already had a dedicated arcane caster, and three fighter types. I thought insted of trying to be equal to the three warriors i will focus on being the best darn healer out there. I took quite a few feats and a prestige class to help with this

My DM (who is just begining and sometimes needs help) told me in the next session that he is going to take away my ability to cast healing spells because he thinks the other people depend too much on my healing.

When i asked him why that was a bad thing he simply replied that you guys need to be in more danger, theres no danger if you just cure everybody.

I ask you forum-ites, what should i do?

Try to explain to him that taking away primary abilities from your character will make the game less fun for you. Its kinda like taking away the fighters ability to hit stuff.

A DM should be able to modify the game like this, but its always best to do it before character creation.

Altering rules one-sided like this is something 5 to 10 year olds do all the time. Its a bullying tactic and usually ends up with one or more kids crying. It shouldn't happen in a mature game.

Personally I would agree with the DM about healing being a bit all-powerful in Dnd, at the same time, I love the game mechanics. Therefore I am going to introduce a house rule regarding healing. It shifts the balance in the game ever so slightly, but it affects all characters equally.

You can find the houserule here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2942220#post2942220

The basics of it is that the extra damage you take from critical and the damage that takes you under 0 hp is hard to heal (spells don't work). It makes just wading into combat a bit more dangerous, but not instantly so. It takes a few bad encounters to make a difference. In other words, it gives the players/characters a feeling of danger. Which is what your DM probably wants ;)

[AslanCross]

I like how you're forum name matches this character concept, first off. :smallamused:

You should explain to the young DM that danger and risk are better expressed with the setting than in the abilities of the protagonists. Mordor wasnt a horrid place cause the ring was burdening Frodo and Sam had never been there before; it was nasty because it was full of orcs, in easy view of Sauron, and had harsh barren terrain.

Nerfing your cleric is unfair from slighting hard-earned talents and creatively lazy on his part as DM.

Agreed. I'm a beginning DM myself, but I'm running a campaign with 6 PCs. The players are beginners themselves, but they got a good grasp of the rules pretty easily and are able to optimize somewhat. As such they're easily able to beat an EL 10 boss encounter (albeit with severe injuries) at Lv 5. Thus I've been not only raising hit dice, but I've been giving a lot of monsters class levels and been using ToB to give the bosses more interesting abilities.

Danger should come from the DM's creativity, not the player's weakness.

[Blackbrrd]

As AslanCross pointed out, optimized characters don't have the EL one would think. The easiest way for the DM to make encounters a bit harder is just to up one or more of the following: hp/ac/saves/to hit/damage.

In my current party of 7 characters (I am a player) our DM is regularly doubling the HP of monsters, upping to hit by +2 to +4, upping damage by 20%-50%. He hasn't done too much about saves or AC, something I would have done ;)

Its a fun game because in part because the encounters are challenging, but not too deadly.

Which reminds me, he could use odd terrain to temporarily take away your healing, for instance if you are forced to fight in a dead magic zone. (no magic works), but it shouldn't happen too often or it gets boring again.

[Kurald Galain]

Well, I'd give a suggestion at well but it's pretty much all been said already. Can you give us an update as to what happened?

[horseboy]

OOoooooooohhh , Ooohh, n00b DM has got to go! GO GO CODZILLA!:smallwink:

But no seriously, sounds like the first seeds have been planted. Talk it out with the rest of your group. Is everybody interested in making combat more dangerous/exciting or challenging? If they answer is "Yes" then you're going to have to go to a game system where combat isn't just mindlessly grinding down your opponent's hp to 0.

Sounds like he needs to check into Harn, Rolemaster, or try and rip the mechanics out of Shadowrun.

[Dairun Cates]

The irony is delicious; perhaps do it once per day equal to three plus his Charisma bonus :smallamused:

Wouldn't that suggest only doing it once per day then? Unless you didn't mean the GM.

[Fawsto]

Tell me, when you compose a damn 4 men party there are, most of times, someone to fight and soak damage, someone to use skills and obtain information, someone to blast things and someone to heal. Most of times, these roles are filled by a Fighter, a Rogue, a Wizard and a CLERIC!

The first idea someone had when the Cleric was createdwas to be healer of a party! Meaning that if you say "Cleric won't heal anymore" you are mostly saying "Cleric is Druid without nefty animal forms". Got my point?

Is this an HackN'Slash campaing? I am suposing so, cause of the 4 fighters, so in no time, if this DM want's to chalenge your group, he will kill the party 'cause of the alck of healing spells.

Post the average atributes and feats of teh characters so we can make a more precise analysis.

Btw, if you are playing 25-28 point buy campaing, the problem I stated before will pop out in no time.

[valadil]

It's never a good idea to take away a character's in game abilities after you've had a chance to play them, unless it's for a story reason.

Offer alternatives. Maybe enemies should attack the healer first. Maybe your enemies should have their own healer to balance things out. Maybe some battlefield control would keep you from casting your touch range cure spells. How about an antimagic field? What if an enemy caster countered all your cure spells? What if a persistent AoE spell life acid fog or incendiary cloud damaged everyone every turn. What if the cleric gets hit enough that he has to spend turns healing himself rather than the party.

