Stealing Dragonmark :)

[TrillQaz]

Dear Playground,

I'm currently beating my head against the wall trying to figure something out. How would you go around permanently stealing Siberys Dragonmark? Is that even possible under regular rules? Do the Dragonamarks reside in body or in mind so to speak, I cant seem to find this information anywhere?

The issue is that the Dragonmark in question is key to greater power and essentially MacGuffin/Plot Device... And I being ambitious spellcaster need an insurance or backup plan in case of inner-team conflict of interests or some other unexpected turn of events :smallbiggrin: In the end everything will be up to GM's vision but I would like to come up with something in accordance with general rules anyway to build some kid of plan to present to her(as she appreciates such planning and may very well give me a way if my ideas are cool enough).

The worst part is that we are at low level(3) right now but we have few thousand GP so paid spellcasting/scrolls/contingencies are possible solution if i manage to defraud those. Low level is a problem but beside lotsa sorcerer/wizard spells of lvl 0/1 i can also use "Spell Storing Item" Infusion :smallcool: so with little preparation i have access to all 0-4lvl spells. And i possess Ancestral Relic so i can create any Magic Item i will be able to afford.

What spells can i use to take control of the possessor/steal his DragonMark? What kind of creatures/items are capable to do so? I know about things like Fusion/Astral seed combo(this would almost definitely work if I understand this correctly as it allows me to get control of all participant abilities) or Mindswitch(if the Mark is physical -the wording seems to be like that "physical manifestation of draconic prophecy..." although it's Su if I'm correct so the shouldn't give me this power). Greater Doppleganger is something that i thought about as well but becoming one might be tricky :smallsigh: On the side of taking control what is possible beside Dominate Person/Mindrape?

Lastly what kind of plot-based schemes could ambitious caster come up with? Some kind of ritual involving rather large chunks of Siberys shards, physically grafting mark to my body etc.?

In the end I would very much like to avoid hurting the current possessor of the Mark but if it cant be avoided then... Well, I will take any suggestions :smallwink:

Now come forth to my aid forces of Munchkinery! :smallbiggrin:
thanks in advance,

[noob]

Step 1:stun the person with the dragonmark you want.
Step 2:use fusion on the now willing person.
Step 3:cast astral seed on yourself or cast mind seed on someone to which you want to give your powers and the dragonmark.
Alternatively use iron heart surge to remove the fact you do not have that dragon mark.
Or cast truename dispel on that dragonmark user to remove the dragonmark and edit all the universe and make the universe exactly what you want(casting truename dispel gives omniscience and allows to change everything according to some interpretations)
Or use manipulate form to give yourself the power "steal dragonmark: the owner of that power can steal all the dragonmarks of the universe instantly"
Or cast dominate on the dragonmark user and make it manifest mind seed on you.
Alternatively if your gm is an human and not the gm from TO just bribe your gm into allowing to create a custom ritual or epic spell to steal dragonmarks.(technically as long as you have gm allowance you can do everything with epic spells)

[the_david]

I think dominating would be the easiest solution. Stuff like Magic Jar won't work and you can't just skin a person to get a dragonmark. Dragonmarks won't work for the undead so killing someone just to raise them as a zombie wouldn't work either.

It's a shame really, because the RAW seems to get in the way of the fluff.

Did you know the Dragonmarks were based on the bloodlines from the Birthright campaign setting? It would be a lot easier to get a bloodline in Birthright though. The only thing you'd need to do would be to kill somebody with bloodline abilities.

Edit: Now I want to play in a Birthright campaign...

[TrillQaz]

Thanks for the tips

No, my GM is a human being and not a RAWmachine "yes to everything that's written" but I like to work in the context of mechanical rules for enterprises like that :smallwink:

I already stated that i will be looking for a fluffy way of doing this and hopefully it will lead me to few(dozens) of sessions of plotting my way up but dominate my be a decent backup anyway, probably gonna buy myself some buffed variant as a word-activated contingency.

