Build idea: Meatgrinder surgeon, (barbarian rogue healer) does it work?

[Rfkannen]

Howdy!

So I was the guy who said there dm challenged them to build an op build,

While reading through your responses a build popped into my head, and although it probably won't be as strong as a palasorc or anything so it won't work for this, I was wondering if it actually works, or how well you think it would work.

I want this character to be good as much as possible all the way from level 1 to 20. It's a high magic item campaign.

The point of character is to make the most use of the healer feat as possible

Basic idea, start off level 1 as a barbarian, scholar backround, healer feat. Away from book but point buy highest score strength, then con, then dex, then int, than charisma.


Then rogue one, Expertise in athletics and medicine.

One more level in barbarian, you get reckless attack. 3 more levels rogue, take the theif archetype and bump strength. Take 3 levels barbarian, take bear totem, bump streangth. Rest rogue

Pick up two shortawords (use strength), a labcoat, a healers kit, and go to town!

The idea is to fill the same roll as a paladin, be tanky with unarmoured defense and the rogue abilities, be a pretty decent healer with the healer feat being able to be used as a bonus action, be able to shove or grapple to support, use reckless attack so that you always have advantage for sneak attack. I picture this character sorta acting as a party cleric actually.

Does it work? Do you think it doesn't work at a certain level range? Would it be better with only 2 barbarian levels? What about str vs dex? How would you improve it?

[Azgeroth]

hi!

assuming your going V Human?

so, why the high strength? if your going unarmoured and using short swords, no need for it? save for the grapples, but you got that covered with rage and expertise.

so, lets say highest stat should be dex, then con, that covers your unarmored defense, and all the other good stuff from dex..

so point buy!
15, 15, 12, 10, 10, 9

str 10, dex 15, con 15, int 10, wis 9, cha 10. after race,
str 10, dex 16, con 16, int 10, wis 9, cha 10.

first level barb, so you should have..
HP 15
AC 16

with 2 shortswords, thats 1d6+3 MainH. 1d6 OffH +5 to hit with each.

Rage, 2 per day, +2 melee damage. DR, Slashing, Bludgeoning, Piercing.

2nd level rogue,

HP 23
AC 16

Rage, Unarmoured defense, Healer, expertise, Sneak attack (1d6), thieves cant.

+5 to hit, 1d6+3/1d6

3rd level barbarian,

HP 33
AC 16

Rage, Unarmoured defense, Wreckless attack, Danger sense, Healer, Expertise, Sneak attack, thieves cant.

4th level rogue,

same as above, but with cunning action.. you are now 4th, without your ASI, next level should be extra attack (for barb) but your still 2 levels away from an ASI, nevermind extra attack, that does put you behind in some aspects, but as you noted at character level 3, your basically guaranteed sneak attack, though all attacks on you have advantage as a consequence.. your not really getting an awful lot out of the build save for the advantage when you want it, which is nice dont get me wrong, but your going to be at that 16 AC for a good while, its a great point to start with. but your going to have to spend ASI in dex or con to get it up.

ill let you build the rest of it out as i dont know how far your campaign is planning to go (lvl 15?)

[Specter]

I'd just get one rapier. Your bonus action will see a lot of use between Rage, Cunning Action and healing. Dual-wielding here gives you very little.

[Crgaston]

With only 2-3 barbarian levels, I'd go Dex for better AC. Strength only helps when you're raging, and not that much at low levels. Also AFB, but the Healer feat would make the medicine expertise slightly less useful. Also, scimitars instead of short swords, for slashing (like a scalpel)! And with Dex don't forget about the whip... sneak attack with reach!

Great concept!

[Rfkannen]

hi!

assuming your going V Human?

so, why the high strength? if your going unarmoured and using short swords, no need for it? save for the grapples, but you got that covered with rage and expertise.

so, lets say highest stat should be dex, then con, that covers your unarmored defense, and all the other good stuff from dex..

so point buy!
15, 15, 12, 10, 10, 9

str 10, dex 15, con 15, int 10, wis 9, cha 10. after race,
str 10, dex 16, con 16, int 10, wis 9, cha 10.

first level barb, so you should have..
HP 15
AC 16

with 2 shortswords, thats 1d6+3 MainH. 1d6 OffH +5 to hit with each.

Rage, 2 per day, +2 melee damage. DR, Slashing, Bludgeoning, Piercing.

2nd level rogue,

HP 23
AC 16

Rage, Unarmoured defense, Healer, expertise, Sneak attack (1d6), thieves cant.

+5 to hit, 1d6+3/1d6

3rd level barbarian,

HP 33
AC 16

Rage, Unarmoured defense, Wreckless attack, Danger sense, Healer, Expertise, Sneak attack, thieves cant.

4th level rogue,

same as above, but with cunning action.. you are now 4th, without your ASI, next level should be extra attack (for barb) but your still 2 levels away from an ASI, nevermind extra attack, that does put you behind in some aspects, but as you noted at character level 3, your basically guaranteed sneak attack, though all attacks on you have advantage as a consequence.. your not really getting an awful lot out of the build save for the advantage when you want it, which is nice dont get me wrong, but your going to be at that 16 AC for a good while, its a great point to start with. but your going to have to spend ASI in dex or con to get it up.

ill let you build the rest of it out as i dont know how far your campaign is planning to go (lvl 15?)