Your DM needs to see how to impede your character in a way that makes the game more interesting rather than simply nerfs you.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

I'm guessing a remake is in order, yes. But as a monk. The ONLY thing the class is good at is staying alive, so... optimize keeping your own butt intact.

[Diggorian]

I agree with Blackbrrd's agreement with AslanCross's agreement with me ... Valadil's ideas are good too. :smallwink: Fight optimizers with optimization.

Ranger Player: "Knowledge Nature check 30, who in the hells made Owlbears anyway?"

Me: "Heh, a wizard did it."

Wizard player: "Really? Who made these extra strong 'Wild mountain' Owlbears with Improved Grapple, Uncanny dodge, Sonic damage screech, ferocity and rage?"

Me: "Er ... a paranoid wizard?" :smallamused:

[TheAntiLich]

Well, as a Cleric and fairly new DM, I know the useful abilities of a Cleric. The only reason my character wasn't butchered in my first campaign a year or so ago by our mixed group of evil/good characters was because I could heal. So, I know the worth of healing. Although Clerics are good at combat, they're not as good as fighters. Thus, banning healing cripples their use, especially if they are originally intended to be primarily healers. In essence, your own ECL has gone down, and your strength as a player has gone down. Without healing, you have to fill yet one more combat role to be of any use, buffing and casting Bestow Curse, or Inflict spells. (Bestow Curse is a favorite of mine, combined with blindness.) Although, there are better Cleric spells, those are just my two favorites. The Silence-tangle foot bag is good, as is hold-person and silence.

Like a lot of people said, going Codzilla is both bad and good. It's good if the DM is just a general jerk and does stuff like this often. You need to show him stopping you from healing won't work, and that means he needs to make more challenging encounters. I agree going Codzilla is somewhat childish though. My former Cleric was semi-Codzilla originally, and later on switched to a healing-caster assassin role. But yeah I suggest just talking it over with him, and if that fails, go Codzilla. If that fails, leave.

Anyway, good luck.

[peloriansun]

wow, my thanks for such a wealth of advice

I talked to my DM, who says that my lack of healing is going to be caused by an evil spell that takes away all of the party's strengths so that we can "work around our weakness".

I'm wondering what this does to the fighter types, remove their arms?

[Starsinger]

wow, my thanks for such a wealth of advice

I talked to my DM, who says that my lack of healing is going to be caused by an evil spell that takes away all of the party's strengths so that we can "work around our weakness".

I'm wondering what this does to the fighter types, remove their arms?

Yes... it disarms them... teehee... I made a silly

[peloriansun]

What i think he was trying to tell me was that this lack of healing is a story thing.

Hopefully that means it won't be permenant, i like being a healer.

I get to find out tomorrow in anycase

[peloriansun]

What i think he was trying to tell me was that this lack of healing is a story thing.

Hopefully that means it won't be permenant, i like being a healer.

I get to find out tomorrow in anycase

[Yahzi]

I ask you forum-ites, what should i do?

It's quite simple. Announce that your character has been Instructed By God to never heal again.

Then, never heal again.

And watch the entire party die.

:smallbiggrin:

As a cleric you can hold your own in combat, using your buffs and stuff. You'll have fun. And if you pick your spells right, you'll always be the last one standing (even without healing).

[Penguinizer]

I really like this suggestion.

You are not the only one.

[PsyBlade]

Well, looks like my suggestion is what happened. Too bad it wasn't because it was suggested.

[tainsouvra]

I talked to my DM, who says that my lack of healing is going to be caused by an evil spell that takes away all of the party's strengths so that we can "work around our weakness". Best of luck to him. That does not sound like the sort of project that a new DM should undertake, it's too likely to frustrate the players--make a character to do X, then not be allowed to do X early in the campaign, not a good formula. It can work out, though, so maybe he'll get lucky.

[Vuzzmop]

Shove a d4 up his nose.

Make it a d20.

[ThorFluff]

I'd suggest to the DM that he goes off to play another game, because if you don't like instaheal and incredibly out of whack worlds, DnD is NOT for you.

[Dervag]

I really like this suggestion.I'm not surprised.

I'm sure that Phwarrr would never strip his clerics of their powers for using them too effectively!


Best of luck to him. That does not sound like the sort of project that a new DM should undertake, it's too likely to frustrate the players--make a character to do X, then not be allowed to do X early in the campaign, not a good formula. It can work out, though, so maybe he'll get lucky.What does he intend to let the characters do if their primary strengths are gone? And is he going to take into account that a fighter who can't fight, a cleric who can't clerk, a rogue who can't rob and a wizard who doesn't whiz will be hard pressed against enemies of much lower level than their nominal party level?

[PlatinumJester]

All you people who suggest ramming d4/8/20s up the DMs nose are being stupid. I mean why waste a good dice when you could use a useless d12.

[Wraithy]

but the aim of said nose shoving changes the required dice, these are prescision instruments, not playdough. d4s, d8s, and other pointy dice can be used to torture the DM into changing the rules for you (DM:"peloriansunnot only defeats 1000 prysmatic dragons single handedly at lvl4, but also gets a cloak of infinate coolness. please stop!!")
whearas the more spherical dice can be saved for more extreme measures such as murder, two plugs is enough.
on the third hand (recently installed), you can take the advice of the sane people who posted earlier, their advice is probably the best thing to do

[Tengu]

Exactly. I suggested d4 because it's the most pointy die.