How to pitch woo in 5e

[Erose]

I wish I could begin with a five paragraph 'How to' guide so help me out here.

[Sigreid]

You grab Woo the butcher by his collar and his belt, spin like a shot putter and let go when centrifugal force pulls your arms out straight.

[Dappershire]

3 Reasons To Pitch Woo With The GOO!


1) Nothing says love, like mind control!
2) Tentacles. Wenches love tentacles.
3) Two easiest ways to get a maiden to lay with you? Being funny, and Eldritch Blast. Lets hope she laughs at your jokes. Or Else.

[Corran]

Grab musical instrument proficiency: guitar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOzkN8dHnjk).
Learn language: Ital.... ahem.... draconic.
Noble background might have some situational value.

@Dappershire: The GOOlock has nothing on the lore bard. The lore bard specializes in wooing. Why do you think they go to college?

[Dappershire]

@Dappershire: The GOOlock has nothing on the lore bard. The lore bard specializes in wooing. Why do you think they go to college?


Lets be fair here though. Nobody trusts a bard. A farmer would rather trust his daughters to the care of a necromancer, before a bard.


New addendum! Nothing says romantic gesture like murder and animate dead.
Like mother always said, "Zombie girls don't say no!"

Black Arts: The Eternal Love.

[bluthunda]

Lol I feel dumb is this thread really about making a character who is good at wooing girls or is there something I'm missing ?

[Talyn]

Lets be fair here though. Nobody trusts a bard. A farmer would rather trust his daughters to the care of a necromancer, before a bard.


New addendum! Nothing says romantic gesture like murder and animate dead.
Like mother always said, "Zombie girls don't say no!"

Black Arts: The Eternal Love.

...that's horrifying. Thanks for that.

Having intimate relations with the undead you created if you are a necromancer is, you know, pretty rape-y. Either they are mindless puppets under your control (in which it's just a particularly creepy and disrespectful to the former person method of self-gratification), or they are intelligent, but under your control (in which case, rape).

I guess if they were fully free-willed, it could be okay, if that's your thing. You'd still need to be careful about setting boundaries.

I can't believe I just spent time thinking about this.

[Corran]

Lol I feel dumb is this thread really about making a character who is good at wooing girls or is there something I'm missing ?
It's about optimization.

But it does not necessarily have to do with wooing girls specifically. Here is an example (took me some time to dig this up, but it was worth it if not for anything else, just so I could read it one more time:smallbiggrin:):


Another thing I did, more recently, was playing a Great Old One Warlock who I played essentially like she was a succubus. She too wanted to bag a prince but he wasn't as interested in her. So I continued to try to woo him in various ways until I hit level 14. Then I beat the crap out of him until he fell unconscious and turned him into my thrall. Thrall effect is permanent unless you use it on another creature or someone removes curse from him, so I had him under my spell forever at that point. Can also communicate over any distance telepathically with him, so I was able to do all kinds of cool stuff.


Edit:

Lets be fair here though. Nobody trusts a bard. A farmer would rather trust his daughters to the care of a necromancer, before a bard.
Ok, yeah, I guess.....

[Steampunkette]

3 Reasons To Pitch Woo With The GOO!


1) Nothing says love, like mind control!
2) Tentacles. Wenches love tentacles.
3) Two easiest ways to get a maiden to lay with you? Being funny, and Eldritch Blast. Lets hope she laughs at your jokes. Or Else.

1) Rape by drugging.
2) Socially linked to Rape but maybe you're just being silly.
3) Rape by coercion.

... wow that's just... horrible.


Lets be fair here though. Nobody trusts a bard. A farmer would rather trust his daughters to the care of a necromancer, before a bard.


New addendum! Nothing says romantic gesture like murder and animate dead.
Like mother always said, "Zombie girls don't say no!"

Black Arts: The Eternal Love.

... murder followed by Necrophillia in the event someone turns you down for sex... great.

This thread went from goofy fun to Rape and sexual entitlement enforced by murder -real- fast and that's kind of horrible.

[Dappershire]

Don't know how to respond to this, so, dig my hole deeper.


1) Rape by drugging.
2) Socially linked to Rape but maybe you're just being silly.
3) Rape by coercion.

... wow that's just... horrible.



... murder followed by Necrophillia in the event someone turns you down for sex... great.

This thread went from goofy fun to Rape and sexual entitlement enforced by murder -real- fast and that's kind of horrible.

1) Mind control is not a drug. Drugs cost gold.
2) Cthulhu cultists disagree.
3) Apparently you don't think I'm funny. What's your AC again?

