The Oni: Firbolg Trickster Build Help

[Scathain]

Hey y'all! My character just died /cry and I need a new one in a couple of weeks. This guy'll be starting level 4, and I anticipate at least a couple more levels before our attention span runs short.

So, the build: I've been wanting to play a Firbolg for awhile now, and for some reason I'm drawn to a trickster type build. This character would either be refluffed as an Oni (or Oni-blooded, half-Oni, whatever the DM let's me get away with) or reveres them / their fighting style.

Now I have a few ideas, but for the life of me I cannot decide between them, so I come to the playground for help.


BUILD OPTION #1 - Trickery Cleric / Rogue (arcane trickster?)

This one was the first to pop into mind. Classic synergy with Invoke Duplicate + Sneak Attack. My issue with this build is I don't know what the cutoff points are, or whether it would be better to go more Cleric or Rogue.

BUILD OPTION #2 - Trickery Cleric / Druid (moon?)

While researching the build, I saw mention of this combo. SAD build, shillelagh, and wild shape for scouting makes this build a good nature-y choice. Same problem as before though, I have no idea what the cutoff points are. I also both like AND dislike the druid flavor of this build: LIKE because it fits with the classic Firbolg theme of being an agent of nature, DISLIKE because of the aforementioned Oni flavoring. I'm also stuck on the subclass. Moon makes sense for a 2 level dip solely for Wild Shape.

BUILD OPTION #3 - Trickery Cleric / Monk (shadow?)

Once again, this SAD build makes up for the Trickster Cleric's lack of weapon options through Martial Arts. With Dex/Wis maxed as far as they can, okayish hit dice, and dodge as a bonus action, this build can be almost as quick as a rogue, and a lot tankier. As with the other two, cutoff points are something I'm struggling with. Do I race for multiattack, only grabbing the first two cleric levels? Or do I go full cleric and grab 1-3 monk levels? Subclass advice would be welcome here as well.


So, which do you guys like best? Which do you find the most effective for my mid-range game? ANY input is welcome, even build ideas that don't fall into the three categories above, so long as they include the Firbolg race and a largely rogueish/trickster vibe to them.

[Seekergeek]

If UA is allowed, a fun choice might be rogue and trickery theurge. It's tough at level four to get it online but I'd think probably one or two levels of rogue and the rest wizard to start. You'd get expertise and some sneak attack potential while getting the channel arcana and channel divinity options along with a, I think, more interesting spell list to play with.

[Biggstick]

Three levels Arcane Trickster Rogue to start, then go 17 levels Trickster Cleric. I know you said it will probably only go a few more levels, but this will net you a pretty sneaky/supportive build. You'll have fun Trickster abilities with an invisible Mage Hand, be a second level caster (who's about to be a third level one), you'll have access to 2d6 sneak attack on top of BB or GFB, Cunning Action, Healing Word, Bless, medium armor and shields, etc etc.

Also to note, why do you want to be part Oni? Those things love to eat children and are typically evil. Is that the vibe you're looking to have your character put off?

[Quoxis]

An option would be trickery cleric/monk (either long death for never dying ever again or shadow for the supernatural "now you see me - now you don't" flair) coupled with magic initiate: druid for shillellagh and a ranged attack cantrip(cleric only gets sacred flame which has a Dex save, so your ranged options are rather limited) like frostbite or produce flame. As your once-a-day spell you can pick whatever (maybe charm person, that's nice to have for free).

Then pump everything you have into Wisdom, your Dex isn't that important anymore (monks get proficiency in Dex saves iirc), as wisdom now is your spellcasting stat, your attack stat with shillellagh and your unarmored defense stat. Dex and Con come later when Wis is maxed.

Pro:
- less MAD, key is Wisdom
- get another attack cantrip for better versatility
- free 1/day spell

Con:
- takes up a feat

[Scathain]

Three levels Arcane Trickster Rogue to start, then go 17 levels Trickster Cleric. I know you said it will probably only go a few more levels, but this will net you a pretty sneaky/supportive build. You'll have fun Trickster abilities with an invisible Mage Hand, be a second level caster (who's about to be a third level one), you'll have access to 2d6 sneak attack on top of BB or GFB, Cunning Action, Healing Word, Bless, medium armor and shields, etc etc.

Also to note, why do you want to be part Oni? Those things love to eat children and are typically evil. Is that the vibe you're looking to have your character put off?

