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View Full Version : Do you allow 3rd party content? Why or why not?



DRD1812
2017-06-23, 11:37 AM
I do a bit of design work myself (Pathfinder and 5e), so this is a pressing question for me. I've got a comic up (http://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/unbalanced) on the subject this morning, and I genuinely want to know. If you don't use 3rd party content, what turned you off from it? If you do, what makes 3rd party stuff worthwhile for you?

Magic Myrmidon
2017-06-23, 11:58 AM
It's actually just never come up for me. I used to be iffy on it, but nowadays, I'm all for it as long as the player checks with me first so I can look it over. Most of the time, though, I'm shocked if players know the core, first party stuff. A player going on their own to research even more third party stuff would probably give me a heart attack.

Kallimakus
2017-06-23, 01:31 PM
It depends on what it is. I run Pathfinder, and on my current campaign I use Spheres of Power 3rd party system, and remain open to some other content. I don't want Path of War or Psionics, nor anything else from the same publisher (something I feel the forums disagree with me on), but that is because I find it unbalanced in comparison to any other martial classes (and most monsters, a fact that fails it for me).

I like it when 3rd party material is either thematically appropriate and cool, perhaps filling some niche or adding an option that was missing, but more importantly I'd like it to be balanced. And that runs into the problem that the core game is far from balanced in the first place. But I have My own preference, and I stick by it. Content that is on par is fine, rest isn't.

EccentricCircle
2017-06-23, 01:46 PM
I think the problem with 3rd party material is that there is so much of it that it is hard to keep track of what is what. It is far less likely that everyone around the table will be familiar with a 3rd party book than a core one. I tend to use 3rd party bestiaries quite a lot, and will occasionally break out another sourcebook which thematically fits the game. However beyond this the majority of the books on my 3rd party shelf don't get used nearly as much as I hoped when I bought them.

I think the problem is that most players come to the table with an idea of what they want to play, and how they want to play it, but their research is always going to be focused on the core books, as those are the ones many of us have, and which dubious pdfs circulate through many a gaming group. New players are the only ones who need me to direct them to stuff, and I generally direct them to the simpler options rather than the more unusual ones.

My basic rule is "Habeus Librum" if you can produce the book, so that I can check it then it will be considered. I can't remember ever ruling something out as a result of this process, but as I say it very rarely happens.

FreddyNoNose
2017-06-23, 01:54 PM
I do a bit of design work myself (Pathfinder and 5e), so this is a pressing question for me. I've got a comic up (http://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/unbalanced) on the subject this morning, and I genuinely want to know. If you don't use 3rd party content, what turned you off from it? If you do, what makes 3rd party stuff worthwhile for you?

Do you mean do we only use that which we created with the possible exception of the rule books (DMG, PH, MM, et al)?

Some third party content is useful and I don't mean just modules. Take Judges Guild for example:
Book of Ruins
Book of Treasure Maps I
Castle Book I
Castle Book II
Island Book I
Temple Book I
Village Book I
Village Book II

Some might say they are horrible or too old school or not up to modern "standards". That might be true, but they are useful.

Knaight
2017-06-23, 02:03 PM
I don't play D&D, so I generally wouldn't use the term 3rd Party - the whole network of sizeable companies producing professionally polished homebrew doesn't exist to nearly the same level outside of D&D, and when it does it tends to be complete games made on an engine (e.g. Wild Talents and Diaspora). With that said, I do use a big bundle of homebrew, and while most of it is mine I have no opposition to players requesting homebrew mechanics made by someone else.

Scripten
2017-06-23, 02:09 PM
I run 5E and I tend not to allow third party content for the most part.

Generally, this is because 5E is already a fairly open system with a lot of variability in how mechanics are represented. The core classes and races provide a fairly wide range of options and can be refluffed without too much trouble. If someone has a concept they want to present to me, I sometimes will take a look and allow it in on a case-by-case basis. Never really let it become a precedent though.

Yora
2017-06-23, 02:31 PM
As a GM, I don't allow. I chose. The games I run are coblled together from different sources and held together with my own creations, but I am usually very reluctant to add any additional content to the campaigns, regardless of their source. I once let a player take a feat from some WotC book in a third edition game, but that's the only thing I remember.

