Skill proficiencies

[ZorroGames]

If your class and your background gives you a choice of the same skill does it increase your use of the skill?

Gracias in advance.

[mgshamster]

No. It makes it so you can pick a different skill.

Page 125, phb.

[Naanomi]

Same with skills from races (you get to repick) but not explicitly skills gained as you level up from class features (like disguise Proficiency from assassin subclass and the like), though many GMs would allow it anyways

[DivisibleByZero]

Choosing a background with skills that are also on your class list (or a race that does the same) is a great way for you to get a skill that you'd otherwise not be able to get at creation.

Example: Want Acrobatics for your Elven Outlander Ranger?
The Ranger's skill list is rather focused, and it does not include Acrobatics. Outlander doesn't provide Acro either. But Elves get proficiency in Perception as a racial feature. Take Perception as a Ranger, and you already have it, so you can take any other skill you want to replace it.
(or do the same with Athletics or Survival from both BG and class)
Boom, Elven Outlander Ranger with Acrobatics.

Incidentally, this method is the easiest way to get Perception on a Race/BG/Class combo that wouldn't normally get it, and as Perception is considered by many to be one of the most important skills in the game this is where you'll see the most use for this method.

[KorvinStarmast]

Choosing a background with skills that are also on your class list (or a race that does the same) is a great way for you to get a skill that you'd otherwise not be able to get at creation.

Example: Want Acrobatics for your Elven Outlander Ranger?
The Ranger's skill list is rather focused, and it does not include Acrobatics. Outlander doesn't provide Acro either. But Elves get proficiency in Perception as a racial feature. Take Perception as a Ranger, and you already have it, so you can take any other skill you want to replace it.
Boom, Elven Outlander Ranger with Acrobatics.
Proposed Ranger name: Tarzan.
Schtick: Swings through the trees.

[ZorroGames]

Proposed Ranger name: Tarzan.
Schtick: Swings through the trees.

I love that!

[coolAlias]

Note also that it is written directly in the PHB rules that you are free to customize your Background, so if you don't see a background with exactly the skills or tools/languages that you want, you can change them to whatever you want RAW.

RAW you can make a completely custom background:
- Choose any 2 skill proficiencies
- Choose any 2 tool proficiencies or languages, or 1 of each
- Choose any existing background feature OR work with your DM to create a custom one
- Choose any existing background's starting equipment

Now, if your DM has a very specific setting with specific backgrounds, they might decide that this is no longer the case, but that's a pretty big change from the default.

[Vogonjeltz]

Same with skills from races (you get to repick) but not explicitly skills gained as you level up from class features (like disguise Proficiency from assassin subclass and the like), though many GMs would allow it anyways

Bearing in mind that order of operations in character creation is:

1) Choose a Race, 2) Choose a Class, 4) Describe Your Character (which includes selection of a background).

As the class proficiencies are chosen from a wide list they can't be duplicative of anything from Race. Therefore only the Profession proficiencies can be changed (it's worth noting that, although the information indicating a duplicate allows a different of the same type to be chosen, that information is only included in the Background chapter, not the Class or Race sections, suggesting it only applies to duplication caused by Background.

There aren't (insofar as I'm aware) combinations where a duplication is necessarily forced from Class.

i.e. Half-Orc gets intimidation, Barbarian allows them to select from a list that includes Intimidation, but since they already have it, they don't now get to select any proficiency. They just have to choose from the other valid options.

Only if they also select a background that duplicates a proficiency from race/class do they get to swap the background proficiency for another. I'd probably give broad latitude, but trying to get any skill when there's some overlap between skill options sounds more like an attempt to game the system somehow.


Choosing a background with skills that are also on your class list (or a race that does the same) is a great way for you to get a skill that you'd otherwise not be able to get at creation.

Example: Want Acrobatics for your Elven Outlander Ranger?
The Ranger's skill list is rather focused, and it does not include Acrobatics. Outlander doesn't provide Acro either. But Elves get proficiency in Perception as a racial feature. Take Perception as a Ranger, and you already have it, so you can take any other skill you want to replace it.
Boom, Elven Outlander Ranger with Acrobatics.

