Would a mindless creature with lifesense...

[SangoProduction]

Would they pay attention to an illusion of a warrior "trying" to attack them?

In my world, most "natural" undead have a lifesense of 10 ft. Last session, this came up. I just rolled will save anyway, because it felt right for the case that I wasn't sure. But what do you guys feel?

[Jowgen]

If we're talking a figment (i.e. the non-glamer, non-mind-affecting illusion variety), then as written an illusion that includes a life-sense-glow feature could only by produced by someone who knows how a living creature looks to an undead with lifesense. See relevant below.


Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like.

The average living caster might know about lifesense but would have no first-hand experience on how lifesense looks, and thus be unable to reproduce it in a Figment.

[SangoProduction]

If we're talking a figment (i.e. the non-glamer, non-mind-affecting illusion variety), then as written an illusion that includes a life-sense-glow feature could only by produced by someone who knows how a living creature looks to an undead with lifesense. See relevant below.



The average living caster might know about lifesense but would have no first-hand experience on how lifesense looks, and thus be unable to reproduce it in a Figment.

Yeah, that's why I'm asking. But thanks for clarification.

[Waker]

It would vary a bit depending on what lore you are using for undead, but since you specifically mentioned that they have Lifesense, I assume mindless undead do whatever they can to attack the living. They don't attack fire, leaves blowing in the wind or anything else that is moving but not living. They go for people because they can sense they are alive. Therefore any kind of illusory effect would not grab their attention anymore than anything else.

[SangoProduction]

It would vary a bit depending on what lore you are using for undead, but since you specifically mentioned that they have Lifesense, I assume mindless undead do whatever they can to attack the living. They don't attack fire, leaves blowing in the wind or anything else that is moving but not living. They go for people because they can sense they are alive. Therefore any kind of illusory effect would not grab their attention anymore than anything else.

Yeah, that's the general idea.

[Necroticplague]

All not glowing to Lifesense means is that it isn't alive. There's plenty of crap in DnD that isn't alive and can still hurt you.

[SangoProduction]

All not glowing to Lifesense means is that it isn't alive. There's plenty of crap in DnD that isn't alive and can still hurt you.

Which is one of the conundrums of this question. It would be a lot easier if he had the illusion be of a not-typically-living creature. But would a mindless creature be able to tell?

[KillianHawkeye]

But would a mindless creature be able to tell?

Not automatically, no. As an example, there are a few types of undead that look extremely similar to how they looked when still alive.

I'd say having them make the Saving Throw was exactly the right thing to do.

[SangoProduction]

Not automatically, no. As an example, there are a few types of undead that look extremely similar to how they looked when still alive.

I'd say having them make the Saving Throw was exactly the right thing to do.

cool. Was coming to a similar conclusion.

[Necroticplague]

Which is one of the conundrums of this question. It would be a lot easier if he had the illusion be of a not-typically-living creature. But would a mindless creature be able to tell?

Even without INT, creatures can still use Sense Motive (WIS based), and have Will saves. This means they do have some thought process, even if it is rudimentary. So they would know the illusion wasn't alive (this information is given by their senses). However, they'd need a will save to determine if it's 'not alive-illusion of something alive' or 'not alive-undead, construct, or inanimate object'. A failed will save makes them assume the latter, and they believe themselves under attack by some manner of undead or construct; success means they realize the former.

[SangoProduction]

Even without INT, creatures can still use Sense Motive (WIS based), and have Will saves. This means they do have some thought process, even if it is rudimentary. So they would know the illusion wasn't alive (this information is given by their senses). However, they'd need a will save to determine if it's 'not alive-illusion of something alive' or 'not alive-undead, construct, or inanimate object'. A failed will save makes them assume the latter, and they believe themselves under attack by some manner of undead or construct; success means they realize the former.

Yeah, I think that makes sense.

[The Viscount]

I'd say it would make sense for them to go after an illusory warrior and have to roll the save. Lifesense would just be another sense to a mindless creature, like hearing or scent. Just like if something provided a visual but not an auditory stimulus it would likely be enough to make the creature attack the source, visual without lifesense would make it attack, just like lifesense without otherwise visual stimulus would prompt it to attack. Discernment of the importance of stimuli is something I would classify as requiring intelligence.