Vampire fly over river

[Yklikt]

Can he do this

[Kish]

No. Can't cross running water: not on a bridge, not as a bat, not with an axe, not in a hat.

[hamishspence]

Can he do this

Presumably this:


Vampire Weaknesses
For all their power, vampires have a number of weaknesses.

Repelling a Vampire
Vampires cannot tolerate the strong odor of garlic and will not enter an area laced with it. Similarly, they recoil from a mirror or a strongly presented holy symbol. These things don’t harm the vampire—they merely keep it at bay. A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from a creature holding the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against the creature holding the item for the rest of the encounter. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action.

Vampires are also unable to cross running water, although they can be carried over it while resting in their coffins or aboard a ship.

applies to all attempts to cross running water under their own power. So, they'd run into an invisible barrier (from their own point of view) marking the boundary of the river.

But if they sit on the back of a flying monster, and give it a "move straight ahead" order, that might qualify as being "carried over it" - with the monster substituting for their coffin.

Or just get in the coffin, and telepathically ask the monster to pick it up in its claws and fly the right direction.
No. Can't cross running water: not on a bridge, not as a bat, not with an axe, not in a hat.

Vamp in socks in box on Knox. :smallamused:

[Ellrin]

I wonder how high above a river a vampire needs to be to cross it. Presumably there's nothing stopping him from crossing the path of a planet with rivers on it while in a completely different solar system.

[Inevitability]

I wonder how high above a river a vampire needs to be to cross it. Presumably there's nothing stopping him from crossing the path of a planet with rivers on it while in a completely different solar system.

The most reasonable definition of 'over' seems to be 'located further from the centre of mass of the object exerting the greatest gravitional force on the vampire than the river, with a straight line connecting all three'.

[Buufreak]

The most reasonable definition of 'over' seems to be 'located further from the centre of mass of the object exerting the greatest gravitional force on the vampire than the river, with a straight line connecting all three'.

But using the most literal of RAW distinction possible, all vamps ever would be paralyzed indefinitely due to most planets having rivers, be they gas, liquid, or dry.

[hamishspence]

It specifically says running water. No problem crossing a "river of lava" or anything like that.

[Caelestion]

A lake might be fine though, particularly if it has no outlet, because then it might well be standing water.

[Buufreak]

It specifically says running water. No problem crossing a "river of lava" or anything like that.

Curses, foiled by dyslexia again...

[TheFurith]

No. But it's only running water it cannot cross. Just stop the water from moving, or stop the water from being water. Or just stop time.

Never liked that rule for vampires. I always imagine the dismay of a vampire after the invention of plumping. Or the fact that they can be defeated by a hose.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Never liked that rule for vampires. I always imagine the dismay of a vampire after the invention of plumping. Or the fact that they can be defeated by a hose.
In the Old Kingdom series (by Garth Nix), all dead are to some degree unable/hesitant to cross running water, and the city of Belisaere is surrounded by aquaducts for that reason - people can walk right through, but against the dead, it's better than walls. Annoying weaknesses can be pretty good for worldbuilding, though if you wanted to use it more often, I'd homebrew some hard-and-fast rules for it, exactly to avoid the plumbing issue.

[hamishspence]

No. But it's only running water it cannot cross. Just stop the water from moving, or stop the water from being water. Or just stop time.

Dracula's was "cannot cross running water except at the slack or flood of the tide"

And he seemed to be able to leave his coffin while at sea - hence the crew being reduced in number one by one until the last crew member alive crashes the ship on the shores of England, at Whitby.

I don't think the sewers of London gave him any problems when it came to walking around in London (during the day, too - he wasn't as light-vulnerable as many fictional vampires) - so maybe the water has to be un-enclosed to count as a barrier.

[Afgncaap5]

I don't know exactly how high a vampire has to fly, but I'm guessing "uncomfortably." They'll be flying long enough for any players to be able to get away if they want to, at least.

[Necroticplague]

Never liked that rule for vampires. I always imagine the dismay of a vampire after the invention of plumping. Or the fact that they can be defeated by a hose.

I just ignore vampire weaknesses entirely. Very few creatures in DnD have anything remotely like it, and it's unnecessarily punishing, considering the massive LA already imposed.

[Pleh]

I would rule the only limitation being they can't cross on foot by swimming or wading. Flying over, why not? After all, what about subterranean rivers? Can they cross those by walking normally on the ground?