Grod_The_Giant
2017-06-23, 02:54 PM
It's never come up, but I'd take a look if someone asked. Same principle as anything I don't recognize: read it myself, see what people have to say about it online*, and possibly make tweaks if it doesn't look right.



*That's the big advantage of homebrew off a site like this one; the homebrew board here tends to be really good at giving useful feedback, which both improves the overall quality and makes it easy to find problem spots.

Magic Myrmidon
2017-06-23, 04:37 PM
By the way, I've been enjoying that comic you linked to. Good stuff. I like the musings after each one, too.

DRD1812
2017-06-23, 05:53 PM
By the way, I've been enjoying that comic you linked to. Good stuff. I like the musings after each one, too.

Thanks, man! It's like having my own personal mini-forum twice a week.

Seems like we're pretty much of the same mind on the third party stuff. All I ask is for a heads up before you bring it in. If you're in love with the flavor and it strikes me as unbalanced, we can always tweak something.

Dr_Dinosaur
2017-06-23, 06:42 PM
Spheres of Power/Drop Dead Studios, Dreamscarred Press, and Ascension Games are all but core at my table. I took the route of buffing core martials to match DSP's stuff rather than banning the more balanced options.

Other 3rd Party? I require that it be brought to me for review ahead of time. One too many people trying to slip their own custom races in

Telonius
2017-06-23, 11:26 PM
I typically DM in a 3.5-ish environment (plus a bunch of houserules).

Third party content can vary insanely in terms of power and balance. If a player wants to use something third party, I'll take a close look at it. If it seems like it would fit, I'll put it in. If it can help a player put their concept into practice, I'm much more likely to approve it. I've allowed a player to be an Earthbender from the Avatar d20 project before. As DM, I've sent the party against monsters from Bastards and Bloodlines.

oxybe
2017-06-24, 01:10 AM
Let me read it first and i'll say yay or nay.

Same as I do with anything, be it your character concept, a spell or a magic item.

bulbaquil
2017-06-24, 07:23 AM
Spheres of Power is generally allowed, sometimes even at the expense of disallowing the core magic system in favor of it.

Dreamscarred Press may or may not be allowed, depending on the game.

Other 3rd party material is generally banned. 3.5e material counts as 3rd party in a Pathfinder game. I will consider case-by-case exceptions if:
1. The material makes sense in the setting and theme of the game
2. The material fits the intended power level of the game
3. The material is easily accessible and easy to understand.

Lemmy
2017-06-24, 01:48 PM
Yes. As well as homebrew. Hell! I'll even help the player create his own homebrew!

But just like most splat books, I do not concede blanket permission... I take a look at the stuff and judge whether it's balanced and appropriate for the game... That said, I'm quite permissive. It's pretty rare for me not to allow at least a trial game.

Mastikator
2017-06-24, 03:01 PM
I'd have to look it over, make sure it fits into the campaign setting. There are infrastructure issues that need to be taken into account.

Torrin
2017-06-24, 03:53 PM
I run and play 5th edition. My group tends to allow 3rd party, homebrew, or UA material if it fits with the theme of the game, and several of our games actually ban core material if it doesn't fit with the world in favor of UA, 3rd party, or homebrewed stuff. (A darker setting of mine has Matt Mercer's Blood Hunter, but no Wizards.)

Esprit15
2017-06-24, 03:54 PM
IRL, as long as they run it by me and show the source, I'm normally fine with it. If I'm DMing a game, I can always just up the challenge.

icefractal
2017-06-25, 04:15 AM
Some of it. I've always allowed DSP Psionics, and tend to use them myself also. Path of War I've read and would be allowed if anyone asks for it. Probably Spheres of Power too, but I haven't read it yet and nobody's asked for it.

As far as other 3PP stuff that I'm not familiar with and doesn't have lots of people vouching for it, I treat it like homebrew. Which means I look at it, see whether it looks reasonably balanced, suggest changes if not, rinse and repeat. As a time-saver when doing this, keep in mind that you only need to balance the levels your campaign will be covering.

