Fighter Handbook Anyone?

[AnimeTheCat]

Just a quick query, does anybody know of a completed Fighter Hanbook? I've searched on this forum as well as all over google, bing, etc. and All I can find is a 4e, 5e, and the very rough beginnings of a 3.5e that has been abandoned. Anyone got any leads?

[Geigan]

Dictuum Mortuum has a handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-fighters-handbook-general.html) for everything.

This (http://rpgbot.net/dnd35/characters/classes/fighter/) is what came up on a cursory google search otherwise.

If you're familiar with Pathfinder, I personally appreciate Nightbringer's Guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q5l2KQRI55azlsLrVS4QfZ-4UWUxmKtgQYesvnWueis/edit). WIP as it is, it still covers a lot.

3.5 Fighter unfortunately doesn't have a lot of meat on its bones as a class, so the advice is generally pretty limited. More general advice tends to be a bit more common, since Fighter makes a better dip than it does a main class. Person_Man's guide to melee combos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?127026-3-X-Person-Man-s-Guide-to-Melee-Combos) tends to be a good start for anyone looking to make a solid melee build. It also has plenty of other links to other good guides on melee tactics/strategies.

[Darrin]

Just a quick query, does anybody know of a completed Fighter Hanbook? I've searched on this forum as well as all over google, bing, etc. and All I can find is a 4e, 5e, and the very rough beginnings of a 3.5e that has been abandoned. Anyone got any leads?

We don't really have one for 3.5. I think the only thing that comes close is "Being Bane: Eldariel's Guide to Barbarians (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?105525-3-5e-Being-Bane-Eldariel-s-Guide-to-Barbarians)".

SLT&WT Barbarian 2/Fighter 18 is a pretty decent chassis as far as "I Hit Things, It's What I Do" standpoint. Jack B. Quick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17031211&postcount=30) is sorta the gold standard on what you can do with a Fighter 20. And you can do some demoralization optimization with Zhentarim Fighter + Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered.

Could you describe what you're trying to do with your fighter? If you have something specific in mind, maybe we can kitbash it together for you.

[Thurbane]

I'm going to add a vote for a new Fighter handbook. The PrC and Feats section would be an interesting read.

Fighter is a class that gets a lot of hate, but IMHO, it doesn't deserve the venom that it receives. I'm never going to say it's one of the more powerful classes of the game, but I firmly believe it can be a fun and interesting class to play.

[Nifft]

"Fighter is a 2-level Prestige Class which is often taken after Warblade level 3, to delay the acquisition of your level 4 Stance until you qualify for level 3 Maneuvers, and to provide you with a couple of bonus feats."

[DEMON]

I'm going to add a vote for a new Fighter handbook. The PrC and Feats section would be an interesting read.

Fighter is a class that gets a lot of hate, but IMHO, it doesn't deserve the venom that it receives. I'm never going to say it's one of the more powerful classes of the game, but I firmly believe it can be a fun and interesting class to play.

Seems like a great opportunity to turn this into a brainstorming session on what we'd like to see in the new Fighter handbook, such as:

- DEX and STR focused fighter builds
- 2WF, 2HF, S+B build, ranged builds, etc...
- Fighter vs other martial classes, pros and cons, Fighter with other martials, fighters as a Gish base...
- "Pure" Figthers, Fighters with PrCs, Fighters with base classes, Fighter dips

[Godskook]

We don't really have one for 3.5. I think the only thing that comes close is "Being Bane: Eldariel's Guide to Barbarians (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?105525-3-5e-Being-Bane-Eldariel-s-Guide-to-Barbarians)".

Who's "we" such that Dictum's excellent guide doesn't count?

[TotallyNotEvil]

Agreed, I too would love to see such a handbook.

Especially for PrCs. Is there no advice other than "get this partial casting class"? No interesting mundane PrCs out there?

"How to handle lv11+ play" would also be an interesting section. I know a bunch of feat combos, but should I just pursue another one at higher levels? Am I supposed to be looking or doing something else?

It bothers me there is little answer to that.

[Thurbane]

A section on feat combos, PrCs and dips would be good.

I mean, aside from the standard "Fighter as a 2 level dip" type discussion. :smalltongue:

Section on arms, armor and other gear would make sense.

I mean, there's a COmmoner handbook floating around, for pity's sake - Fighter deserves and up-to-date and in depth handbook too.

[Godskook]

Agreed, I too would love to see such a handbook.