Kind of stupid not to, so I say the limitation only applies when they would be forced into direct contact with the flowing water.

I mean, why not just use their coffin as a raft and paddle? The coffin is "carrying them across". I only see a meaningful connection when they actually are in the water.

[DrMotives]

I think this is one of those cases where you really should go to popular mythology about them and pick what makes the most sense to you. Since as Pleh mentions, they are destroyed by immersion in running water but can boat across, most methods of simply staying out of the water while being over it should be fine. And paddling the coffin is really just piloting a canoe with terrible ergonomics, maybe a penalty to seaworthiness. On the other hand, I do recall a film where a vampire was trapped by pouring holy water in a circle around it. It would have been trivial to step over the wet line, but the vamp couldn't, and had to wait around until the Sun showed up and finished it off. But that was holy water, not running water. The only place with large bodies of holy water I know is the first layer of Celestia, a place that's pretty unfriendly to vampires for multiple reasons.

[Nifft]

In the Old Kingdom series (by Garth Nix), all dead are to some degree unable/hesitant to cross running water, and the city of Belisaere is surrounded by aquaducts for that reason - people can walk right through, but against the dead, it's better than walls. Annoying weaknesses can be pretty good for worldbuilding, though if you wanted to use it more often, I'd homebrew some hard-and-fast rules for it, exactly to avoid the plumbing issue.

Nice.

Now I know why Venice was the center for interplanar trade -- it's because the vampires nobility were unable to stop them.

[Ellrin]

Well, since we're all offering some more arbitrary guidelines here, I guess I'll pitch my 2cp in, too.

Vampires are ultimately chthonic creatures—they rise from and return to the earth (their graves), and some stories even stipulate that a vampire must have soil from his grave site with him in order to cross running water.

Running water has long been a symbol of cleanliness, life, and even divinity in the myths, legends, and folklore of people around the world and across most of human history; it is also associated in some sense with the triumph over the earth vampires are bound to—running water washes away dirt, creates roaring rivers, and gouges out massive canyons. This symbolism is likely what connects vampires to this particular weakness, even though the water itself cannot hurt them.

Since vampires are symbolically connected to the earth, I would say that no, they can't fly over running water—there's a part of what they are that can never truly leave the ground. They can cross running water if it's wholly contained by the earth (such as subterranean rivers), or if there's a very significant amount of earth between them and the water (such as a river flowing on the opposite side of the planet). They can "cross" running water if there is no more gravitational pull on them from the body containing the running water than there is from other similar sized-bodies (i.e., if they're significantly far enough away in space that they could not be caught in a planetary orbit).

If the source of the running water is sufficiently tainted, the running water itself may not be pure enough to stop them. I'm of two minds about salt water—on the one hand, it's often a symbol of death, but the oceans themselves are, again, symbolically connected to life, and salt is also a symbol of purity. I'm not sure what I think about water running through pipes, aqueducts, or other manmade devices, though for my part it may depend on what the conveyances are made of and the cleanliness of the water within.

[SangoProduction]

Well, since we're all offering some more arbitrary guidelines here, I guess I'll pitch my 2cp in, too.

Vampires are ultimately chthonic creatures—they rise from and return to the earth (their graves), and some stories even stipulate that a vampire must have soil from his grave site with him in order to cross running water.

Running water has long been a symbol of cleanliness, life, and even divinity in the myths, legends, and folklore of people around the world and across most of human history; it is also associated in some sense with the triumph over the earth vampires are bound to—running water washes away dirt, creates roaring rivers, and gouges out massive canyons. This symbolism is likely what connects vampires to this particular weakness, even though the water itself cannot hurt them.

Since vampires are symbolically connected to the earth, I would say that no, they can't fly over running water—there's a part of what they are that can never truly leave the ground. They can cross running water if it's wholly contained by the earth (such as subterranean rivers), or if there's a very significant amount of earth between them and the water (such as a river flowing on the opposite side of the planet). They can "cross" running water if there is no more gravitational pull on them from the body containing the running water than there is from other similar sized-bodies (i.e., if they're significantly far enough away in space that they could not be caught in a planetary orbit).

If the source of the running water is sufficiently tainted, the running water itself may not be pure enough to stop them. I'm of two minds about salt water—on the one hand, it's often a symbol of death, but the oceans themselves are, again, symbolically connected to life, and salt is also a symbol of purity. I'm not sure what I think about water running through pipes, aqueducts, or other manmade devices, though for my part it may depend on what the conveyances are made of and the cleanliness of the water within.