I do need ongoing access to the source though. Preferably it's on the d20pfsrd, but definitely not something like a physical book that I only have access to during the gaming session.

Anonymouswizard
2017-06-25, 05:04 AM
I don't run D&D out Pathfinder, which means I'm lucky if someone else owns the core rulebook (has happened twice, both times when I was a player, once for GURPS and once for M&M). For this reason I tend to be conservative on first party content, especially if a corebook gives a variety of options, so third party really gets looked at, although I'm more open to homebrew (that is either noncommercial or DMsGuild style stuff) if a player is willing to work with me to balance it.

Would I allow it if a player asked? Maybe. It depends on the theme of the game and whether the content fits, the same as a first party book. Might do some rebalancing before allowing it in, depending on if it's game breaking.

BWR
2017-06-25, 08:24 AM
I'm less open to things now than I used to be, but I don't think I've ever entirely ruled stuff out soley on the basis of who published it.
For PF, which is pretty much the only stuff I run these days, apart from Laundry Files, I prefer to keep things to 1st party only. Due to the large amount of stuff they put out this is generally not a problem except when one player uses the d20pfsrd to search for interesting things and doesn't bother to check where they're from. Still, if there is something a player really really wants to try and it doesn't conflict with the setting or party, I'm generally open to exceptions,

MrNobody
2017-06-25, 10:19 AM
I usually play d&d 3.5 and pathfinder, two games that have TONS of first party material on their own so, both as DM and player, i don't usually allow third party material: if comes up a particular need, i prefer tring to solve it with original material or a little homebrew.

There have been cases, however, when i allowed /asked to be allowed to use third party material, and it always was for roleplaying and not for optimization.

I remember a game in which my group was going to face an obscure force that could have destroyed the world: knowing that he could have died, my cleric married, wrote down a lot of notes about the ancestral mission of his own familiy, gave tons of gold to his wife... and i asked the dm for.being allowed to use a spell from the "book of erotic fantasy" that allows you to certainly have a child after a night of love, and having it be an half-celestial.

If the cleric Should have died, there would have been someone to continue his mission.

hymer
2017-06-25, 11:09 AM
If you don't use 3rd party content, what turned you off from it? If you do, what makes 3rd party stuff worthwhile for you?

I use little third party stuff, though I have bought seven or so third party books for 5e. I use them to snatch good ideas and seek inspiration. I very rarely use anything out of a third party book as DM.
As for players using third party stuff, I generally discourage it, but I'll allow things on a case by case basis. Usually that comes with the caveat that if I find it bothersome in any way, it will get yanked.

In general, I prefer my own homebrew to that of others. It's free, and I can adjust it and shape it just so to fit my campaign and my table.

Jay R
2017-06-25, 12:00 PM
[Disclaimer: I started playing in 1975, with original D&D. My opinions were shaped decades ago, in a very different gaming climate. I do not suggest that my approach is what all DMs, or even most DMs, should do. Play your way, and I'll play mine, and I hope you love your games played your way. But we are asked for our opinions, and here are mine.]

First of all, I don't even allow all first party content. I don't include psionics, and anything from a splatbook is suspect.

Secondly, something from a third party is presumed guilty until proven innocent.

But mostly, I discourage the idea that a player should have a single perfect character conception, and playing anything else is somehow "no fun".

We can have a really fun game with only core rules, and not all of them. We can have a really fun game in which all characters start off in a small isolated village, with no knowledge of the outside world, and no skill you can't learn in a small village. I can enjoy playing any kind of character, and when I join a group, my first question is, "What does the party need?"

The notion that a player should play the exact character he or she wants sounds very noble, but it has led to far more disappointed players than you ever get in a game with clearly marked boundaries.

Again, have fun playing your way, while I have fun playing my way. This is the description of my way, with some explanation of why I choose to play that way.

obryn
2017-06-25, 02:15 PM
I've been lukewarm over the years, but the Zeitgeist adventure path for 4e has some great player-side stuff that's been working out great.

flond
2017-06-25, 04:31 PM
I can answer this from the non-DnD contingent!