I dig that build. I completely forgot that arcane trickster gave access to GFB and BB. That certainly comes online quicker than multiattack in a monk build. Can I still get away with dumping Int, focusing on Wis alone?

If being an actual Oni is too much of a stretch (it is a post apocalyptic world, a frozen wasteland with Attack on Titan style cities huddled together trying to not freeze to death), Oni would be little more than a moniker: a cover for his identity and to instill fear in victims. I just picked Oni because when I think "tricksy giants" that's what pops up. Besides, I'm taking the Urban Bounty Hunter background, so this guy is a killer, but not in any way that's going to be counter to good party play.

[Biggstick]

I dig that build. I completely forgot that arcane trickster gave access to GFB and BB. That certainly comes online quicker than multiattack in a monk build. Can I still get away with dumping Int, focusing on Wis alone?

If being an actual Oni is too much of a stretch (it is a post apocalyptic world, a frozen wasteland with Attack on Titan style cities huddled together trying to not freeze to death), Oni would be little more than a moniker: a cover for his identity and to instill fear in victims. I just picked Oni because when I think "tricksy giants" that's what pops up. Besides, I'm taking the Urban Bounty Hunter background, so this guy is a killer, but not in any way that's going to be counter to good party play.

You can absolutely get away with dumping Int. I would look to maximize Wisdom with a build like this. Be content with your 14 Dexterity (all that's necessary for medium armor to have maximum effectiveness, and you still meet the multiclass requirements) and Bless if you ever "need" to hit something. Once you gain one more level, your attacks will start hitting a little bit harder, and you'll be a third level spell caster with more spells to throw around on Bless.

Bless is going to be what keeps you really valuable to the party once your Rogue damage starts to fall off. You can literally use Bless for the rest of the campaign-life as your concentration spell and you'll be valuable to your party.

What's fun for the Trickery archetype is the interesting spells that become available as they level up. Pass w/o Trace at Cleric 3 (or PC level 6 in our case) will make it so you can put Blessing of the Trickster on the heavy armor wearer, and give them a +10 to Stealth rolls. All of a sudden, you can sneak a Plate wearing Paladin into places that you normally couldn't. Cleric level 7 (PC level 10) gets you access to Dimension Door and Polymorph, and those spells can be pretty hilariously used by a Player with some creativity.

[Quoxis]

I dig that build. I completely forgot that arcane trickster gave access to GFB and BB. That certainly comes online quicker than multiattack in a monk build. Can I still get away with dumping Int, focusing on Wis alone?


Well... a little bit.

Dumping int dumps your AT casting stat, meaning you'll have to pick spells that neither need an attack roll nor force a saving throw. Green flame blade does neither, but its damage is directly related to your int mod - so if that's 0 or lower, you might as well not cast it at all before level 5, after which its damage will rise to 1d8 (negative modifiers will still be subtracted from that damage), so if you plan to dump int, forget the faux multiattack. Booming blade is Independent of your int mod, though it requires your target to move to take damage - and it's not particularly sneaky to make a wall of thunder, though fluff is your business there.
The only way to get gfb with Wis as its casting stat that i know of is the first level arcana cleric feature "arcane initiate" (or sth like that) which lets you choose 2(?) wizard cantrips additionally to your 3 cleric cantrips.

[Quoxis]

You can absolutely get away with dumping Int.


He can. He just has to forget about gfb.
BB isn't dependent on any modifiers as i've just checked.

[Biggstick]

He can. He just has to forget about gfb.
BB isn't dependent on any modifiers as i've just checked.

Who says he has to forget about GFB? GFB will still swing 2d8 at the additional enemy within 5' of the initial target. Even with a -1, that's still 8 damage on average done to the second enemy.

All that aside, you can absolutely run either GFB or BB and it will be great on the character, even with a -1 or 0 modifier to your casting stat.

[Quoxis]

Who says he has to forget about GFB? GFB will still swing 2d8 at the additional enemy within 5' of the initial target. Even with a -1, that's still 8 damage on average done to the second enemy.

All that aside, you can absolutely run either GFB or BB and it will be great on the character, even with a -1 or 0 modifier to your casting stat.

Where do you get the 2d8 from?
BB does your int mod in fire damage from the start and grows 1d8 each at level 5 (where it starts hurting the attacked target too), 11 and 17.
The OP was talking about starting at level 4 - a normal weapon attack and no damage to the second guy, and the rest of the game after their first level up he'll do 1d8-1 (assuming a negative int mod) damage... Don't dump int. Dump Cha or Str.