I'm glad someone brought up their more traditional roots in mythology.

[Caelestion]

Water pipes are traditionally made of lead (hence the term plumber) and lead is traditionally good at blocking divinations, so it might also be good at blocking whatever purity might still be contained in the piped water. You could also make the case fairly enough that piped water is merely standing water and doesn't affect vampires.

[ShurikVch]

Note:
If the base creature has a swim speed, the vampire retains the ability to swim and is not vulnerable to immersion in running waterIf Vampire can swim across a river, I presume he would be able to fly across the river


Side-questions:
1) What if Vampire was thrown - with Fling Ally/Enemy (or loaded as ammunition into Colossal-sized sling) - what's will happen when the path crossing some running water? Will Vampire be destroyed? Or just inexplicably stopped? Or what?
2) What's if there is a subterranean river (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subterranean_river) across the path? Does it mean standard Vampire wouldn't be able to cross it too? Will he be even aware what's stopping him?

[Nifft]

Note:If Vampire can swim across a river, I presume he would be able to fly across the river


Side-questions:
1) What if Vampire was thrown - with Fling Ally/Enemy (or loaded as ammunition into Colossal-sized sling) - what's will happen when the path crossing some running water? Will Vampire be destroyed? Or just inexplicably stopped? Or what?
2) What's if there is a subterranean river (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subterranean_river) across the path? Does it mean standard Vampire wouldn't be able to cross it too? Will he be even aware what's stopping him?

If we're going with the idea that the vampiric aversion to running water is due to the cthonic, earth-bound nature of a vampire, then a subterranean river is not an obstacle -- subterranean clearly means that earth dominates that region, so the cthonic life form has no difficulty.

A natural land bridge would also allow transit, but not a man-made bridge.

Regarding being thrown: the vampire can turn into a bat or into gaseous form to gain a fly speed, and thereby avoid reaching any forbidden volume of space.

[Bohandas]

Water pipes are traditionally made of lead (hence the term plumber) and lead is traditionally good at blocking divinations,

You mean traditionally in RPGs right?

Because I always assumed that that was an extrapolation from it blocking x-rays and radiation and so forth


Regarding being thrown: the vampire can turn into a bat or into gaseous form to gain a fly speed, and thereby avoid reaching any forbidden volume of space.

What if it's been halted (held)? Or perhaps sealed in a can?

[Spore]

Maybe the Vampire is an Alchemist and Water means aqua purificata to him, thus disqualifying any and all mixtures, solutions suspensions et cetera.

[Caelestion]

You mean traditionally in RPGs right?

Because I always assumed that that was an extrapolation from it blocking x-rays and radiation and so forth.

Well, yes. I didn't think that was necessary to point out. :smallwink:

I agree that's probably exactly where Gygax got the idea.

[Nifft]

What if it's been halted (held)? Or perhaps sealed in a can?

Then I guess the water would act as a metaphysical barrier, causing the vampire to bounce as if it had hit an invisible wall, and also breaking whatever container or magical effect had impaired the vampire's movement.

The cthonic binding of Earth is the primary effect, and would shatter any lesser effect that tried to conflict with its sovereignty.

That said, I would totally put "Vamp in a Can!" on the shelf of a bodega in Sigil.

(Right next to the Werewolf Pills.)

[SimonMoon6]

Nice.

Now I know why Venice was the center for interplanar trade -- it's because the vampires nobility were unable to stop them.

*thinks of Doctor Who episode "The Vampires of Venice"*

[Yklikt]

*thinks of Doctor Who episode "The Vampires of Venice"*

Fish vampire can go in water

[Mordaedil]

I always took the rule to meaning as to be interpreted as a bubble, where they can't cross a running river as high up as it is wide, making crossing oceans extremely problematic, but the little rivers in London and the like aren't a big issue, while the Thames is still a hindrance where he needs to sit in a car to driven across.

[emeraldstreak]

Hrm I'm not convinced people realize how much running water there's in the world. A medieval world will have brooks literally everywhere in temperate regions. A more advanced world may have them streamlined in irrigation and sewers systems in civilized areas, however they are still technically running water.

[Mordaedil]

Hrm I'm not convinced people realize how much running water there's in the world. A medieval world will have brooks literally everywhere in temperate regions. A more advanced world may have them streamlined in irrigation and sewers systems in civilized areas, however they are still technically running water.