And I never stated the necromancer got turned down. Sometimes something is so beautiful, you have to kill it. So it stays that way. And is yours forever. Gothic literature is littered with that stuff.

And its DnD. Setting novels are full of these acts. Obviously, its going to be more villain npc, then heroic pc utilizing the choices, but it follows the lore.

[Corran]

Ok, I've got to link this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbrCLejR_lE&list=PLDA3A124C6CD2B25B&index=2
(2:18)

[Steampunkette]

Don't know how to respond to this, so, dig my hole deeper.

1) Mind control is not a drug. Drugs cost gold.
2) Cthulhu cultists disagree.
3) Apparently you don't think I'm funny. What's your AC again?

And I never stated the necromancer got turned down. Sometimes something is so beautiful, you have to kill it. So it stays that way. And is yours forever. Gothic literature is littered with that stuff.

And its DnD. Setting novels are full of these acts. Obviously, its going to be more villain npc, then heroic pc utilizing the choices, but it follows the lore.

The effects are the same. And generally I don't find rape jokes funny. Weird.

Gothic Literature is littered with that stuff, it's true. But it tends to have the rejection come first and the killing/preserving come after the spurning to highlight the wickedness of the villain. But the "Never say no" part makes rejection implicit. Or, at least, that's how it read to me.

And there's definitely a history of very problematic tropes in D&D. But as we get further and further away from that era we become more and more aware of just how cringeworthy those tropes are. Kind of like how Ace Ventura was kinda funny when I was a kid, but looking back at how the whole thing is one big transphobic joke almost breaks my heart.

I don't have a problem with jokes. I love lots of comedy and styles. But this thread went from 0 to Rape faster than a chicken sovereign glued to a hyperdrive. And that **** is pretty disturbing.

[mgshamster]

Assuming this is about in-character pitching of woo, it's the same way you would in real life.

Start with the charlatan background. Get on a stage and tell people of the miracles of [random item]. Have a friend in the crowd that isn't known to be associated with you. Invite a "random" person on stage. Give the example of how your miracle item cured/improved/whatever the volunteer.

Sell your crap.

Escape town before anyone realizes they were scammed.

(Same thing occurs in the modern world, except change out the stage for an internet site and change out the "random" volunteer/associate for fake testimonials.)

[Steampunkette]

Assuming this is about in-character pitching of woo, it's the same way you would in real life.

Start with the charlatan background. Get on a stage and tell people of the miracles of [random item]. Have a friend in the crowd that isn't known to be associated with you. Invite a "random" person on stage. Give the example of how your miracle item cured/improved/whatever the volunteer.

Sell your crap.

Escape town before anyone realizes they were scammed.

(Same thing occurs in the modern world, except change out the stage for an internet site and change out the "random" volunteer/associate for fake testimonials.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAA4Gg9-jm0

[Steampunkette]

To actually answer the OP:

Start out with what you know about your character and the target of their affections.

Do they have similar interests?
Do they have similar goals?
Do they have similar personalities?
Are they alignment compatible?

I know the Hero/Villain romance angle can be a lot of fun, but when you're trying to save the world while your loved one is destroying it, the romance can burn out like the tavern where you first met that they torched.

If the person isn't an adventurer, but you are, what kinds of methods of communication do you have available to you? I'd love to have a Teleportation Circle home every night while I'm out adventuring, but it's just not cost effective and leaves my party vulnerable to night-time attacks. And a long distance relationship needs strong communication if it's going to work!

You should try to think of these logistics in advance, before you admit your undying love for the person, otherwise you might just seem a bit selfish.

The second step is to engage your potential paramour in a manner that is representative of who you are as a character... unless who you are as a character is a person who values grand and sweeping gestures. Grand gestures are liable to intimidate or frighten a potential loved one. So before commissioning a troupe of balladeers to follow them around and play music expressing your love, consider toning it down to a single short poem, cute and concise, with a hint of flattery. Avoid limericks, though. I cannot stress enough to avoid limericks.

Whatever the method of engaging your paramour, be sure to lay out three important things:

1) Your interest. This need not be a grand description of eternal love (and it's better if it isn't) but should be explicit.
2) A proposed activity together, whether dining or theatre or the slaughter of a tribe of orcs/halflings/whatever.
3) A sincere request for a response.

It's always best to be honest from the outset. And if your paramour is a spy intent on allowing the wooing to get close, at least they'll appreciate the upfront honesty of the gesture as they prepare to stab you in the back.

After that, it's just a matter of doing your best to be yourself and hope that the you that you are is a you they will like.

[mgshamster]

There's a lot of confusion for what "woo" means here.