As far as i understand the Mark is more of a key or vessel and part of the power of the Mark has already been shared among me and another teammate so maybe I can dominate subject in question and convince her to "lend" me the rest of it if that is even possible. :smallsmile:

EDIT:
Did you know the Dragonmarks were based on the bloodlines from the Birthright campaign setting? It would be a lot easier to get a bloodline in Birthright though. The only thing you'd need to do would be to kill somebody with bloodline abilities.

Yeah, Highlander rules are awesome :smallbiggrin:

[Inevitability]

An Illithid Savant can steal class features, including Siberys Mark (Sp).

[DrKerosene]

I believe there is a psionic version that you can pair with other psionic powers, but there is a spell called "Rip the Supernatural" that should technically work.

[TrillQaz]

It is pretty good solution in itself but the problem with that is extremely long way to go because I would have to either become one, which will take at least couple of levels, or take control of one but at this point I can very well focus on taking control of the original host.

During the hunt, Powerphage prestige class have been brought to my attention. It's 3rd party but one level is enough to gain single ability in a manner very similar to Savant's feature. The problem is that it requires the subject to be dead and that can have some consequences that I'm not aware of. :smalleek:

[TrillQaz]

but there is a spell called "Rip the Supernatural" that should technically work.

You mean "Ability Rip"? The problem with that is that it only works for an hour per level - Maybe I could pair it with some fluff way of making it permanent... :smallbiggrin:


I believe there is a psionic version that you can pair with other psionic powers,

Sorry, no idea what you mean. Psionic Dominate? :smalleek:

[Inevitability]

You mean "Ability Rip"? The problem with that is that it only works for an hour per level - Maybe I could pair it with some fluff way of making it permanent... :smallbiggrin:

For a fluff way, asking for a Permanency adaption should be enough.

Ability Rip fairly explicitly doesn't allow the transferral of class features, though. Isn't the dragonmark in question the consequence of taking two levels in the Heir of Siberys class?

[TrillQaz]

This one is a MacGuffin/Plot Device and manifested on a little girl, hence trying to avoid more gruesome solutions :smalleek:

EDIT: Permanency adaptation was also the first thing that came to my mind -I definitely have to run this through my GM

[BWR]

Adapt Bloodline theft spells from Birthright.

[Epic Legand]

There is no question, you can steal a Dragonmark, it happened in one of the original books....However, the original user lost an official Dragonmark, the new user gained an aberrant Dragonmark. It was a big ritual, lots of prep and $ and some made up spells that can only be hand waved by the DM.....Or skip all that and spend a Feat. People develop their marks at many points in life

[Afgncaap5]

Curiously, this very question came up in some of my favorite Eberron books...

In the Draconic Prophecies trilogy by James Wyatt, there's an eldritch machine created by House Cannith (West, I think), royals of Aundair, and a huge group of dragons from Argonnessen. Aundair wants to figure out how to weaponize dragonmarks to rekindle the war, Cannith wants to be able to remove its dependency from the other houses and be able to become its own nation, and the dragons just want a particularly dangerous branch of the prophecy to come true. It's been a while since I read it, but if memory serves its creation involved the use of a massive Siberys shard that fell from the sky, pure dragonfire provided by the leader of the dragons, and tapping into some energy from a bound Rakshasa.

Granted, artifact-level magic technology from a novel is likely 1) not applicable to a given GM's game, and 2) really hard to duplicate ideally if there's a better way using game mechanics. Still, I thought it was worth noting that the question's technically come up before.


-EDIT-

Swordsaged! Note to self, don't leave a reply window open forever...

[TrillQaz]

Those rituals from books will be hard to implement at my level unfortunately. So I will probably going to try and adapt Ability Rip for this particular case and make it permanent with some fluffy requirements from GM. Hopefully i will get something that will require lots of effort but will not be so level specific as major artifacts and pure dragonfire, maybe like special Dragonshard needed for transfer or embedded within my body as a receptacle?

