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Hiest, monkey
2007-08-05, 08:01 PM
Welll no not really I just need an answer to my question.

I'm a starting DM, so almost needless to say I go out of my way to try and be original in my campaign (whether I'm succsesful or not I dunno, but hey, that's my players' problem.)

So I had an idea of different emergencies in which npc's could save the pc's when things get ugly.

One being that mardikaine mansion trick.

Leomund's secure shelter

and the low level, partly reusable one, being portable hole/bag of holding. the people climb in and while there is only ten minutes of air (RAW) you could smash a bottle of air.

THat's my question since there is technically unlimited air in the bottle, would you say that the bag would always have unlimited air?

Or just say the magic item is broken?

Tyger
2007-08-05, 08:05 PM
Or just say the magic item is broken?

Yup. Smash the bottle and the item is broken. Basic rules for destroying and damaging magic items are in the SRD and the DMG.

But the low level solution is, of course, Rope Trick.

PinkysBrain
2007-08-05, 08:12 PM
Why smash it though? You can just use it as intended.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-08-05, 08:42 PM
and the low level, partly reusable one, being portable hole/bag of holding. the people climb in and while there is only ten minutes of air (RAW) you could smash a bottle of air.

THat's my question since there is technically unlimited air in the bottle, would you say that the bag would always have unlimited air?

Or just say the magic item is broken?

That'd be just like killing the goose that laid the golden eggs.

NullAshton
2007-08-05, 08:51 PM
Just uncork the bottle of air, and leave it in the bag of holding with you. Infinite air, no smashing needed.

Eldritch_Ent
2007-08-05, 09:13 PM
I'm sure you could have your DM agree to let you enchant a "Bag of Infinite Holding and Air" for the cost of both.

Prometheus
2007-08-06, 10:20 AM
Careful about relying on NPCs to save the PCs to heavily. You don't want Deus Ex Machina (google/wikipedia it). A safety net is nice, transforming a combat into a cinema scene is less fun.

goat
2007-08-06, 11:53 AM
Looking it up, the DMG says that the bottle will produce air in an airless environment such as vacuum or underwater. The bag/hole is neither of these, so I think in that situation the bottle by RAW is useless anyway.

I've been thinking about this for a while now, and I think if I had a player who tried the bottle of air trick, I probably wouldn't allow it, it makes bags of holding a bit too useful.

Wolf_Shade
2007-08-06, 04:00 PM
Looking it up, the DMG says that the bottle will produce air in an airless environment such as vacuum or underwater. The bag/hole is neither of these, so I think in that situation the bottle by RAW is useless anyway.

I've been thinking about this for a while now, and I think if I had a player who tried the bottle of air trick, I probably wouldn't allow it, it makes bags of holding a bit too useful.

Generally the use of "such as" does not imply the following list will be exclusive. It simply means the list contains examples. A bag of holding is an airless environment.

Fax Celestis
2007-08-06, 04:11 PM
portable hole/bag of holding

DO NOT couple these items. Planar rifts are bad news.

Fireball.Man.Guy.
2007-08-06, 04:28 PM
I figure it as the bottle generates, not holds infinite air. otherwise that would make it a slightly modifies white hole, and then an infinite number of catgirls will die for the crazy physics loop.

PhallicWarrior
2007-08-06, 04:48 PM
Looking it up, the DMG says that the bottle will produce air in an airless environment such as vacuum or underwater. The bag/hole is neither of these, so I think in that situation the bottle by RAW is useless anyway.

But once the creatures inside the BoH use up all the air, the bottle will start supplying air into the now-airless void.

Indon
2007-08-06, 05:07 PM
I've been thinking about this for a while now, and I think if I had a player who tried the bottle of air trick, I probably wouldn't allow it, it makes bags of holding a bit too useful.

Useful, but still potentially risky. What if the bag becomes damaged in some way with someone inside it?

ThorFluff
2007-08-06, 05:37 PM
or what if someone just tosses the bag into lava, or just a lake?

goat
2007-08-06, 09:00 PM
I suppose I just don't like it being thought of as nothing but a air producing decanter of endless water. It's the way that the srd says:


When taken to any airless environment it retains air within it at all times, continually renewing its contents. This means that a character can draw air out of the bottle to breathe. The bottle can even be shared by multiple characters who pass it around.

I just read that as saying that the air stays in the bottle until someone sucks it out. I certainly wouldn't want to let it just spew air constantly.

captain_decadence
2007-08-06, 10:52 PM
But once the creatures inside the BoH use up all the air, the bottle will start supplying air into the now-airless void.

People don't use up air when they breathe. They just exchange oxygen for carbon dioxide. There will still be air in the bag of holding, it just won't be breathable air.

Logic
2007-08-06, 10:59 PM
People don't use up air when they breathe. They just exchange oxygen for carbon dioxide. There will still be air in the bag of holding, it just won't be breathable air.

At least, not to most living organisms of the "Animal" Kingdom. I suppose a Plant creature in there would be able to breathe the carbon dioxide. But, if you have a spare plant creature to take into the bag of holding for you, he can breathe your carbon dioxide, and you can breathe his oxygen!

Generic PC
2007-08-06, 11:05 PM
so, a Plant and you in a Portable Hole (or Bag of Holding) = Safe?

Saint George
2007-08-06, 11:09 PM
You have to factor in that plant creatures need sunlight to survive and to produce oxygen. So... not so much.


Also, 99% of D&D plant creatures are very carnivorous.

Subotei
2007-08-07, 11:00 AM
Looking it up, the DMG says that the bottle will produce air in an airless environment such as vacuum or underwater. The bag/hole is neither of these, so I think in that situation the bottle by RAW is useless anyway.

One bag of holding
One bottle of air
One bucket of water, to hold the bottle down in
A straw to suck out the air with.

Do-able?

Eventually the bag is gonna fill with expelled air - once either the weight or volume limit is reached? Would the bag then split open?:smallbiggrin: