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View Full Version : Constructing a muticlass illusionist.



Abstruse
2007-08-05, 09:39 PM
In creating a illusionist where the intent is not so much shadow cheese as to achieve as high a save DC as possible, what combination of feats and PrCs might you use?

So far, I was thinking of taking a gnome (+1) with a level of swordsage, say, in order to gain the shadow trickster feat (+2), and then taking spell focus: illusion (+1) into the master specialist PrC. The PrC grants greater spell focus (another +1) and gives +2 to the DC for illusion-based Will Saves at level 4 of the PrC -- bringing the total up to +7. That, plus a decent INT for a mage would put the DC at a minimum of 21+ for any Will-based illusion save, even before any stat-boosting items are taken into account.

So, is that level of swordsage worth it? Would going into Jade Phoenix Mage be the natural next step from there?

Tellah
2007-08-05, 11:04 PM
Definitely grab up the first Gnome Illusionist substitution level in Races of Stone. It is excellent.

namo
2007-08-06, 01:32 AM
Shadow Weave Magic and Tattoo Focus from the Player Guide to Faerun give +1 DC. They are assorted with possibly iffy RP restrictions though.
Ring of Gnomekind, Dragon 333 (p68) : +1 DC
You can also look at how to reduce your enemies' saves.

Illusion is not a natural specialization for a gish - it's possible, just not optimal. Jade Phoenix is always awesome, but in your case again it doesn't have a lot of synergy (empowered illusions ?).

If you're spending a lot of resources on increasing the DC, you should probably go (almost-) full caster.

Also consider the Chains of Disbelief UA variant (replaces your familiar) - it's in the SRD.

YPU
2007-08-06, 04:45 AM
if you could get your DM to allow the spell casting swordsage variant, then you would actualy have an a small list of 1st level ilusions extra, but otherwise, better not.

Abstruse
2007-08-06, 06:54 AM
If you're spending a lot of resources on increasing the DC, you should probably go (almost-) full caster.

The primary reason I was considering the level of swordsage was the shadow trickster feat -- well, that and the clear typo of x6 skills on the first level, which I quickly realized had to be an error. :smallbiggrin:

What I was thinking of as an alternative was gnome illusionist, into master specialist, straight into shadowcraft mage (from Races of Stone). But some of the maneuvers and stances still caught my eye (Child of Shadow, granting full concealment as a stance, PLUS giving me +2 DC on my illusions due to the feat? Not bad at all...), and the breadth of skills available is very tempting. It's definitely not a traditional gish build.

Abstruse
2007-08-06, 07:19 AM
Definitely grab up the first Gnome Illusionist substitution level in Races of Stone. It is excellent.

Could you elaborate? I mean, I see how dropping most of the figment-illusion spells a level could be useful, but what concrete uses can you see that being put to? (Putting aside the Heighten Spell shadow conjuration metacheese, that is...)

On a related question for anyone in the discussion, why is there this misapprehension that Shadow Conjuration allows using conjuration spells like Teleport? The description of the spell (and of the shadowcraft mage PrC) definitely states it's only for use with conjuration spells of the summoning or creation subtype, not teleportation.

cupkeyk
2007-08-06, 08:43 AM
He can't take tattoo focus because he's not human from Thay. He could take shadow weave magic if he worships Shar or takes the wisdom penalty which doesn't hurt all that much.

MrNexx
2007-08-06, 08:49 AM
Actually, if you have Races of Faerun, there are 3 feats in there that add +1 to DC and spell penetration, for gnomes only, to the three various types of illusion spells.