What value do you place on gold?

[MustacheManny]

I'm co DMing a campaign and the subject of how much is gold really worth came up. The party came to an inn and I charged them half a gold a night. They kind of balked at the price and were able to convince the inn keeper to accept half a gold for two nights if they work as bouncers and cleaners. What value do you place on gold? How much gold equals about a days wage?

[Sigreid]

According to the PHB a stay in a comfortable in for 1 night would be 2sp. They have all this stuff in the PHB in the equipment section.

These prices are average for D&D though. No reason a particular in couldn't be more or less.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Imagine if the world's economy has basically collapsed under the weight of adventuring parties bringing in titanic amounts of gold and treasure, rendering prices so insanely high you'd need a wagonfull of gold to afford your average loaf of bread.

In response, trade starts revolving purely around goods and magical items and gold pieces become paving stones for roads for all the good they're worth. Communication between kingdoms breaks down due to the removal of a common ground for mercantile trade, leading to an influx in warfare, bringing with it death, disease, and starvation on a massive scale. Religious orders get founded on fanatical self-reliance and nationalism. Wars become more and more heated, with every battle an attempt to secure more fertile grounds to feed its malnourished populace.

As the apocalypse grows, demons and devils begin ruling the planet, leading to intolerant warfare between them and the new insane religions dominating world politics. More good leaning gods are finding the minds and hearts of mortalkind shut, uninterested in the useless deities that could do nothing for them. And as the world burns, Asmodeus lets out a final laugh, and a secret tear falls and sizzles at his feet- he was right about them. He tried to tell them. He was right.

[LtPowers]

According to the PHB a stay in a comfortable in for 1 night would be 2sp. They have all this stuff in the PHB in the equipment section.

Not sure where you're getting 2sp. My book says 8 sp for a comfortable inn room. Room and board, etc. (lifestyle expenses) are 2 gp per day for comfortable.

5 sp a night, which is what Manny wanted to charge his players, is a modest inn room. Giving them a discount for working is reasonable.


Powers &8^]

[mephnick]

Anything under 1g is worth 1g because I ain't tracking that ****.

Once you're making as much gold in a day that the average commoner would in a lifetime it sort of loses meaning anyway.

[BillyBobShorton]

If they balked at me were I to give a 1/2 gp room fee, I would have role played that **** and done 1 of 2 things: raised to 20 gp. Orrr..... turned it into a sacking. Lower the rate as they demanded, have them wake up with most of their gear gone. Different manager at the desk, who insists he and his crew have always been there, he remembers them from yesterday. So.e elaborate super-con.

1 gp was an issue... are you kidding me? Really?What were they gonna do? Stock up on caltrops, and vinegar skins before they left town? So they needed that 50 cents or whatever currency math system 5e writers made up-likely under the influence-one chilly, wild night after the company christmas party.

Your table/players demonstrated behavior not unlike customers in a chain grocery store, or nice steakhouse, knowing they can complain even if nothing was a lost cause, and get things for less/free because of the "over-cater to the whiney" day and age we live in.

[Tetrasodium]

If they balked at me were I to give a 1/2 gp room fee, I would have role played that **** and done 1 of 2 things: raised to 20 gp. Orrr..... turned it into a sacking. Lower the rate as they demanded, have them wake up with most of their gear gone. Different manager at the desk, who insists he and his crew have always been there, he remembers them from yesterday. So.e elaborate super-con.

1 gp was an issue... are you kidding me? Really?What were they gonna do? Stock up on caltrops, and vinegar skins before they left town? So they needed that 50 cents or whatever currency math system 5e writers made up-likely under the influence-one chilly, wild night after the company christmas party.

Your table/players demonstrated behavior not unlike customers in a chain grocery store, or nice steakhouse, knowing they can complain even if nothing was a lost cause, and get things for less/free because of the "over-cater to the whiney" day and age we live in.

Pretty much this yea. Unless this group was level 1 or close to it, they are kind of in the territory of "WTF?". To put things in perspective, my kobold druid spent thirty gp on a hat hoping it would make him look less scary after he sent a villager screaming by entering a church to light a candle or something. Not a magic hat, a skullcap with a mohawk of feathers he was assured would make him look dignified to humans the kobold didn't even try bargaining & neither did the barbarian who spent a similarly absurd amount for a fur outfit (not hide armor, an ermine fur outfit) or the wizard who wanted a reversible cloak that was black on one side & white on the other because it's pretty pointless.

[Phelan Boots]

Pretty much this yea. Unless this group was level 1 or close to it, they are kind of in the territory of "WTF?". To put things in perspective, my kobold druid spent thirty gp on a hat hoping it would make him look less scary after he sent a villager screaming by entering a church to light a candle or something. Not a magic hat, a skullcap with a mohawk of feathers he was assured would make him look dignified to humans the kobold didn't even try bargaining & neither did the barbarian who spent a similarly absurd amount for a fur outfit (not hide armor, an ermine fur outfit) or the wizard who wanted a reversible cloak that was black on one side & white on the other because it's pretty pointless.