For PbtA (the meta-system that does have a fair amount of 3rd party content) the answer is..."Let me look at it, but probably!" I've allowed and played a lot of fan skins/playbooks/etc! But I want to see it first. And I might say no! But...usually I'm down for it.

genderlich
2017-06-25, 04:44 PM
I do a bit of Pathfinder design work myself (I have a hardcover coming out soon!) and as long as I have a chance to look over the material first and it's from a reputable source I certainly allow it in my games. Favorites include Time Thief, Swordmaster, Nightblade, and Trickster classes.

stack
2017-06-25, 04:53 PM
I don't run much at all, but if I ran and when I play I tend toward 3pp pathfinder to the exclusion of 1pp material.

Full disclosure: I do a bit of freelance 3pp writing, for Spheres of Power and the upcoming Spheres of Might.

wait... what?
2017-06-25, 09:30 PM
I generally do not. This is mainly due to some zany character concepts that can appear during the game. However, one of the classes I really like that has come from a third party company for Pathfinder is the Ultimate Commoner. Such an awesome concept, it can be used to create a character concept that doesn't fit any other class.

Plus, it actually is just as powerful as a regular PC class. Not underpowered or overpowered at all.

Dragonexx
2017-06-25, 09:59 PM
Basically yes. I use a lot of homebrew material in my games (and have written a lot as my signature shows). I haven't really taken a look at a lot of the homebrew like DSP and spheres of power looks to be broken.

I need to approve it's use first, of course, but I'm pretty leiniant. It's not that hard to adjust the challenges if it seems problematic.

Mutazoia
2017-06-26, 12:15 AM
As a general rule, I am VERY picky when it comes to 3rd party content, as a lot of it can be broken quite easily...just look at some of the past postings on this board to see just how easily some builds can go extreme OP quite quickly.

I have yet to see any 3rd party stuff that was created with anything but itself in mind. When it is combined with other 3rd party stuff, or even the right (wrong) core stuff, there can be power implications that pop up unexpectedly in a campaign.

To that end, I tend to fully read any 3rd party material before deciding to allow it in my games, and even then, I'll usually house-rule the shine-ola out of it if I see any potential problems. I never allow 3rd party material I haven't read. Ever. And I veto a lot of stuff I have.

stack
2017-06-26, 08:15 PM
A lot of first party material appears not to be written with first party material in mind, as far as 3.pf goes, so any flaws in that regard are hardly unique to 3pp.

End of the day, you need to know what is in play and either stop problematic interactions or play with people who won't try to sneak broken combos in. The systems get too big to account for every possible interaction even for the best meaning authors.

overlordseamus
2017-06-27, 07:29 PM
Depends on the material.
As a general rule, no.
Reason? 1001 spells.
Worst decision ever.

90sMusic
2017-07-01, 04:45 AM
I always specify before a game begins that 3rd party and homebrew content will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

First I check to see if their race or class actually makes sense within the world. I despise character concepts like playing fallen gods/demigods, playing robots or cyborgs or anything technological in a fantasy realm, playing aliens, and so on.

If the race and class seem like something that is plausible for the setting, i'll go deeper and evaluate what the race or class can actually do and determine if I think it is balanced or too strong.

I also don't like classes or races that introduce new rules or complex mechanics because it'll be something you have to frequently refer back to and read up on. The less deviation from what is normal the better.

I make up new races and classes (and combinations) far more often than allowing stuff made by other people. Ideas that would be crazy in some settings just make more sense in certain stories/settings. For instance I had one player who was a unicorn, which was really fun, I made a succubus character I use for NPCs that I allow players to use with the same rules and advancement, and even a playable (young) dragon that I modified as not to be more powerful than the other players.

Sometimes it's fun to do new and different things, but i've always found its better to make it yourself to ensure it will fit appropriately and not get too powerful or out of whack.

Quertus
2017-07-01, 05:36 AM
Back in 2e D&D, I was not alone in making a lot of homebrew. Heck, half the modules included something never before seen, too. And my signature character Quertus, for whom this account is named, has invented more custom spells than there are published spells. :smallcool: So my motto was simple: I'll allow anything I understand - and, if I don't understand it, explain it to me.