Doesn't work.
1) Race is chosen first, not Class, and the selection isn't forced, it's a list of options, which is now one smaller.
2) The chance to select a different skill proficiency is specific to the Background chapter and found no where else. It comes into effect if you select a background that has proficiency overlap with your already selected Race or Class proficiencies.

Besides, acquiring Strength or Dexterity-based skills is inadvisable for a Ranger, they get a larger benefit selecting proficiencies that key off wisdom/intelligence thanks to their 1st level class feature. Better to take Perception, Survival, Investigation, Insight, Nature, etcetera for that expertise in the wilderness.

[Naanomi]

I meant skills or the like you get *after* character creation... like your rogue/Charlatan who gets a duplicate disguise kit Proficiency when he becomes an Assassin at level 3

[Christian]

Here's one I've been pondering: what if your class and background give overlapping tool proficiencies in a tool type with multiple choices? Eg. a Monk with the Guild Artisan background, or a Bard with the Entertainer background. Are they forced to choose a second type of artisan's tools/fourth type of instrument, or is that an instance that trigger's the 'choose a different proficiency of the same kind' language?

[DivisibleByZero]

Bearing in mind that order of operations in character creation is:

1) Choose a Race, 2) Choose a Class, 4) Describe Your Character (which includes selection of a background).

As the class proficiencies are chosen from a wide list they can't be duplicative of anything from Race. Therefore only the Profession proficiencies can be changed (it's worth noting that, although the information indicating a duplicate allows a different of the same type to be chosen, that information is only included in the Background chapter, not the Class or Race sections, suggesting it only applies to duplication caused by Background.

There aren't (insofar as I'm aware) combinations where a duplication is necessarily forced from Class.

i.e. Half-Orc gets intimidation, Barbarian allows them to select from a list that includes Intimidation, but since they already have it, they don't now get to select any proficiency. They just have to choose from the other valid options.

Only if they also select a background that duplicates a proficiency from race/class do they get to swap the background proficiency for another. I'd probably give broad latitude, but trying to get any skill when there's some overlap between skill options sounds more like an attempt to game the system somehow.



Doesn't work.
1) Race is chosen first, not Class, and the selection isn't forced, it's a list of options, which is now one smaller.
2) The chance to select a different skill proficiency is specific to the Background chapter and found no where else. It comes into effect if you select a background that has proficiency overlap with your already selected Race or Class proficiencies.

Besides, acquiring Strength or Dexterity-based skills is inadvisable for a Ranger, they get a larger benefit selecting proficiencies that key off wisdom/intelligence thanks to their 1st level class feature. Better to take Perception, Survival, Investigation, Insight, Nature, etcetera for that expertise in the wilderness.

It doesn't work because your list is now one smaller?
Citation needed.

[Vogonjeltz]

Citation needed.

Actually it's the lack of citation allowing it that is the issue.

Race is selected, in very specific cases that may include a forced proficiency (Elf, Half-Orc)

Class is then selected which allows a spectrum of options. Why would a player be allowed to select the proficiency they already have and have that become a wild card when there are other legal alternatives?

Then it becomes: Elf or Half-Orc Barbarians, Fighters, Rogues; Elf Druids and Rangers; and Half-Orc Paladins, Sorcerers, and Warlocks can select any skill.

Whereas Elf and Half-Orc Clerics, Monks, and Wizards are limited to just their racial + their class list.

What? That interaction makes no sense. There's no point limiting the class selection of proficiencies to a subset if simply being an Elf or Orc lets you bypass that entirely.

Backgrounds get an exception at their step because it would otherwise lock out a large number of combination as sub-optimal. Not having that exception at the class stage on the other hand is entirely reasonable as nothing prevents the character from selecting amongst the remaining options.

[DivisibleByZero]

You're making things up to fix what you perceive to be an imbalance.
If you have a proficiency, and you gain that danger proficiency again, whether by choice or assignment from another creator, got choose another proficiency of the same kind, with no restrictions.

[coolAlias]

Backgrounds get an exception
I recall this specifically being clarified somewhere (maybe Twitter), but even if not, the PHB was written in a way to minimize redundancy; thus, general rules found in any section apply to all sections.

Per PHB 125:
"If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead."

Nowhere does that specify applying only to proficiencies gained from backgrounds - exactly the opposite, in fact.