This kind of nonsense makes me laugh uncontrollably. Thank you.

[Tetrasodium]

This kind of nonsense makes me laugh uncontrollably. Thank you.


Oh we all did that after the drow rogue rolled a 1 trying to pickpocket a drunk in the bar, but before going to the bar in question for some food & drink. In the bar, the drow asked first what was on the menu ->"we don't serve your kind, although maybe we might as food, we do have elf sometimes" -> Kobold: "I'll have the elf you mentioned being on the menu" -> insert long fun session of everyone laughing at the kobold trying to convince the drow to eat the elf pie he ordered before trying to convince the little old lady cook to bring a troll in on staff for troll sausage while everyone else gpt **** faced drunk & ended with the kobold trading an 8hr plant growth casting on the lady's herb garden (and everything within a mile) in exchange for some rooms to sleep it off.... the session where all that happened was about 3 hours long. total xp:0, total combat:0, Total gold: -lots. everyone had a lot of fun & there were a few times everyone needed to put down their drinks because we were laughing too hard. Grated it wasn''t the norm but it was fun

[Darth Ultron]

The books are all over the place with costs and values. It often seems like one gold coin equals rich person, but at the same time things cost like ten or twenty gold. And it just breaks down to silly when the poor farmer can sell the items off a dead fighter and make more then a years pay.

I generally go with one gold coin is about $5 in the modern USA. This makes for a nice flow of cash and coins.

Too often the PC's have like thousands of gold and if the economy is like ''1 gold coin equals 1,000 dollars'' then it's just silly to have any type of urban adventure. The PC can just ''buy the town'' for like 10 gold coins.

And PC's don't often buy much, and if you go by the book for prices, anything they want is cheap anyway.

[ProsecutorGodot]

In the campaign I'm running I've already handed out a ridiculous amount of gold. Inn's can charge upwards of 5 gold and that's a low end price.

I'll probably not hand out so much free gold in the future but this campaign is meant to be a bit of a funhouse style so I'm trying to give out all the resources I can without explicitly saying "pick magic item X that you want and you find it"

[bulbaquil]

1. Because access to magic items is not the default in 5e, you don't need to hand out as much gp as you do in 3.5/PF.

2. Raising prices for inns and taverns heavily frequented by adventurers (or even hiking just for adventurers) is not only reasonable from the DM's perspective, it actually makes good economic sense from the innkeeper/bartender's perspective - especially in small villages, where the only alternative is a local farmer's pigsty. Just be sure to clear it with them upfront that wages and prices listed in the PHB are only suggestions, and that they can vary considerably from place to place (as for the real medieval economy).

3. Reinforce the "there is no adequate alternative", especially if you are in a village or small town and none of your party are, for instance, nobles with political power. The town's blacksmith might be surly, rude, and with horrible "people skills"... but people still go to him to get their metalwork done, because he's the only blacksmith in town. The alternative is a four-day's trip to the "nearby" city, which charges a 2-sp entry toll, then a four-day's trip back. The blacksmith treats the local baron and his men with deference, because if he doesn't they'll put him in the stocks and throw tomatoes at him, but ordinary peasants (and wandering adventurers) aren't the baron and don't have this recourse.

4. If the party tries to complain and holler "the customer is always right!" etc., have them roll an Intimidate check, because that is essentially what they are doing.

[Unoriginal]

How much gold equals about a days wage?

The PHB answers this question. About 2 gp per day for hirelings who need skills and about 2 sp for something anyone could do.



The books are all over the place with costs and values. It often seems like one gold coin equals rich person, but at the same time things cost like ten or twenty gold.

Errr, no, one gold coin is never presented as "rich person". It's generally half of what a trained person earn per day (like the town guard who has some combat skills) and it's what it cost per day to live modestly. You need 2 gp per day to live comfortably.



And it just breaks down to silly when the poor farmer can sell the items off a dead fighter and make more then a years pay.

Not sure what's silly about that. Adventurer's equipment is expensive and it helps make them powerful, while laborers are payed little.



I generally go with one gold coin is about $5 in the modern USA. This makes for a nice flow of cash and coins.

Too often the PC's have like thousands of gold and if the economy is like ''1 gold coin equals 1,000 dollars'' then it's just silly to have any type of urban adventure. The PC can just ''buy the town'' for like 10 gold coins.

And PC's don't often buy much, and if you go by the book for prices, anything they want is cheap anyway.