Of course, the only reason I wanted to understand it ahead of time was because, unlike me, most of the people I game with don't enjoy stopping the game for a 4-hour rules debate. :smallconfused: Well, that, and the not entirely unrelated desire to understand any interactions between various homebrew - if this item only affects X, are you an X?

This motto was fueled in part by the complete and utter lack of balance in earlier editions. Once 3e D&D came around, with its CR system, WBL, and pretense of game balance, I grew a little pickier on what I allowed in. Oh, the irony*. :smallredface:

From this, it's easy to guess how I'll respond in other systems: if the game has at least a pretense of game balance, I'll honor that pretense. If not, then anything's fair game.

* yes, I know that's not the correct usage of the word.

Pugwampy
2017-07-01, 10:11 AM
I have no problem with players looking for cool options outside the official rules .

One cool reason is that I can to use it too . Missile Storm Spell from Neverwinter Nights game yay !!!

Jay R
2017-07-01, 10:45 AM
Before I allow any 3rd party content, or even some splatbook content, the player needs to come up with a compelling argument that the basic game is not fun enough without it.

Me, I actually like D&D. I don't need to change it to enjoy playing.


[But I started with "roll 3d6 6 times in order, and then play a Fighting Man (sic), Magic-User, or Cleric". The Thief and Paladin were added on in a supplement. The idea of as many options as modern D&D has seems ... unnecessary.]

Cluedrew
2017-07-01, 01:52 PM
I play home-brew systems so... yes, because everything is 3rd party content at that point. Well generally there is just one person that is actually creating the content, but we will absorb bits of ideas and inspiration from everyone else which may work its way into the system and setting.


* yes, I know that's not the correct usage of the word.The irony.

TheFurith
2017-07-02, 09:12 PM
It depends on what it is. If they want to use a race, almost certainly not. It's never going to fit the setting if there's just one person of one race. If it's a class, possibly, if it doesn't create new mechanics that nobody knows. If it's a feat probably, as long as it isn't something obviously overpowered. As far as spell almost certainly, because there's already a core spell to break every part of the game anyway so what's the difference?

I'd apply those first two to first part material as well though, so that's nothing against third party. Some third party stuff is actually written by people who previous worked on first party stuff anyway.

Pugwampy
2017-07-03, 09:44 AM
There is a ton of cool stuff created by enthusiasts who roll with Dice Gods 24/7 in their minds when not playing for real .

On the other hand the official brand stuff are made by underpaid wage slaves who tolerate nothing DND after 5 PM .

How is using 3rd party content any different to DM,s making up a new rule because the handbook,s advice is too much admin , non existent or just plain stupid .

Mutazoia
2017-07-03, 09:54 PM
How is using 3rd party content any different to DM,s making up a new rule because the handbook,s advice is too much admin , non existent or just plain stupid .

Because a DM knows what he/she is putting into the game, and has made the call that said new rule will make said game easier, or better in some way.

3rd party content is some one else creating a lot of stuff that is designed with no other material in mind, and often causes unintended (or intended, if the designer is a jerkwad) power interactions, when mixed with other material (even core), up to and including totally breaking one or more aspects of the game. Allowing said material into your game, in part or in it's entirety, with out knowing how every bit of it can interact with every other bit of material in your game, leaves you wide open for headaches galore. The more 3rd party stuff you allow, the greater potential you have for your game going completely FUBAR.

Christopher K.
2017-07-03, 10:20 PM
I'd say a yes with an asterisk. Like Mutazoia mentioned, it's nearly impossible for a third party designer to write their content with everything else in mind. When I write, I don't consider third party content except for whether another source includes the content in question(if I like how that source covers what I'm aiming to discuss, I move on).

That in mind, I have a house rule which serves me well at my table: PHB + 1 book, and requiring the player to bring the character to me long enough before the game that I can read the character sheet and ask the player any questions I have about the build. This also takes care of a lot of the power creep and craziness that 4e had, what with the Character Builder having access to every book WotC was pushing out so quickly.