It could mean "to woo a person," which is to try to get them to be infatuated with you. This seems to be what most people here think it is, but then if that was the case, the OP wouldn't be asking how to pitch it. To pitch something is to try to sell it. If it were to woo a person, he would have asked, "How do I write a guide on wooing people" rather than "how do I pitch woo."

So the other common definition of Woo is pseudoscience (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Woo). Here, the context makes the most sense. To pitch woo is to attempt to sell pseudoscience and fake products.

But really, only the OP can tell us what they really meant.

[hymer]

There's a lot of confusion for what "woo" means here.

Have you never heard of Pitching Woo, the Chinese baseball star?

[mgshamster]

Have you never heard of Pitching Woo, the Chinese baseball star?

I knew I was missing one!

[hymer]

I knew I was missing one!

Come to think of it, the mistake is entirely mine. 'Woo' is obviously a Korean name rather than Chinese, rendering my otherwise clever point entirely invalid, as well as nicked.

[Sigreid]

There's a lot of confusion for what "woo" means here.

It could mean "to woo a person," which is to try to get them to be infatuated with you. This seems to be what most people here think it is, but then if that was the case, the OP wouldn't be asking how to pitch it. To pitch something is to try to sell it. If it were to woo a person, he would have asked, "How do I write a guide on wooing people" rather than "how do I pitch woo."

So the other common definition of Woo is pseudoscience (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Woo). Here, the context makes the most sense. To pitch woo is to attempt to sell pseudoscience and fake products.

But really, only the OP can tell us what they really meant.

I have only ever heard the term pitching woo in the context of attempting to romance a woman.

[mgshamster]

I have only ever heard the term pitching woo in the context of attempting to romance a woman.

I've heard of wooing someone, but I've never heard of pitching woo in the same context.

Looking it up; you're absolutely correct.

'You pitch woo' is, according to the free dictionary, "Court, make love to, flatter, as in They sat on the porch swing, pitching woo, or He's an excellent salesman, adept at pitching woo. This idiom, which may be obsolescent, uses pitch in the sense of "talk." [ Slang; early 1800s]."

What I did was take a sales term, Pitch, )which is: "In selling technique, a sales presentation or sales pitch is a line of talk that attempts to persuade someone or something, with a planned sales presentation strategy of a product or service designed to initiate and close a sale of the product or service.") and I combined that with a modern definition of Woo (which is pseudoscience like snake oil), to define a snake oil salesmen as someone "pitching woo."

But in this regard, I recognize that I am mistaken, and there is a much older term than what I knew about.

So you are absolutely correct.

[Armored Walrus]

On the other hand, a snake oil salesman is not an inaccurate description for how some folks go about pitching woo.

[strangebloke]

Yeah, the business meaning of woo is derived from the romantic one, not the other way around.

I see a few approaches here:

First of all, we're looking at CHA based classes. Strength might be nice for a male, but I'd argue that charisma will be much more consistent.

The Bard is of course the master of romance. He is the most articulate and therefore the most capable of expressing his terms of endearment. His song is literally magic, and he can easily max the relevant skills. (Persuade, deceive, perform, possibly disguise)

Paladins have their place as well. Sure they're not going to have those insane skill checks, but they're so gosh-darn earnest and noble. Also, let's be honest: many girls area sucker for a guy in uniform. The farmer would never trust his daughter alone with a Bard, but he'd shake the paladin's hand and give him his blessing. Probably better if you're playing a guy than a girl though. Guys might have their fragile egos challenged by a chick that can handily beat their ass.

For that reason, females who want to pitch woo are probably better off as sorcerers. Sorcerer practically has 'i come from a rich family' as a class feature, which is its own level of appeal. They have other attributes which probably appeal to the make hind brain. I can already see the cigs turning slowly in the peasant boys brain: 'sets things on fire ->hot'.

[Steampunkette]

I dunno... I feel like Warlocks might work really well for Woo-Pitching.

If only because of the Bad Boy/Bad Girl vibe to go along with their naturally high charisma and unholy skill in persuasion...

As to guys with Fragile Egos: If they can't handle the muscle on the battlefield they sure couldn't handle it in the bedroom. You're better off without them.

Never be with someone who asks you to be less than you are. That has abusive relationship written -all- over it.

[Bohandas]

Lol I feel dumb is this thread really about making a character who is good at wooing girls or is there something I'm missing ?

Apparently.

Though I came to the thread expecting in-game justifications for pyramid power, primary preception, and homeopathy :smallbiggrin:

[strangebloke]

If only because of the Bad Boy/Bad Girl vibe to go along with their naturally high charisma and unholy skill in persuasion...

