Mystic Arcanum, Borked

[Vaz]

Recently, I've been perusing Mystic Arcanum to come up with some homebrew stuff for my games, and I've come to the conclusion that whoever was writing it was high. I'll preface it by saying that it's unlikely a DM will ever rule in the RAW way, but just in case, it's worth being aware of.


At 11th level, your patron bestows upon you a magical secret called an arcanum. Choose one 6th level spell from the warlock spell list as this arcanum.
You can cast your arcanum spell once without expending a spell slot. You must finish a long rest before you can do so again.
At higher levels, you gain more warlock spells of your choice that can be cast in this way: one 7th level spell at 13th... You regain all uses of your Mystic Arcanum when you finish a long rest.

So, Level 11, you gain an Arcanum, and can use it once per long rest. And at later levels, you gain additional spells, which can be cast in this way. However, it says before that your arcanum spell can only be cast once. It then further confuses things by saying you regain all uses at later levels, but you only ever have one use of it. You don't get additional Arcanum's. You only ever get the ability to cast a higher level spell in that way.

I think the intention was there to let Mystic Arcanum cast each spell known at Mystic Arcanum, especially with the wording of getting back all uses. But the way they've worded it, you can't.

Now, fold into the fact that it doesn't scale, nor can you exchange your Mystic Arcanum later in the game. A Sorcerer can change their spells known. A Warlock can change their Pact Magic spells known. But a Warlock cannot change their Mystic Arcanum spells known for no reason.

Also, you cannot escalate the power of your spell, nor can you take a spell of lower level, and increase it to higher levels.


Choose one 6th level spell
Sweet. 6th level only spells, and later 7th, 8th, 9th. The thing is, your spells never actually increase in level when cast out of a Higher Level spell slot RAW, they only have an increased effect when cast out of a higher level spell slot.


If a lower leve; spell that you cast, like burning bands, has an enhanced effect when cast using a higher level slot, you can use the enhanced effect, even though you don't have any spells of that higher level.

And it isn't until when the spell is cast using that Higher level spell slot, that it doesn't actually increase in level.


if Umara casts magic missile using one of her 2nd-level slots, that magic missile is 2nd level. Effectively, the spell expands to fill the slot it is put into.


BANISHMENT
4th-level abjuration
...
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can target one additional creature for each slot level above 4th.

Banishment is a 4th level spell, it's only when you CAST THIS SPELL USING A SPELL SLOT OF a higher level. Not prepared. Not known. Cast.

Let's take a 6th level spell as an example, Create Undead. The one that sparked it all for me.


CREATE UNDEAD
6th-level necromancy
...
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a 7th-level spell slot, you can animate or reassert control over four ghouls. When you cast this spell using an 8th-level spell slot, you can animate or reassert control over five ghouls or two ghasts or wights. When you cast this spell using a 9th-level spell slot, you can animate or reassert control over six ghouls, three ghasts or wights, or two mummies.

Read Mystic Arcanum again. What slot do you have? It doesn't reference one. So, at Warlock 13, when you get your 7th level MA, not only can you not use Create Undead which you took at Warlock 11 at 7th level, but you can't take Create Undead at 7th level as your MA.

What the actual ****?

[Waterdeep Merch]

I'm not seeing the issue here. It's certainly limited, but that seems to be intentional.

You get a level 6 spell. It's always a level 6 spell, no matter what. You can't up-cast it. It doesn't use a 'slot', and it can't be replaced with a different spell at it's level because of this. The same goes for all the other ones you learn.

So you can't use any Mystic Arcanum to cast, say, banishment. Ever. And you can't use any of the scaling effects of the spells, because they simply do not inhabit spell slots and can't be traded around into spell slots.

[Millstone85]

So, Level 11, you gain an Arcanum, and can use it once per long rest. And at later levels, you gain additional spells, which can be cast in this way. However, it says before that your arcanum spell can only be cast once. It then further confuses things by saying you regain all uses at later levels, but you only ever have one use of it. You don't get additional Arcanum's. You only ever get the ability to cast a higher level spell in that way.

I think the intention was there to let Mystic Arcanum cast each spell known at Mystic Arcanum, especially with the wording of getting back all uses. But the way they've worded it, you can't.There is the Mystic Arcanum feature and there is the arcanum spells that are part of it. Each arcanum spell can be cast once between long rests. I do not find the RAW to be faulty.

[rbstr]

I guess you can read it it all obtuse if you want to make it not work.
At level 11 Pick a 6th level spell from the Warlock list. You can cast it once per long rest.
At level 13 pick a 7th level spell from the list. You can cast this one once per long rest too.
ect.
EDIT: this next paragraph is is a mistake:
Sure, banishment is a level 4 spell for some. But the Warlock list and feature says its level 6 and so level 6 it is for Mystic Arcanum. -end mistake.

Reading it otherwise is willfully ignoring context and the meaning of words. Like that idiotic debate that "once" can mean more than "once" if you pretend they actually mean "once per whatever" in the ceremony spell.