Psikerlord
2017-07-03, 11:22 PM
For 5e the thing I've found with 3rd party material is... you usually simply dont need it from the player's side. Whatever the core books have it is usually plenty to choose from. Indeed, quite possibly too much already. Is there really a good reason to add more complexity to it from the player side? There's already something like 30 subclasses available, plus feats.

On the other hand, I love custom feats, but that's easily done between me and the player.

From the GM side, happy to change rules and use 3rd party stuff like crit decks, plot twist cards, etc - but it's all subject to GM revision/tweaking.

Glorthindel
2017-07-04, 06:54 AM
Generally no to 3rd party, no to homebrew*, and usually no to any official splatbook I haven't personally brought to the table.

Ultimately it is down to opening the floodgates. Once you allow one thing (be it perfectly balanced, and completely fine), it will provoke people to bring their own things, and that can turn ugly very quickly if you say no later (to a completely insanely imbalanced option) because the player can (and often will) cry foul and favouritism. By applying a blanket ban, yes, a few cool options will get caught that could have been added safely, but it is worth it to save the hassle and aggro that opening the floodgates can bring.

*the exception here is homebrew created between me and the player. Homebrew brought from a website, forget it, I'm not taking on the barrel of outrageous bull**** that comes with that, but I will happily sit down with every player and craft something unique if that is what they want.

Melcar
2017-07-04, 07:05 AM
I do a bit of design work myself (Pathfinder and 5e), so this is a pressing question for me. I've got a comic up (http://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/unbalanced) on the subject this morning, and I genuinely want to know. If you don't use 3rd party content, what turned you off from it? If you do, what makes 3rd party stuff worthwhile for you?

I use it, when it makes sense compared to the concept I'm trying to build or when it adds some cool fitting fluff. I also use it, when it adds to the build in terms of power, but again only if it fits the build. If I'm trying to build a dwarven tank, and there's a PrC in Quintessential Fighter that adds AC or DR or the ability to use two shields I might ad that to my dwarven defender, likewise when there are nice social feats to add to my ambassador or spy I pick them out instead of or maybe in addition to skill focus (diplomacy).

I think there are a lot of cool things hidden in 3rd party. Both classes, feats and spells... while some are crap, I would ague that quite a bit of the official D&D 3.X content is crap too. Monk and Truenamer classes, Toughness and Combat Casting feats to just name a few...

So yes I use it, when ever it add some element that fits the build I'm trying to create and/or when it adds flavor in terms of fluff or abilities that I find cool or useful. I use it mostly when trying to go down some form of specialization which is not adequately covered by official content.

So in short; yes I gladly use 3rd party!

Pugwampy
2017-07-04, 09:50 AM
The more 3rd party stuff you allow, the greater potential you have for your game going completely FUBAR.


All games go FUBAR eventually dude. But until then you are having a blast with your unbalanced nonsense .

Treat every game like its your last one ever .

Ninja-Radish
2017-07-04, 02:38 PM
As a DM, I told my group no 3rd party material allowed when we started our campaign. Later on I realized that WOTC partners with 3rd party publishers on most of their 5E books, it seems.

If I had to do it over again, I'd allow material specifically from Kobold Press, Green Ronin, and other publishers that have worked with WOTC on 5E books. However, I still wouldn't allow homebrew stuff from DM's Guild and the like.

Sewercop
2017-07-04, 03:42 PM
I tend to dislike Homebrew, 3 party, etc. Main reason is that most that brings that to the table are most often players who never got a grasp
on the mechanical side of the games anyhow. They just search for what they want to play and try to get it to the table. Not even for a second
considering what impact the mechanics have on the gameworld or or other characters.

That said, most of it sucks bad. I like punk music,rock etc but tell me that every band is good and ill laugh in your face.

In many games, the fact you bring homebrew to the table often means you didnt look up anything at all gamewise, just searched for what you wanted.

I dont like it, because most, almost all suck bad when implemented in a group.