A gold coin is generally more worth between 50$ and 100$

[qube]

I'm co DMing a campaign and the subject of how much is gold really worth came up. The party came to an inn and I charged them half a gold a night. They kind of balked at the price and were able to convince the inn keeper to accept half a gold for two nights if they work as bouncers and cleaners. What value do you place on gold? How much gold equals about a days wage?PHB page ... err... I don't know. Somewhere in equipement, you can find the price for hirelings (per day). 2sp for an unskilled one, 2gp for a skilled one.

But for the party members, I'd say, that if they work full shifts (if they don't, I don't see why they would be hired), you can look at how much downtime costs. (it's also somewhere in the book).

[Breashios]

I wish I had my books with me. It all seems to work out when I stick to the books. What doesn't work so well is tracking it. When I am a player I usually end up keeping the books and am able to keep the party supplied, but hungry for more income. When I am the DM it is just too much work to constantly be keeping the treasure in line - what with players writing the same number down twice, not subtracting the cost for the item they purchased from their total, or selling things for the book cost without consulting me to determine what someone would actually pay them, etc.

So what I do when I am running the game is go into all the boring detail for a couple of levels, just to give the characters the feeling for the medieval economy. Then I work in a bundle of monetary treasure, so tracking for anything mundane becomes pointless. When they want magic items, real estate, pay for services, etc., then I charge them and keep track in rough hundreds of gold pieces. As for gems, at that point, I'll just tell them the total value of assorted gems in their possession and assume they convert as the opportunity arises, so they don't end up carting around too many kilos of coin which could end up being unrealistic.

So, basic answer: just stick to what is in the book, unless you want to incorporate inflation due to plot or character actions. Then if the group becomes wealthy, just handle the big stuff, maybe charge a fixed daily charge based on their lifestyle, half or whatever for the rest.

[Slipperychicken]

Why not just make the PCs pick one of the lifestyle options and just abstract all the expenses to that?

Unless you're really intent on making level 1 players miserable, I don't see the point in charging them separately for every inn night and sandwich they get.

[Sigreid]

Not sure where you're getting 2sp. My book says 8 sp for a comfortable inn room. Room and board, etc. (lifestyle expenses) are 2 gp per day for comfortable.

5 sp a night, which is what Manny wanted to charge his players, is a modest inn room. Giving them a discount for working is reasonable.


Powers &8^]

Quite possible that I misaligned the rows when I looked across. /shrug.

[Laurefindel]

I place 1 gp at about $100 in our world.

So yeah, adventurers walking around with thousands of gold pieces are like gangsters carrying suitcases full of cash.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I place 1 gp at about $100 in our world.

So yeah, adventurers walking around with thousands of gold pieces are like gangsters carrying suitcases full of cash.
Briefcase of Holding
Uncommon
This spacious leather suitcase has an extraplanar banking space that can store over 1,000,000 nonmagical coins of standard size. Coins in the suitcase automatically transmute into a higher denomination when enough of them are placed inside, equal to the coin type it becomes, up to platinum coins. The briefcase will automatically display up to 2,000 coins of the highest denomination inside of it if opened.
If you show the contents of the briefcase to any creature, you gain advantage on any attempts at bribery.

[Sigreid]

Briefcase of Holding
Uncommon
This spacious leather suitcase has an extraplanar banking space that can store over 1,000,000 nonmagical coins of standard size. Coins in the suitcase automatically transmute into a higher denomination when enough of them are placed inside, equal to the coin type it becomes, up to platinum coins. The briefcase will automatically display up to 2,000 coins of the highest denomination inside of it if opened.
If you show the contents of the briefcase to any creature, you gain advantage on any attempts at bribery.

There should be a cursed version that on the night of the full moon turns all of the coins permanently into copper pieces. :smallbiggrin:

[Darth Ultron]

Errr, no, one gold coin is never presented as "rich person". It's generally half of what a trained person earn per day (like the town guard who has some combat skills) and it's what it cost per day to live modestly. You need 2 gp per day to live comfortably.

I'm not just talking about the core rule books, but every book. Even more so when you start getting into stuff written by ''random guy''. Then you will find things like the town of SeaPort where a ''living comfortably'' is like 3 silver, and the guy with a gold coin is a god.





Not sure what's silly about that. Adventurer's equipment is expensive and it helps make them powerful, while laborers are payed little.

Equipment like a backpack?




A gold coin is generally more worth between 50$ and 100$

That has to be way too much. So if something costs a gold coin it's equal to $100? Just look through the equipment and ask yourself if you see anything worth $100? Like would you pay $100 for 50' of rope or even $50? Pay $100 for a meal or a drink? Even the living expenses would be like $200 a day (or ok, $100)...do you in 2017 spend that much a day to ''live''? That would be what $6,000 a month. And sure that might describe some ''cool'' artist person that lives on the upper west side of New York and pays $1200 in rent and drinks $100 bottles of wine while they protest and ''make art''. A lot more common people live off less then $1000 a month...