Not to mention how much groundwater (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwater) there is, which means unless excempted in some manner would trap the vampire to very specific regions.

[Segev]

While it is beyond a psychological effect, I would generally rule it in mythical and narrative terms: if the vampire is sufficiently removed from the water source that, barring obstacles impeding his view, he wouldn't notice he was "crossing" the river, it isn't a problem. In White Wolf terms, the river and he have to be in different scenes.

If it's "running water" but of the sort that nobody would even pause to notice without it being pointed out, it also doesn't count. So if you've got a garden hose making a small trail of water across your sidewalk, it's not going to impede the vampire. Unless you'd stop to note it and have to do more than take a casual step across it, it doesn't count.

If he's flying so high that "crossing the river" loses meaning, he's probably fine. But if you're transitioning to low orbit and back down to evade this supernatural restriction, it's probably still nuisance enough. Heck, nothing prevents a vampire from teleporting to a location on the other side of a river, either.


Whether he could take a tunnel UNDER a river remains an interesting question. Could a vampire take the Chunnel under the English Channel?

[DrMotives]

Whether he could take a tunnel UNDER a river remains an interesting question. Could a vampire take the Chunnel under the English Channel?

Since Dracula took a boat over the English Channel, and I don't think the Chunnel allows pedestrian traffic (although I could be wrong, I don't live anywhere near it), a train or car could carry a vampire through with no problems.

[martixy]

Not to mention how much groundwater (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwater) there is, which means unless excempted in some manner would trap the vampire to very specific regions.

Frankly I find that stipulation insane. But I guess they wanted to stick to folklore.

I take Dresden's pragmatic approach when it comes to vampires and their voodoo mystical crap.
1. Screw mirrors.
2. Holy symbols if there's a cleric holding them.
3. Garlic is irritating at best(though it does grant onlookers a sense motive check to discover this discomfort).
4. The state of the water has no bearing on its harmful effects upon contact with the vampire. No contact, no harm.
5. Entering uninvited makes em lose all Su abilities. They can still suck you out of course.

[Caelestion]

5. Entering uninvited makes em lose all Su abilities. They can still suck you out of course.

That one's interesting. It does make things less all or nothing.

[DrMotives]

That one's interesting. It does make things less all or nothing.

In the Harry Dresden series, it's not just vampires with that restriction, it's anything supernatural. A wizard can't do magic if he crosses a threshold uninvited, a demon can't, a fairy can't, etc. It's one of the biggest baseline assumptions about how magic works.

[Mordaedil]

Frankly I find that stipulation insane. But I guess they wanted to stick to folklore.

I take Dresden's pragmatic approach when it comes to vampires and their voodoo mystical crap.
1. Screw mirrors.
2. Holy symbols if there's a cleric holding them.
3. Garlic is irritating at best(though it does grant onlookers a sense motive check to discover this discomfort).
4. The state of the water has no bearing on its harmful effects upon contact with the vampire. No contact, no harm.
5. Entering uninvited makes em lose all Su abilities. They can still suck you out of course.

My personal take on the river thing is that they can't swim, so they sink, but worse yet, currents underwater are like hurricanes, so they often get swept away unless they can check the stream. So, they can cross the rivers, but they are heistant to do so because they will struggle fighting it.

I kinda like mirrors being a thing though, but maybe just have it so that it reveals their nature rather than them being invisible in them. Otherwise I like your other changes.

Albeit, my DM and I both agree that if we introduce vampire players to the game, we're going to have quite a bit deeper houserules for having them rather than using core monster manual vampires. We might adopt more of World of Darkness type vampires instead.

[Barbarian Horde]

Have a Artificer build a zord (Golem) with your coffin as a center piece and have it carry the vampire across. It's amazing what one can do with science and magic. Your going to need to make sure you cast pyrotechnics with a ton of meta magic.

This doesn't seem unreasonable to have a golem carry the vampire across. They are constructs that listen to commands. (most of the time) This one just happens to have a coffin as part of it's chest piece.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm7CkJ-D4cM See you play a nifty tune, it walks out of the river, you jump in... Imagine crossing the river in this.

[Caelestion]

I kinda like mirrors being a thing though, but maybe just have it so that it reveals their nature rather than them being invisible in them. Otherwise I like your other changes.

Revealing their Buffy-style beast faces, you mean? Otherwise, not appearing in mirrors does reveal their nature.