That does put me pretty behind. I was useing str because of the rage damage bonus. But if I took less babarbarian levels I could use dex.

So you don't think it works? Would you drop the barbarian all together or just change when you take It?

For example, barbarian 1, rogue 4, barb 1? Would you take more than that?






I'd just get one rapier. Your bonus action will see a lot of use between Rage, Cunning Action and healing. Dual-wielding here gives you very little.

Good point, more bonus actions for healing means more support

[Lord Il Palazzo]

That does put me pretty behind. I was useing str because of the rage damage bonus. But if I took less babarbarian levels I could use dex.

So you don't think it works? Would you drop the barbarian all together or just change when you take It?

For example, barbarian 1, rogue 4, barb 1? Would you take more than that?I'd agree on keeping it strength based. If you hang in on Barbarian enough to eventually get Extra Attack, you can replace one or both of your attacks with shove or grapple attempts and still actually get an attack in.

With a focus on strength over dexterity and no shield (so you have a free hand to use healer's kits keep grappling options open) I would favor wearing medium armor rather than relying on unarmored defense. If you go standard array or rough equivalent point buy, you would end up with Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int Wis Cha 12 10 8 in whatever order. That's only 14 AC with unarmored defense, but a chain shirt or scale mail would get you to 15 or 16 and shouldn't be hard to come by at low levels.

I have a plan for a character like this I'd like to play someday. The idea is to use the Grappler feat and Reckless Attack as counts or it would be difficult.) Personally, I like the idea of this type of character having the criminal background and being a former healer with a thieves guild; if someone gets injured on a job or in a dust-up with the city guards, it makes sense they'd have their own healers around to patch them up rather than sending them out to a temple or something to be healed while they would attract more attention.

[Arkhios]

hi!

assuming your going V Human?

so, why the high strength? if your going unarmoured and using short swords, no need for it? save for the grapples, but you got that covered with rage and expertise.

so, lets say highest stat should be dex, then con, that covers your unarmored defense, and all the other good stuff from dex..

so point buy!
15, 15, 12, 10, 10, 9

str 10, dex 15, con 15, int 10, wis 9, cha 10. after race,
str 10, dex 16, con 16, int 10, wis 9, cha 10.

first level barb, so you should have..
HP 15
AC 16

with 2 shortswords, thats 1d6+3 MainH. 1d6 OffH +5 to hit with each.

Rage, 2 per day, +2 melee damage. DR, Slashing, Bludgeoning, Piercing.

2nd level rogue,

HP 23
AC 16

Rage, Unarmoured defense, Healer, expertise, Sneak attack (1d6), thieves cant.

+5 to hit, 1d6+3/1d6

3rd level barbarian,

HP 33
AC 16

Rage, Unarmoured defense, Wreckless attack, Danger sense, Healer, Expertise, Sneak attack, thieves cant.

4th level rogue,

same as above, but with cunning action.. you are now 4th, without your ASI, next level should be extra attack (for barb) but your still 2 levels away from an ASI, nevermind extra attack, that does put you behind in some aspects, but as you noted at character level 3, your basically guaranteed sneak attack, though all attacks on you have advantage as a consequence.. your not really getting an awful lot out of the build save for the advantage when you want it, which is nice dont get me wrong, but your going to be at that 16 AC for a good while, its a great point to start with. but your going to have to spend ASI in dex or con to get it up.

ill let you build the rest of it out as i dont know how far your campaign is planning to go (lvl 15?)

There are couple problems with your build.
First, barbarian/rogue multiclass requires str 13 for barbarian and dex 13 for rogue.
Second, rage bonus damage and reckless attack apply to your melee weapon attacks only when you use Strength.
Third, weapon that has the finesse property works just fine with strength. Using Dexterity in melee with finesse weapon is only a possibility, not mandatory.

[MaxDPSsays]

Also, can't you only gain the healing effect from a healers kit once per short rest?

[SpamCreateWater]

I recently made a "combat medic" build. I started with the idea of a mundane / no magic healer. I ended with Fighter (Banneret) 4 / Rogue (Thief) 4. vHuman; and the feats Inspiring Leader, Medic, and Healer.

Fighter (Banneret) 3 gives you Rallying Cry - When using Second Wind also heal up to 3 allies within 60ft of you for hp equal to your fighter level.
Rogue (Thief) 3 gives you Fast Hands - Can use Cunning Action to, amongst other things, take the Use an Object action.

You are allowed to create customised backgrounds - I believe the ruling is in the Player's Handbook under the Background section. I created this one:
Field Medic
Background feature: As per Soldier (has rank from prior army service)
Any 2 skills: Medicine and Athletics
2 languages or tools: Herbalism Kit and Alchemical Supplies
Equipment package: As per Commoner package (Common clothes, iron pot, spade, flask of rotgut, herbalism kit (I think this labelled as a "professions kit"), 15gp, 4sp
Then take two personality traits, one ideal, one bond, one flaw.