My one thought about Mystic Arcanum is that there should probably be an expanded list per patron.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I guess you can read it it all obtuse if you want to make it not work.
At level 11 Pick a 6th level spell from the Warlock list. You can cast it once per long rest.
At level 13 pick a 7th level spell from the list. You can cast this one once per long rest too.
ect.
Sure, banishment is a level 4 spell for some. But the Warlock list puts it as level 6 and so level 6 it is for Mystic Arcanum.

Reading it otherwise is willfully ignoring context and the meaning of words. Like that idiotic debate that "once" can mean more than "once" if you pretend they said "once per day" in the ceremony spell.

My one thought about Mystic Arcanum is that there should probably be an expanded list per patron.
Ah, okay, now I'm starting to see the issue. I wasn't aware warlocks had spells listed at unusual levels compared to other spellcasting classes. Weird. Shows how little I play the class.

RAW, I suppose they'd be cast as they are, without scaling. RAI, I feel like they might have been intended to scale to the Mystic Arcanum level you learn it at. I'll probably rule the latter in my home games.

[Lombra]

Banishment is level 4 for all classes, what are you talking about? Also mystic arcanum is not faulty, it gives you daily spells like the spells from the racial traits, that's it. You can't select banishment or hex as your mystic arcanum because they are not 6th level warlock spells. Create undead is level 6, so what's the problem with it? You can't use it's scaling feature, and it's not some design fallacy, it's how it is supposed to work.

[rbstr]

Indeed it is, I goofed and thought he was using it as an example of the arcanum.

At any rate what Lombra said is the real point of the post: At the particular warlock level you get one of the spells on the list of the designated level to cast once per day. It's pretty clear.

[Puh Laden]

I don't understand what the issue is. RAW or not it seems clear that it is meant that each arcanum can be cast once per long rest. And, just as when a spell is cast as a ritual, the spell is cast at the spell's default level. Is the issue that you would prefer the level to increase?

[Vaz]

You get a level 6 spell. It's always a level 6 spell, no matter what. You can't up-cast it. It doesn't use a 'slot', and it can't be replaced with a different spell at it's level because of this. The same goes for all the other ones you learn.
You learn other spells, which you cast in the same way.

You warlock gives you "an" arcanum. This arcanum is a 6th level spell. You cast your arcanum spell (note singular again). You wait a long rest. At level 13, 15, 17, you get 7th, 8th, 9th level spells. But you don't get additional uses of your arcanum. You have one arcanum, which you can cast as a 6th level spell, 7th, 8th or 9th. This is RAW. There are no multiple "arcanums", to regain.


So you can't use any Mystic Arcanum to cast, say, banishment. Ever. And you can't use any of the scaling effects of the spells, because they simply do not inhabit spell slots and can't be traded around into spell slots.

I used Banishment as an example spell of a spell which improves at Higher Levels - it was the first one which popped up on my OCR'd copy. And yes. This is broken. There's literally no point in ever taking something that scales, because it drops in effectiveness later. The thing is, you can't even change it up later either if you don't like it. You literally have to know what spell you want for 9 levels in advance. Unlike every other spellcaster in the game who can change spells when they level up. Like a warlock can do with Pact Magic.

[Millstone85]

You warlock gives you "an" arcanum. This arcanum is a 6th level spell. You cast your arcanum spell (note singular again). You wait a long rest.It is singular again because, at this point of the description, you are still an 11th-level warlock with the one arcanum spell.


At level 13, 15, 17, you get 7th, 8th, 9th level spells. But you don't get additional uses of your arcanum. You have one arcanum, which you can cast as a 6th level spell, 7th, 8th or 9th. This is RAW. There are no multiple "arcanums", to regain.Yes there are. Your get additional arcanum spells, or arcanums (arcana?).

And you still have one feature called Mystic Arcanum, which has multiple uses in the form of these arcanum spells.

[Waterdeep Merch]

You learn other spells, which you cast in the same way.

You warlock gives you "an" arcanum. This arcanum is a 6th level spell. You cast your arcanum spell (note singular again). You wait a long rest. At level 13, 15, 17, you get 7th, 8th, 9th level spells. But you don't get additional uses of your arcanum. You have one arcanum, which you can cast as a 6th level spell, 7th, 8th or 9th. This is RAW. There are no multiple "arcanums", to regain.

Now that I'm back to the book, I'm really not seeing that. The wording's pretty clear that you have multiple uses, one per spell learned through Mystic Arcanum.

In full-


At 11th level, your patron bestows upon you a magical secret called an arcanum. Choose one 6th-level spell from the warlock spell list as this arcanum.
You can cast your arcanum spell once without expending a spell slot. You must finish a long rest before you can do so again.
At higher levels, you gain more warlock spells of your choice that can be cast in this way; one 7th-level spell at 13th level, one 8th-level spell at 15th level, and one 9th-level spell at 17th level. You regain all uses of your Mystic Arcanum when you finish a long rest.
I put the pertinent portion in italics and the part that proves you can cast each one once per casting in bold. The passage presupposes plurality, impossible if the use was singular. You could read the rest of that passage as if it was referencing one usage only (though it's equally possible to read it as if each use was its own thing), but not that part.