[Coidzor]

It's how you keep score after you get your essential gear.

Ergo, the value of gold is how much something deducts from my current accumulated score.

If my score is a measly 20 gold, then, yes, 5 silver per night just to see to my character's basic needs is an untenable situation that I will want to get out of ASAP.

If my score is 1000 gold and I'm trying to save up enough to afford upgrading my armor to full plate, then I'm going to be in extra penny-pinching and loot finding mode.

If my score is 2000 gold, I'm fully equipped, and the party pot is currently 10K gp because we simply haven't divvied up our wealth due to not having hit a large city, then splurging to make interesting things happen is perfectly within reason.

[Unoriginal]

I'm not just talking about the core rule books, but every book.

What do you mean, "every book"? Every published adventures?


Even more so when you start getting into stuff written by ''random guy''. Then you will find things like the town of SeaPort where a ''living comfortably'' is like 3 silver, and the guy with a gold coin is a god.

You can't say 5e's gp makes no sense because of some stuff "random guy" wrote and screwed up.




Equipment like a backpack

It's worth a bit more than two weeks of an unskilled laborer's pay. It's not crazy when you consider an adventurer's backpack has to be tough and of good quality enough to survive dungeons filled with traps and battles against weapons and spells, yet still never disadvantage the wearer.


That has to be way too much. So if something costs a gold coin it's equal to $100? Just look through the equipment and ask yourself if you see anything worth $100? Like would you pay $100 for 50' of rope or even $50?

I've looked at how much cost 50m of climbing rope, and yes, it does cost around 50$-100$, sometime more.

Keep in mind D&D doesn't have machines to create ropes or other goods in an industrialized fashion, either, so that kind of crafted goods has plenty of reason to cost more than in our modern world.


Pay $100 for a meal or a drink?

I'm not an expert on the question, but this (https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowTopic-g28926-i29-k7708015-Average_daily_cost_in_California-California.html) says that per day and per person it's at minimum 20$ to eat in California (described as "rock bottom"), and for a comfortable budget it's around 50$.

Note that a "comfortable" meal in the PHB is descibed as worth 5 sp.





Even the living expenses would be like $200 a day (or ok, $100)...do you in 2017 spend that much a day to ''live''?

Actually, a modest lifestyle (1 gp per day for a month) is described as "a modest lifestyle keeps you out of the slums and ensures that you can maintain your equipment. You live in an older part of town, renting a room in a boarding house, inn, or temple. You don't go hungry or thirsty, and your living conditions are clean, if simple", meaning it includes buying new clothes, products to keep your house clean, food, etc, for around $1500 to $3000, which I think is reasonable


That would be what $6,000 a month. And sure that might describe some ''cool'' artist person that lives on the upper west side of New York and pays $1200 in rent and drinks $100 bottles of wine while they protest and ''make art''.

Dunno about the prices in the US, but in my country an apartment of 2 rooms, even if located in a place that's neither fancy nor well-located, for less than the equivalent of $1200 is considered very cheap.

Actually, according to this (https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=United+States), the average price for an apartment of 1 bedroom in the city center is on average $ 1,176.25, and $ 911.08 for outside of the city center.



A lot more common people live off less then $1000 a month...

So? Even not counting the difference in economy (especially the housing cost and the cost of goods pre-industrial revolution) a lot of common people lives off with less than 10 gp a month in 5e too.

[ThurlRavenscrof]

I gotta agree with unoriginal on this. I think laurelfinder put it best when they said adventurers roll up in town like gangsters with briefcases full of cash. Adventurers spend ungodly amounts of money on stuff every day and common folk probably think they're insane.

It might seem silly to spend $100 on rope or a backpack or whatever but I think that's because we infrequently buy handmade stuff and we aren't used to that level of product. I haven't researched it but I imagine buying 50' of handmade rope would cost a lot even irl because rope is very difficult to make without a machine.

More to the point, when I spend time with my rich friends, they easily spend 200 dollars a day if not more. (Hard to calculate how much they spend on their homes since I'm not a realtor)

[Laurefindel]

If I remember my rock climbing and hiking days, $100 for a pair of boots, a decent backpack, or a climbing rope, sounds about right. True, these are specialized items in our modern world, but so is the stuff that adventurers buy. This is not just a pair of sandals, a loose sack, and a ball of twine.

And if I think about my business travelling days, $200 for a day at the local "comfortable" hotel, meals, bus/taxi etc, also sounds about right. It's actually on the cheap side. Yes, living in my own house, preparing my own food and minding my own business will cost me less than $200 per day, but that's not an adventurer's life.

I think it is fair to say that economics of our modern world and that of a D&D fantasy world are bound to be pretty different, but I stand by my 1gp = $100 face value for a rough equivalent.