Especially for PrCs. Is there no advice other than "get this partial casting class"? No interesting mundane PrCs out there?

"How to handle lv11+ play" would also be an interesting section. I know a bunch of feat combos, but should I just pursue another one at higher levels? Am I supposed to be looking or doing something else?

It bothers me there is little answer to that.

Part of *MY* problem is understanding just how "I want to use the Fighter class" somebody wants to go. Fighter is a recessive class that takes "backseat" to most of things you mix it with in builds. So you end up needing a truckload of actual Fighter levels to make it seem Fighter-y, and at that point, you're just picking feats. Whereas most tier 3+ classes are dominant in their builds, and so having very few actual levels in their classes is less of a big deal. This is partly, but not entirely, due to the fact that tier 3+ classes have continued progression in many prestige classes, letting them have their cake and eat it too.

[Darrin]

Who's "we" such that Dictum's excellent guide doesn't count?

I'm looking over it now... didn't know it existed before I posted.

Very good overview, but not as detailed as I might have liked.

[Bullet06320]

I'm going to add a vote for a new Fighter handbook. The PrC and Feats section would be an interesting read.

Fighter is a class that gets a lot of hate, but IMHO, it doesn't deserve the venom that it receives. I'm never going to say it's one of the more powerful classes of the game, but I firmly believe it can be a fun and interesting class to play.

I think its a good starter class for sumone who's never played before, here's you stick, go hit something, easy to make for a newb, easy to show the ropes of the game without having to book dive, minimal mechanics to learn at first.
keep it simple for the first session or 2, then move on to other advanced things as they learn the basics, get a feel for the game, and a better feel of what else there is out there to play based on there tastes

[AnimeTheCat]

I was asking because I want to write one. There is so much material that it's going to take a very long time to compile. I'm likely to start with compiling the feats and prestige classes and that kind of stuff then later working on the gosh build basis etc. I don't expect it to happen quickly as it will be something of a hobby, but there are a lot of feat trees that other classes may take their whole career getting in to or otherwise trying to replicate.

[noce]

I mean, there's a COmmoner handbook floating around, for pity's sake - Fighter deserves and up-to-date and in depth handbook too.

There's a Camel Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?513623-3-5-Camel-Handbook-A-Hump-for-the-Haters), too.

[bean illus]

I think folks around here forget that not everybody is an optimizer, or even plays often above level 12. At those levels fighter sucks much less.

Even if a handbook admitted fighter was best below e8 it could use a better handbook.

[Nifft]

Even if a handbook admitted fighter was best below e8 it could use a better handbook.

E8 and E6 (and the like) are actually the worst environments to choose Fighter levels.

Wanna know why?

Because feats are cheap once you hit the level ceiling.

After you reach the peak, will never be allowed to gain +1 class level, but you will be allowed to keep buying feats as you rack up "epic" XP.

Feats are the primary character growth you will gain over the long haul, therefore sacrificing class features in trade for feats is generally a poor decision. You'll get more feats -- you won't get more levels.

E8 and E6 feats are cheap. Fighter levels are an exceptionally bad trade.

[DEMON]

E8 and E6 (and the like) are actually the worst environments to choose Fighter levels.

Wanna know why?

Because feats are cheap once you hit the level ceiling.

After you reach the peak, will never be allowed to gain +1 class level, but you will be allowed to keep buying feats as you rack up "epic" XP.

Feats are the primary character growth you will gain over the long haul, therefore sacrificing class features in trade for feats is generally a poor decision. You'll get more feats -- you won't get more levels.

E8 and E6 feats are cheap. Fighter levels are an exceptionally bad trade.

But Fighters have ACFs, too, you know.

Thanks to those, Fighters in E6 are pretty solid, offering both both STR- and DEX-based options and full BAB:
On one hand, you have Dungeoncrusher for a STR-based build (add Resolute in place of the 4th level feat), on the other you have Hit and Run Tactics and Sneak Attack.

And this is exactly the sort of things that the handbook should cover.

[DeAnno]

Weapon Supremacy is actually a reasonably good feature masquerading as a feat, though the requirements for it are ridiculously steep. It's like a version of Aura of Perfect Order, except later and with some more bells and whistles. There's a couple things you can probably do with it in the way of one-big-shot builds, and it's generally good even outside those.

Archery is super-feat intensive, so you probably get more relative impact out of fighter there than in most other builds (no ToB to compete with either.)