[Millstone85]

You could read the rest of that passage as if it was referencing one usage only (though it's equally possible to read it as if each use was its own thing), but not that part.Yes indeed, I can see the ambiguity until that last sentence, but not how you could conclude that the last sentence makes no sense because the rest clearly established a single use per long rest for the whole feature.

[Drackolus]

You are completely right that it is lousy. You can improve it if you'd like, which many people do.
Warlocks are sort of meant to be somewhere between a full and half caster, I think.

[Waterdeep Merch]

You are completely right that it is lousy. You can improve it if you'd like, which many people do.
Warlocks are sort of meant to be somewhere between a full and half caster, I think.
It might be a bit more fun if you got two possible spells you could use each level of mystic arcanum on instead of one. You'd open up options without screwing with design balance, which I'm a big fan of.

[Vaz]

It is singular again because, at this point of the description, you are still an 11th-level warlock with the one arcanum spell.

Yes there are. Your get additional arcanum spells, or arcanums (arcana?).

And you still have one feature called Mystic Arcanum, which has multiple uses in the form of these arcanum spells.

No, you don't. I get RAI, that's what you get, and what it SHOULD be, but RAW, You get a single ability called Mystic Arcanum, which grants you the ability cast your arcanum spell once without a spell slot. At higher levels, you can cast your arcanum spell; (note, in comparison to Warlock Spells, as mentioned in Pact Magic) still only once per short rest. You just get to use it with higher level spells, because WotC cannot write rules for ****, despite play testing them.

It doesn't matter how many uses you regain on a long rest, if you can only use it once on a long rest.

[Millstone85]

At higher levels, you can cast your arcanum spellAgain, that "spell", singular, was one sentence ago, when you indeed had just the one. Once the text gets to "At higher levels", it is all about "spells", plural. You gain more spells to cast "in this way", in the way defined for your first arcanum spell (once per long rest, no spell slot), so you now have multiple arcanum spells, not a single arcanum spell that is now in quantic uncertainty between four states.

[Malifice]

As you advance, you get one spell of levels 6 (11th), 7 (13th), 8 (15th) and then 9 (17th) that you can cast once per long rest (each).

Im not seeing the issue here.

IMG I also allow Warlocks to use these arcanum 'slots' to also cast 'lock spells known with them. So a 'lock 17 can use his 9th level arcanum to cast the arcanum known OR to cast an 'up-gunned' 9th level Hellish rebuke (for example).

It gives 'locks a bit more flexibility.

[ghost_warlock]

Was the spells known issue ever resolved?

Specifically, a warlock's Spells Known is a function of their Pact Magic feature. This is a separate feature from Mystic Arcanum.

So, it could be interpreted that when a warlock reaches 11th level, they would learn a new spell of 1st-5th level from Pact Magic (as per the warlock advancement chart) and also learn a 6th level spell to cast with Mystic Arcanum.

[Jerrykhor]

No, you don't. I get RAI, that's what you get, and what it SHOULD be, but RAW, You get a single ability called Mystic Arcanum, which grants you the ability cast your arcanum spell once without a spell slot. At higher levels, you can cast your arcanum spell; (note, in comparison to Warlock Spells, as mentioned in Pact Magic) still only once per short rest. You just get to use it with higher level spells, because WotC cannot write rules for ****, despite play testing them.

It doesn't matter how many uses you regain on a long rest, if you can only use it once on a long rest.

No, Mystic Arcanum is the name of the feature, not a single spell. It started off by referencing the 6th level spell you gain at 11th level, and you gain it back on a long rest. So yes, 'spell', singular term.

Then it says you get 7th, 8th and 9th level spells at higher levels, and you regain all uses of Mystic Arcanum on long rest. Seems pretty clear to me, if you have 6th to 9th level spell, you can use each of them once (4 uses in total) and regain all on long rest. They wouldn't have use the phrase 'all uses' if it was meant for a singular use out of the 4 spells.

WotC is not perfect, but I thinking blaming them is unfair here, it is you who cannot read for ****.

Mystic Arcanum is meant to be a rigid way for warlocks to cast higher level spells, because by 9th level, they always have 1 more 5th level slot than full casters that refreshes on short rest, while every other full caster refreshes their 5th level slot on long rest. So comparing a 11th level Warlock to a 11th level Wizard, the Wizard would have a 6th level slot and two 5th level slots, all recharging on long rest; whilst a Warlock have a 6th level slot (long rest) and THREE 5th level slots that recharge on SHORT REST.

[Lombra]

It's written in correct english, and it's clear both in the intention and in the writing. If you get multiple spells that you can cast in the same way it means that you can cast each of them as a separate arcanum. It would have otherwise been written as something like "at 13th 15th 17th level you can choose 7th 8th 9th level spells to cast with this feature" which has a completely different meaning.

It probably is written in a harder way than the other rules in the book, but with enough understanding of the language it makes perfect sense.

I don't get your problem with scaling spells. It's clearly intentional, it's not a mistake, it's how it is designed.