The mid-90s' Channel 4 mini-series Ultraviolet features a vampire conspiracy in modern London and the black ops team who hunts its operatives. Amongst other adaptations, vampire DNA has a literally explosive reaction to sunlight (though the resulting pile of ash can be reconstituted by vampire blood), vampire bites are invisible except under the titular ultraviolet light and instils a suggestive link between the two, and neither the reflections nor voices of vampires can be captured in any way (e.g. by phone, mirror or TV).

[Mordaedil]

Revealing their Buffy-style beast faces, you mean? Otherwise, not appearing in mirrors does reveal their nature.

The mid-90s' Channel 4 mini-series Ultraviolet features a vampire conspiracy in modern London and the black ops team who hunts its operatives. Amongst other adaptations, vampire DNA has a literally explosive reaction to sunlight (though the resulting pile of ash can be reconstituted by vampire blood), vampire bites are invisible except under the titular ultraviolet light and instils a suggestive link between the two, and neither the reflections nor voices of vampires can be captured in any way (e.g. by phone, mirror or TV).
Yeah!

Man, why wasn't Buffy-style vampires the kind that took off in the modern era, instead of Twilight? That was so much more badass too.

[Caelestion]

Twilight vampires are justly reviled, so I wouldn't exactly say that they took off. They got a bunch of films and briefly spawned Pattison mania, but it's as dead as half the franchise's characters now. :smallsmile:

That said, back in the heyday of 3.5, I played a vampire who had a permanent beast-face (as a fairly potent flaw). He pretty much had to wear a helmet all the time.

[Bohandas]

The no reflection thing could probably be solved with flesh-tone makeup and a wig

[Inevitability]

The no reflection thing could probably be solved with flesh-tone makeup and a wig

Eyes seem like they might be problematic. Either you get some non-transparent lenses and lose your own sight, or you don't and your reflection will have no eyes.

[Pleh]

Eyes seem like they might be problematic. Either you get some non-transparent lenses and lose your own sight, or you don't and your reflection will have no eyes.

You could have one way lenses, or just have them only be transparent at the actual pupil.

Though, to be fair, in medieval times any kind of contacts will be expensive to craft.

I like to think that an undead vampire might not feel pain from putting makeup directly on their eye. After all, I'm sure at least it couldn't do more damage than their 10 DR. As long as they don't cover up the pupil, they can see normally.

Heck, it might do so little harm to them that they might permanently paint their entire face as long as the paint/makeup isn't silver based.

[Caelestion]

If not reflecting was simply a case of what they wore, why do vampires' clothes also not show up in mirrors?

[Calthropstu]

He can't cross running water eh?
*summons some water elementals to run laps around the vampire.*

[Psyren]

Pathfinder seems to have ditched the "cross running water" weakness, though the "immersion" one is still there.


Eyes seem like they might be problematic. Either you get some non-transparent lenses and lose your own sight, or you don't and your reflection will have no eyes.

Just pull your hood forward like every fantasy cliché.

(For modern settings, get the Marvel Civilian Starter Pack (http://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/the-marvels-im-just-a-civilian-starter-pack.jpg))

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Maybe the water has to detect evil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm)?

It sounds silly, but hear me out:


The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.

A vampire could be on a wooden ship inside his coffin in a box of earth. In fact, just the coffin will probably suffice, since it has the detect vampires by water blocking property. On a metal ship the vampire could probably move around pretty freely. A stone bridge would work fine as well.

Stone is roughly twice as dense as water, and wood and dirt are of similar density to it. That means that if water wasn't the thing stopping the vampire, about 3 feet of water would stop the effect. Why do I want to know that? Because I know that 10 meters, 33 foot or so, of water exerts about as much pressure on anything under it as the entire atmospheric pressure at sea level. So to block the effect of running water using only air you'd need about one eleventh of the earths atmosphere between it and the vampire. Now, I have no idea what I'm doing here, but a very quick and dirty google suggests that that means being about 800 meters or 2700 foot up. (https://www.mide.com/pages/air-pressure-at-altitude-calculator) (I put 100 as sea level pressure and 91 as the pressure at altitude, left temperature at 15*C and got 788.37m.) (That number will go down a little if the river is located significantly below sea level, and up above it.) Yes, that's a lot lower than you would expect for 1/11th of the entire atmosphere, but keep in mind that the air at lower altitudes is much more compressed than higher up. Mount Everest is climbed with oxygen masks.