I took the Protection Fighting Style at Fighter 2 and ended up, at level 8, with:
Second Wind to heal self for 1d10 + 4hp, and (due to Rallying Cry) 3 others for 4hp
Inspiring Leader to give 6ppl 10 temp hp
Medic to allow 6ppl (DC15 Med check each) to forgo a HD of healing to regain max HP off that HD die.
Healer to heal 1d6 + 4 + targets level with a Healer's Kit (bonus action due to Fast Hands)
Each round can use reaction to impose disadvantage on an attack targeting someone within 5ft. Must be wearing a shield.

Apart from the last point, these abilities are once per person per rest.

[JBPuffin]

I recently made a "combat medic" build. I started with the idea of a mundane / no magic healer. I ended with Fighter (Banneret) 4 / Rogue (Thief) 4. vHuman; and the feats Inspiring Leader, Medic, and Healer.

Fighter (Banneret) 3 gives you Rallying Cry - When using Second Wind also heal up to 3 allies within 60ft of you for hp equal to your fighter level.
Rogue (Thief) 3 gives you Fast Hands - Can use Cunning Action to, amongst other things, take the Use an Object action.

You are allowed to create customised backgrounds - I believe the ruling is in the Player's Handbook under the Background section. I created this one:
Field Medic
Background feature: As per Soldier (has rank from prior army service)
Any 2 skills: Medicine and Athletics
2 languages or tools: Herbalism Kit and Alchemical Supplies
Equipment package: As per Commoner package (Common clothes, iron pot, spade, flask of rotgut, herbalism kit (I think this labelled as a "professions kit"), 15gp, 4sp
Then take two personality traits, one ideal, one bond, one flaw.

I took the Protection Fighting Style at Fighter 2 and ended up, at level 8, with:
Second Wind to heal self for 1d10 + 4hp, and (due to Rallying Cry) 3 others for 4hp
Inspiring Leader to give 6ppl 10 temp hp
Medic to allow 6ppl (DC15 Med check each) to forgo a HD of healing to regain max HP off that HD die.
Healer to heal 1d6 + 4 + targets level with a Healer's Kit (bonus action due to Fast Hands)
Each round can use reaction to impose disadvantage on an attack targeting someone within 5ft. Must be wearing a shield.

Apart from the last point, these abilities are once per person per rest.

That's pretty sweet. What would you do with the next 12 levels, if it matters? Would you go for Fighter 12+ for three attacks (and the Banneret features), or prioritize Rogue instead for more SA damage and other featurey goodness?

[Talionis]

I'd suggest open hand Monk3-5/Rogue X. You can go without much in strength because of Expertise and witH the Open Hand Monk 3 you can turn your unarmed attacks into grapples and shoves.

[SpamCreateWater]

That's pretty sweet. What would you do with the next 12 levels, if it matters? Would you go for Fighter 12+ for three attacks (and the Banneret features), or prioritize Rogue instead for more SA damage and other featurey goodness?

Thanks, I'm looking forward to playing it ^.^

I have a few ideas for the next couple of levels - but it will mostly boil down to how the campaign turns out and who/what the rest of the party are.
Fighter +4 - Bigger Second Wind heals, more feats (Alchemist feat to make a potion more potent)
Rogue +2 - Uncanny Dodge and more Expertise (Put Expertise in Athletics and Use Object as a bonus action to alter terrain and the battlefield - throwing tables in the way, smashing glass in the ground, etc)
Bard 2 - break the no magic rule and, more importantly, grab Song of Rest.

[Quoxis]

I had a similar build in mind with monk instead of barbarian and going thief rogue 3 (for fast hands) and monk 17 (not sure about the subclass - long death for the self-stitching feel when you go down to 1 instead of 0hp or open hand for the anatomical knowledge where exactly to slash/press/pull to do maximized damage).
Obvious monk goodies, combined with cunning action (more ki points for flurries and other good stuff) and unarmored defense coming from your attack stat, pseudo-casting AND medicine skill stat (because playing a surgeon with low wis is like playing a Lumberjack with low strength or a wizard with low int- wait, i take that one back, that last one works).

[PeteNutButter]

Cool idea.

Stick with the strength build. Forget about unarmed defense. Just wear armor until late game. If you are desperate for stealth you can wear a breastplate over half plate at the cost of 1 AC. Don't take MAM though since you're better boosting con. As soon as you get 18 con, you can toss the armor.

You want just a 14 dex for medium armor so just leave it at that until your str and con are maxed. From there feats are probably better than boosting dex.

You're probably better off rapier and shield as the bonus action is very tight. TWF is going to be rare when you have rage, healers kit, disengage, dash, and hide as bonus action options.

I'd take 5 levels of barbarian, although not all at once. Taking that totem is a big boost, plus it gives you an extra rage per day (50% MOAR ANGRIER!). Fourth is an ASI, so money, and then that puts you one level from extra attack which is more than 2 sneak attack dice would give, especially since it makes you more likely to land a sneak attack each turn.

Uncanny dodge + rage is quarter damage. It's actually even better since it's half of x rounded down, halved again rounded down. Defense won't be a problem.