Solauren
2017-07-04, 04:03 PM
3.5/Pathfinder game: Yeah, I do. (Pathfinder is the core rules, Psionics is Dreamscarred with some case by case for classes, Wizards of the Coast is supplementary/setting specific, other books is case by case)

I have to have looked at it first, and if it doesn't work out, either we tweak it, or....

Character must be re-tooled to not include it (i.e classes, feats)
Magic items, spells, etc stop working (an a quick consultation by the local cleric with their god will reveal why "We wanted to see how it worked, we didn't like it, so we banned it. We're Gods after all..."

Usually, it's just some tweaking to let it work.

i.e Chronomancy based spells from Mongoose Publishing's 'Encyclopedia Arcane: Chronomancy' rrequire our house brewed 'Chronomancer' feat.
(it also catches other sources Chronomancy spells right now.)
i.e the Legendary Prestige classes from Fantasy Flight Games 'Path of' series require a minimum character level.

i.e 'Practiced Caster' can only be taken every 6 character levels, and requires at least 1 level of increase over last time it was taken. (Had someone use that to get a character with 1 level of Psion, followed by 19 levels of Swordsage, taking Practiced Caster at level 5, 9, 13, 17 to have character with the powers of a Psion 18, Swordsage 19 at 20th level.)


Also, I have a spreadsheet based on the system in Mongoose Publishings 'Quintessential Wizard II' for 3.5 that, with a little tweaking to the system, lets me rebalance spells nicely.
(also works wonders for converting pre-3e spells).

Fortunately, most 3.X/3.5 3rd party books line up with Pathfinders relative power increase (as compared to 3.X/3.5) so it's rarely an issue.

Sewercop
2017-07-04, 04:16 PM
i.e 'Practiced Caster' can only be taken every 6 character levels, and requires at least 1 level of increase over last time it was taken. (Had someone use that to get a character with 1 level of Psion, followed by 19 levels of Swordsage, taking Practiced Caster at level 5, 9, 13, 17 to have character with the powers of a Psion 18, Swordsage 19 at 20th level.)



By reading the feat you wouldnt need to homebrew it. This is my stance on homebrew, how can you expect people to bring credible things to the table when
they dont understand basics.

Mutazoia
2017-07-04, 06:58 PM
As a DM, I told my group no 3rd party material allowed when we started our campaign. Later on I realized that WOTC partners with 3rd party publishers on most of their 5E books, it seems.

If I had to do it over again, I'd allow material specifically from Kobold Press, Green Ronin, and other publishers that have worked with WOTC on 5E books. However, I still wouldn't allow homebrew stuff from DM's Guild and the like.

Just because a 3rd party publisher has "worked with WOTC", doesn't mean that their stuff is automatically ballanced to work with the core and/or other 3rd party stuff....

Ninja-Radish
2017-07-05, 04:42 PM
Just because a 3rd party publisher has "worked with WOTC", doesn't mean that their stuff is automatically ballanced to work with the core and/or other 3rd party stuff....

Well, it seems like most of the 5E books have third party publishers credited in them. So, if WOTC is now basically contracting out alot of their products to other publishers, can they really be considered "third party" anymore?

tomandtish
2017-07-05, 11:39 PM
Generally no, and Mutazoia and Christopher K hit on the key point.

You're doing well if third party content is balanced* with core. It usually isn't balanced with supplemental material WoTC has put out, and especially not with other 3rd party material.

Heck, even WotC can't really balance their supplemental materials with each other.

*Balanced being a highly subjective term that usually fails miserably anyway.

Kane0
2017-07-06, 12:53 AM
Yeah I'm pretty lenient. I play mostly 5e now but i've done my fair share of 3.PF homebrew as well.

I think that lenience comes from an ability to roll up my sleeves and dig into the content to judge it for myself, which requires a certain amount of time and system mastery. Those with less of either (or both) are usually less willing to allow custom material unless they have someone they trust to do it for them (which is me in my current group).

RPGs are something that is made greater by creativity. Sometimes that can take away some of the fun but most of the time it adds to it, and I don't like to let a few bad eggs spoil everything. Plus there is some truly fantastic stuff out there, in the same way that some games have tons of awesome mods. It doesn't hurt to try.