That's my answer, 800 meters, and I'm sticking to it. So no, a vampire on the moon would not be inconvenienced by the turning earth, there's a blocker. Most planets without an atmosphere would furthermore probably not have running water, I think it would evaporate pretty quickly, and even the lone molecule here and there in the interstellar medium would eventually block waters effect given a large enough distance, and space is full of large distances.

I'll assume the water is nice enough to only radiate directly upwards. If running water has this effect in any direction but the shore blocks it flying over a river you're standing right next to is going to be a long round trip.

Again, no idea what I'm doing, pressure and amount of molecules probably don't scale linearly like that.

Alternatively, detect evil has a range of 60 feet.

[The_Jette]

Maybe the water has to detect evil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm)?

Why would a vampire care about having detect evil cast on it?

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Why would a vampire care about having detect evil cast on it?

Why would moving water cast a spell? I'm trying to find something to base limits to the effect on, and divination spells seemed fitting.

[Psyren]

The magic isn't in the water, it's in the vampire. Something about their unnatural creation process leaves them with specific weaknesses to otherwise natural things that are benign to the living. Lots of undead have quirks like that, there's no point in trying to unpack it.

[The_Jette]

Why would moving water cast a spell? I'm trying to find something to base limits to the effect on, and divination spells seemed fitting.


The magic isn't in the water, it's in the vampire. Something about their unnatural creation process leaves them with specific weaknesses to otherwise natural things that are benign to the living. Lots of undead have quirks like that, there's no point in trying to unpack it.

What he (Psyren) said.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Why would a vampire care about having detect evil cast on it?

The magic isn't in the water, it's in the vampire. Something about their unnatural creation process leaves them with specific weaknesses to otherwise natural things that are benign to the living. Lots of undead have quirks like that, there's no point in trying to unpack it.
It's about the range of the effect; it doesn't matter whether the range is from the vampire or the water. Divination spells fall off in strength if they have to penetrate certain materials. It makes sense (homebrew sense, but good sense) to generalize that to other magical effects, in order to give them a range that leads to a consistent universe.

Lvl 2 Expert's conclusion is exactly the kind of in-universe research I'd like to see a vampire PC do. 100% my new headcanon for vampire weaknesses.

[Psyren]

I get your point, but I think the better solution is just to ditch that weakness entirely, like PF did. The danger of immersion on its own should be enough for them to be wary around rivers.

[Komatik]

My personal take on the river thing is that they can't swim, so they sink, but worse yet, currents underwater are like hurricanes, so they often get swept away unless they can check the stream. So, they can cross the rivers, but they are heistant to do so because they will struggle fighting it.

I kinda like mirrors being a thing though, but maybe just have it so that it reveals their nature rather than them being invisible in them. Otherwise I like your other changes.

Albeit, my DM and I both agree that if we introduce vampire players to the game, we're going to have quite a bit deeper houserules for having them rather than using core monster manual vampires. We might adopt more of World of Darkness type vampires instead.

One thing I've always wanted to play was a vampire who got paralyzed by immersion in running rivers (ridiculously hard WP check to make a single movement or the like) and got thrown into one for some reason and fortuitously hauled ashore by fishermen after months of boredom and being nibbled by fish at the bottom of the river.

[Gandariel]

I wonder if they can throw a lemon in the river and then cross it, since it's a stream of lemonade and not water

[Hackulator]

I treat it more like a psychological issue. The vampire will not, under any circumstances, try to cross running water. He won't do it under his own power, he won't tell a minion to throw him, he won't do any of those things. He only feels safe enough when inside his coffin. It is a primal terror the vampire cannot overcome. This means you never have to deal with questions like "is there an underground river here" cause the vamp doesn't see it and therefore doesn't know its there.

[Psyren]

I treat it more like a psychological issue. The vampire will not, under any circumstances, try to cross running water. He won't do it under his own power, he won't tell a minion to throw him, he won't do any of those things. He only feels safe enough when inside his coffin. It is a primal terror the vampire cannot overcome. This means you never have to deal with questions like "is there an underground river here" cause the vamp doesn't see it and therefore doesn't know its there.

Can I bluff the vampire into thinking there's an aqueduct underneath us? :smallbiggrin:

Kidding aside, if I were using this rule this is probably how I'd do it. If he sees the river, the aversion kicks in. Why does it work? Who knows, same reason they don't like garlic and holy symbols if they see those.