Shenanigans are out of question and I can't graft it but if power itself that the Mark is keyed to is transferable(like I was saying it is apparently just a key or a vessel) then I will keep Dominate person at hand just in case. On that note anyone has some nice examples of transferring huge amounts of magical energies between individuals? :smallsmile:

[Nifft]

Yeah if it's a low-level NPC, just steal the whole NPC.

The dominate person route is fine, paired with modify memory or mindrape.

(... unless maybe you can get an eternal wand of dominate person, but it's only level 3 on a PrC list from a different setting ...)

[mabriss lethe]

A spellthief or ur priest could do it temporarily since both have the capability to steal SLAs, and iirc, all Dragonmark abilities are classified as such.

[TrillQaz]

Again, thanks for all the answers :smallsmile:


Yeah if it's a low-level NPC, just steal the whole NPC.

That made my day :smallbiggrin:

Spellthief or Ur Priest would take a lot of levels out of my build and that's not something I'm eager to do.

[Edivdrone]

There is no question, you can steal a Dragonmark, it happened in one of the original books....However, the original user lost an official Dragonmark, the new user gained an aberrant Dragonmark. It was a big ritual, lots of prep and $ and some made up spells that can only be hand waved by the DM.....Or skip all that and spend a Feat. People develop their marks at many points in life

The discussion was for a Siberis dragonmark. Those can only be obtained via the Heir of Siberis prestige class. Yes, I know I'm 4 years late; as with my next post, I'm putting this up for posterity for others who ask the same question.

[Edivdrone]

I'm aware this post is far to late for use to the original discussion; I'm making it for the sake of posterity to help others that find their way here looking for answers to the same question.

Creating an adaptation of Ability Rip (Serpent Kingdoms, a Forgotten Realms sourcebook) would indeed be the quick and dirty way to do this. While the downside of the spell lasting only 1 hour per caster level was noted, the far greater downside of the PERMANENT loss of a supernatural ability (if such is available), or two levels/hit dice (if there isn't one available). If you are intent on proceeding down this path, coming up with a variant to remove that penalty in favor of a significant material cost or higher spell level would practically be a necessity. From there, persistent spell, Permanency, or the use of the ritual spell rules in Relics and Rituals (3.0 sourcebook by Gary Gygax, never superseded, so still valid) to increase the duration to permanent or beyond.
This would be the gentlest method I'm aware of with regards to the subject the ability is stolen from.

If you don't care about what happens to the person bearing the mark, the Encyclopaedia Arcane: Crossbreeding sourcebook by Mongoose publishing has a few different rituals to steal assorted abilities and features from a target subject, though the target subject WILL NOT survive the use of these rules, which also carry significant risk for the recipient. Assuming you are possessed of morals, you will likely want to limit yourself to using this method as a means of carrying out a death sentence.

To those advocating the use of epic magic; if you're going that far, why not copy or even create the mark in your flesh? The only reason to use epic magic to steal the mark at that point would be as a punishment for the bearer so as to remove the mark from them.

[Edivdrone]

Those rituals from books will be hard to implement at my level unfortunately. So I will probably going to try and adapt Ability Rip for this particular case and make it permanent with some fluffy requirements from GM. Hopefully i will get something that will require lots of effort but will not be so level specific as major artifacts and pure dragonfire, maybe like special Dragonshard needed for transfer or embedded within my body as a receptacle?

Shenanigans are out of question and I can't graft it but if power itself that the Mark is keyed to is transferable(like I was saying it is apparently just a key or a vessel) then I will keep Dominate person at hand just in case. On that note anyone has some nice examples of transferring huge amounts of magical energies between individuals? :smallsmile:

In reading this thread, I couldn't help but be amused that you reject the ritual approach as being too high level, but will instead look to adapting an approach that involves a 7th level spell, which you would have been about 10 caster levels short of being able to pull off, going by your earlier posts.

[daremetoidareyo]

Skin is an organ. Use bovd’s preserve organ spell after fillet the dragon mark off. Graft it to yourself?

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Dragonmarks cannot be taken off the dead, even with necromancy.