As to guys with Fragile Egos: If they can't handle the muscle on the battlefield they sure couldn't handle it in the bedroom. You're better off without them.

Never be with someone who asks you to be less than you are. That has abusive relationship written -all- over it.

'Pitch woo' suggested romance, rather than simple attraction. If we're just talkin attraction, then yes, the warlock is definitely a contender. Although I suppose romance is on the table there as well... people who feel that they can 'redeem' the person in question.

And yes, such a guy is pretty much worthless. But I was framing my question from an optimization perspective. IE: how would build a character to woo the maximum number of persons.

[Steampunkette]

'Pitch woo' suggested romance, rather than simple attraction. If we're just talkin attraction, then yes, the warlock is definitely a contender. Although I suppose romance is on the table there as well... people who feel that they can 'redeem' the person in question.

And yes, such a guy is pretty much worthless. But I was framing my question from an optimization perspective. IE: how would build a character to woo the maximum number of persons.

Sometimes even the bad boys...

http://digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/14/27/768x774/gallery_ustv-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-spike.jpg

Are romantics at heart.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/70/3d/2d/703d2dee48d4a648ba33e2e3ea6a6a92.jpg

... okay... bad example. But you know what I mean! Just 'cause someone has sworn service to the Seelie Court or read from a book of eldritch knowledge doesn't mean they're gonna be a complete douchnozzle.

And there's something to be said for a lover who serves Lady Fierna...

[RyumaruMG]

... and here I thought this would be a thread about how to pitch a John Woo style campaign.

[8wGremlin]

this might be relevant

http://www.bluestockings.ca/2017/06/breaking-consent-dominate-charm-person.html (http://www.bluestockings.ca/2017/06/breaking-consent-dominate-charm-person.html)



Recently I was playing D&D and we were choosing our spells. I'm a warlock, and a chaotic evil character (pirates, right?). Friend was on the list of options. I looked at it and remembered the days of Charm Person. Those days when you were caught in an alley and the brigands looked like just maybe, maybe they could be reasoned with. And you'd roll diplomacy, inevitable fail, but before the GM could toss you on your ass with an attack of opportunity, you'd reach out, touch that ugly as sin bandit, and charm his ass off.


Ah, magic.


Whether it's Charm Person in D&D, Ron Weasley drinking a love potion in Harry Potter, or the vampire hypnotizing you into liking them in Monsterhearts, our culture, and evidently gaming, has had some serious problems with consent in the past (and today). As our culture begins to shift into one where rape jokes aren't cool anymore and consent is taught in schools, gaming seems to have yet to catch up.

[strangebloke]

Sometimes even the bad boys are romantics at heart.

... okay... bad example. But you know what I mean! Just 'cause someone has sworn service to the Seelie Court or read from a book of eldritch knowledge doesn't mean they're gonna be a complete douchnozzle.

And there's something to be said for a lover who serves Lady Fierna...

Sure, fair enough.

I'm just saying that a warlock is going to have to face an uphill battle with regard to most people. In a world where succubi and incubi are real and not just stories made to scare teenagers into chastity (or to serve as porn for adults) I imagine that your average npc is going to be very cautious around the devilishly handsome spellweaver.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Have you never heard of Pitching Woo, the Chinese baseball star?

Actually, he's not the pitcher. Woo's on first base.


Thread just got sillier....

[strangebloke]

Sometimes even the bad boys are romantics at heart.

... okay... bad example. But you know what I mean! Just 'cause someone has sworn service to the Seelie Court or read from a book of eldritch knowledge doesn't mean they're gonna be a complete douchnozzle.

And there's something to be said for a lover who serves Lady Fierna...

Sure, fair enough.

I'm just saying that a warlock is going to have to face an uphill battle with regard to most people. In a world where succubi and incubi are real and not just stories made to scare teenagers into chastity (or to serve as porn for adults) I imagine that your average npc is going to be very cautious around the devilishly handsome spellweaver.


this might be relevant

http://www.bluestockings.ca/2017/06/breaking-consent-dominate-charm-person.html (http://www.bluestockings.ca/2017/06/breaking-consent-dominate-charm-person.html)

Rowling is at least aware of the troubling implications of love potions, given Tom Riddle's backstory.

Also, I'd add: murder and mind control are two of the most common tricks in the PCs toolbox. As long as there are any mind-effecting spells, this sort of thing will happen in gaming. Moreover, its tough to beat down on a player for this kind of behavior, when frankly, anything else would be unrealistic. Nobles committed rape all the time in the actual middle ages. Magic just makes that problem worse. Perhaps another thread on how to deal with this at the table should be made.

[Gryndle]

Steampunkette has made most of the points that I would have.

Only in context of gaming could I even be a part of discussion like this. If someone were to try to draw me into this conversation relevant to real life, the best they could hope for is being informed of their lack of value to life via a long string of obscenities aimed at their character and lineage. If pushed, they might even get a preview of how much I know about anatomy and the breaking thereof.

But in the context of gaming and fiction, it is a bit different. Even then I do not find the concept of rape in any variety to be amusing. But the topic CAN have value when telling a story.

At my table we do deal with a lot of uncomfortable adult topics. We even allow chaotic evil characters if all in the group agree that it is acceptable for that group of characters. And that ultimately means the game includes wanton violence, murder and general mayhem. But there are still lines that need not be crossed. Rape is the big one. Sure it can be used as part of the story, but only npc on npc and as a motivator for the characters.
IF one of my PCs were to rape, or even threaten it, I'm not exactly sure how I would handle it, but I do know it would NOT go well for that character, and possibly not that player.

My opinion is colored by experience, though. One of my proudest accomplishments, was the privilege of training a young lady that had sadly been a victim. Watching her grow over the years from a withdrawn fragile thing, who I had to earn her trust enough just to get close and come into contact to teach her. She grew into a considerably dangerous young woman, and she came out of her shell, not only in my dojo but in her life outside of it as well. To know I had some part in that, well that fills me with more pride than all my certificates and trophies combined.

So no, I do not see the humor value in this at all. The only value to this discussion I can find is in how to make a truly loathsome villain.

[Steampunkette]

Perhaps another thread on how to deal with this at the table should be made.

Great idea!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?528372-Domination-Manipulation-and-Magical-Control-at-the-Game-Table&p=22132820#post22132820

[Sigreid]

Interesting that this thread is now about rape. Pitching woo generally refers to trying to win the object of your affection's heart through kindness, sweet words and gestures grand and small.

[Hrugner]

If we're talking about the age old art of seduction then this lands pretty soundly in the "no rules, ask your DM" category of things as there is no mechanical support. Practically speaking, the method could be really really stupid, or tedious, or gross, depending on your DMs idea of romance. The question of whether or not to use magic to either improve yourself or modify your target is also there and has no real world analogy. Modifying your target isn't really like drugging someone since they do get a saving throw that reflects their own personal will power, so I'm not sure it's much different from lying, buying expensive gifts, or making yourself indispensable waiting for a moment of weakness. Still pretty slimey though. Improving yourself should be fine as you aren't going beyond D&D's version of plastic surgery and wigs. Just make sure you can keep your disguise self up all day and reap the benefits of being a 10. Just remember to turn the lights off. Spring for a true polymorph if things get serious.

In my experience such things are a waste of everyone else's time. I recommend not basing your character around seduction.

[RazDelacroix]

In the interests of being silly, here are my thoughts on how to PITCH WOO BY CLASS!!!
Disclaimer: Do not take these pitches seriously. Author has never been successful in the woo department!

Artificer: "Can I make the bed creak? Well sure but why do that on purpose? I think I could just as easily make a noiseless mattress, blankets of ultimate comfort, and probably dream pillows of fulfillment."

Barbarian: "Tis odd. When I am around you, I feel no rage, just this sensation of restful bliss... One moment, DAMN IT BARD STOP WITH THE MUSIC! IT'S CLEARLY UPSETTING THE LADY!"

Bard: "I assure you, I have a steady job."

Cleric: "We're talking? And you like me? IT IS A MIRACLE!"

Druid: "Want to take a walk on the civilized side?"

Fighter: "Rest assured, I will stand by you through thick and thin. At least until you need to throw me at the giant. Then, I will come back with a trophy for you."

Monk: "Two words to describe your form. Perfect Body."

Mystic: "I know I'm still a bit young, and I know you won't wait for me... Even so, maybe we can try it out?"

Paladin: "I vow to love you beyond death."

Ranger: "Ach! You got right to the heart of me! Call a cleric! It this contagious?"

Rogue: "I know I am a greedy thief and all... But I want you to have this, it's the key to my heart."

Sorcerer: "Do you want me to put on a tie before the magic happens?"

Warlock: "Why no, I have not read that book of forbidden arts before... Why are you smirking?"

Wizard: "I do not fear the experiment, I fear the results!"

[Anderlith]

Just play a paladin of a fertility god/goddess.

>Save people
>Use that massive Cha & socials to get the person or townsfolk into you
>Tell them they should honor your god/ess by getting it on. Either town wide orgies or just a quickie in the villains lair, doesn't matter