[Calthropstu]

Would an illusionary one work?

[Psyren]

Would an illusionary one work?

As a matter of fact I think it would, if the vampire fails its will save. Figments aren't mind-affecting after all.

Similarly, I think illusory garlic might make them recoil if they believe it's real. Problem is that both of these are pretty easy to disprove. (Garlic has a strong odor, rivers should make things wet.)

[Ettina]

In one of my stories, I had vampires be powered by electromagnetism. Running water strips away electrons, causing them to lose energy and become tired and ill and possibly even die. Basically the same reason that windchill hurts humans - the wind strips away the warm air around us and replaces it with cold air, causing us to lose heat much faster.

[Bohandas]

I think I've found a relevant passage in Dracula, albeit one pertaining to garlic and crucifixes rather than running water:

"...Therefore I shall fix some things she like not—garlic and a crucifix—and so seal up the door of the tomb. She is young as Un-Dead, and will heed. Moreover, these are only to prevent her coming out; they may not prevail on her wanting to get in; for then the Un-Dead is desperate, and must find the line of least resistance, whatsoever it may be..." -Dracula, chapter 15

[Boggartbae]

If a vampire in Pathfinder fell into water, couldn't they just assume gaseous form and be expelled instantly, since that spell prevents you from entering water?

Also a not on mirrors: casting disguise self to make yourself look exactly like yourself would create an illusion of you that sits just over your skin, and it would have a reflection.

[Caelestion]

Can undead use disguise self to appear as a humanoid?

[Boggartbae]

Can undead use disguise self to appear as a humanoid?

By RAW, the answer is no, but also by RAW, the spell gives you +10 to disguise checks no matter what, and disguising yourself as a different race only gives a -2 penalty to the check.

If I were the DM, I would say that someone like a vampire could do it, but maybe a skulking cyst couldn't.

[Caelestion]

There's also the large penalties for assuming the form of a specific person (i.e. yourself).

[ShurikVch]

Disguise Undead (from Spell Compendium) designed exactly to mask Undead as living creatures, and lasts 24 hours

http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/ghostwalk_gallery/88566_620_86.jpg

[Rijan_Sai]

My two quick cp on vampire weaknesses:

Garlic: Vampires have heightened senses, and the strong odor of garlic is repulsive to them. (Why garlic specifically? No idea... maybe the first vampire had an allergy to garlic in life?)

Mirrors: Mirrors reveal the truth of the beast; IIRC, in folk lore mirrors were said to reflect the soul, and a soulless being like a vampire would thus be invisible in one. There's no real (physical) harm to the vampire, but they are generally vain creatures and being presented with the truth of their nature is psychologically problematic.

Now the "Big Three;" these are ones that the vampire instinctively avoids for self preservation.

Holy Symbol: While the symbol itself is no real harm to the vampire, these are representative of powers that very much can hurt it. Specifically, the gods and their clerics; those that can Turn/Rebuke/Destroy, etc. That's not even getting into the spells that can do far worse!

Running Water*: I tend to see this one as more "Extreme Phobia" than "Magical Compulsion." Consider that immersion in running water is effectively acid to a vampire, (seriously, after a mere 3 rounds under running water, a vampire is completely destroyed,) it would make sense that a vampire would want to stay as far away from it as possible!

Sun: Again, vampires instinctively know the Pelor hates them with a burning passion, and standing in the gaze of his great eye is both deadly and stupid.

1: It is known that phobias affect different people in different ways. For example, I myself have acrophobia to an extent, and have had difficulty in the past going across the Royal Gorge suspension bridge in southern Colorado. I have no doubt that someone with a more severe case would not even be able to get close to the edge of that thing!
By that reasoning, a vampire could, if far enough away, fly over the water (how far? That's one that I'm not sure about, although prior thoughts and comments in this topic have gone over that.); a bridge might be more difficult, but one could possible willingly cross if motivated enough; possibly houserule in a will save if you need mechanical representation. Also, the question of how much water is needed was brought up at one point: I would say, enough to be "immersed" in. If it's shallow enough that the vampire's boot barely gets wet, it's probably not going to be of any concern to the creature.
Slight digression: given that it specifies running water, one wonders if a standard vampire could cross, and possibly even go under, a calm lake, provided there is not a significant underwater current to be considered "running water..."

...sorry if the later part of this post went awry... I kind of lost my train of thought somewhere around "The Big Three," and had to catch back up to it!