Fighter Archer/Warlock help

[FaceofBo]

Hello all, I'm here today to throw out an idea I've been having and would like any assistance you'd be willing to give.

The Archer kinda archetype of fighters is something that I rarely see, which I guess is because Ranger's are a thing, but I wanted to go for a bit more damage/attack heavy hitter. Instead of the tricks and such of a Ranger, I focused on the just pure attacks of the Fighter. However, I also wanted a few tricks, and after looking through the Eldritch Knight(which was almost perfect) I glanced through the Pact of the Chain Warlock. The tricks/spells offered by 3 levels in Warlock (Chill Touch, Eldritch Blast, Hex, Armor of Agathys, Expeditious Retreat) are quite useful, the usefulness of the Improved Familiar (Scouting, touch spells, their own specific attack) as well as the first level Patron Spells are really solid.

I can already hear people saying "If you want to play an Archer, just play a Ranger" and to that I say nah. I think Rangers are okay and I know they tend to be the better archers, but I just don't really want all the extra tricks, I'm keeping it closer to pure sniper with only 1 or 2 little tricks up my sleeve (I've been playing a lot of very option heavy characters, and I feel like it'd be good to go back to a very straightforward kind of character). The Fighter's 3 attacks give you solid presence on the field, especially when paired with something like Hex for a little bonus damage, and offer a strong ranged dps character.

The spells that you get with a dip into Warlock all offer great positioning and defensive tools with a little bit of offense to enhance your already pretty formidable attack. I looked through the 3 paths for fighter, Eldritch Knight, Champion, and Battle Master. Eldritch Knight would offer more spell casting definitely, but I figured that it'd start becoming a little too MAD, not sure though. Battle Master would also be interesting, I looked into the uses of Hex to maybe improve the maneuvers, but immediately realized that they are all saves, not checks, so, yeah. Champion is, well, Champion. Bonus to crits, a little bonus proficiency, its more damage I guess.

As for the Patrons. Fiends are okay, the bonus hit points on kill is always a big plus, a little extra shield in case people get up to you, Burning hands is okay, but you generally don't want to be that close, and command is kinda meh. The Great Old One patron are also pretty okay, Tasha's is good if you can combo it with your front line, dissonant whispers is a pretty okay defense tool (As long as they don't make the saves), and the telepathy is more useful as an OOC ability. Fey is really good, the frightful presence is kinda meh, but the fact that you, as a fighter, can cast Fairie Fire by yourself is amazing. This combo's amazingly with Champion, the advantage giving you much more chance to land those sweet sweet crits. Sleep is okay, another good spell to single out someone who's gotten too close, or give your front line a chance for big damage.

Now, for the Invocations, which are also super useful. I'm only going to mention the ones that I've found as useful, because otherwise it'll get even longer. Agonizing Blast, is pretty okay if you've got a decent Charisma, otherwise, its just kinda meh. Devil's Sight is wonderful, giving any race the improved Darkvision (this is stellar if you're going Variant Human, or the like that don't have innate Darkvision, it's still pretty good for the races that have darkvision RAW because it increases the range and see through magical Darkness). Repelling Blast is also an amazing invocation, becoming even more useful at 5th, 11th, and 17th. At 17th level, if you hit with all 4 blasts, you can push that creature back 40ft, amazing for getting away, getting big baddies away, or cliff shenanigans. Voice of the Change Master is another amazing one for using your familiar to scout, sharing senses allowing for some great information ahead of time, being able to find your way around a lot of surprises. Misty Visions is the last one that I'll mention, it just allows for some fun shenanigans with camo, dropping a fake monster onto the field to try to scare enemies, placing some fake wall in front of you to hide, it's only real limit is your creativity. It's not as directly useful as the others, but definitely lots of fun.

Finally, Races. The Races I narrowed it down to are Tabaxi, Air Genasi, and Variant Human. I know that High Elf or Wood Elf would also be good, as would Half Elf, but I'm normally a Dwarf player so I can't stand elves. Tabaxi is a good choice, their Feline Agility is very useful for an archer, who shouldn't have to move every turn, the extra boost to speed is great for positioning. Their bonuses +2 to Dex and +1 Cha give a nice bump to your attacks and damage, as well as a little bonus to your spell casting(for Warlock). Air Genasi are good, the +2 Con and +1 Dex are okay, not as optimal, but the extra HP is always good, the +1 Dex is okay, and the ability to cast Levitate and just turn into a mobile gun platform is great. Variant Human's +1 to 2 things, most likely Dex and Cha (unless you're doing Eldritch Knight, in which case you'd probably take the +1 to Int).

Anything I missed? How would you suggest making it better?

[Corran]

Have you heard of the famous fighter (EK) 7/ warlock 2/ rogue 11 build?
I have a feeling that you will love it.

[FaceofBo]

Have you heard of the famous fighter (EK) 7/ warlock 2/ rogue 11 build?
I have a feeling that you will love it.

I have not actually, what does it entail?

[Corran]

I have not actually, what does it entail?
Well, the jist of it is to use the EK's warmagic feature to the maximum, for very good damage per round.
You take 2 levels in warlock to get EB and the relevant invocations (agonizing blast, repelling blast), you take 7 levels in EK fighter to get warmagic, so that you can follow up a cantrip with a weapon (heavy crossbow) attack as a bonus action. The EB damage scales as you level, so after that point, all you have to do, is boost your heavy crossbow damage. You do that by taking your 11 remaining levels in rogue. The combination of EB +xbow attack comes online at character level 9 (ek7/wrl2). Start as fighter probably, and perhaps take the warlock levels @4 and 5 (so you can have your EB with invocations by the time cantrips power up, ie @lvl5). Then all the way to fighter 7 for warmagic, and after that, rogue all the way to 11. Or at least progress that way if dpr is your #1 concern.

Edit: CHA > DEX > else
Boost both charisma and dex to 20; chrisma first, as the bulk of the damage comes from EB (though you will probably use an xbow till you hit level 5, from level 5 up to level 8 you use EB, and from level 9 and onwards you use both; EB with action, heavy crossbow attack with bonus action).

[FaceofBo]

and after that, rogue all the way to 11. Or at least progress that way if dpr is your #1 concern.

Well, I can see how that would be absolutely ridiculous, sneak attack, plus EB, plus the crossbow, that has gotta add up pretty fast. However, I'm looking more for an optimization of this scout+ kinda guy, trying to utilize the familiar more. Would EK 7/ W 3/ R 10 work as well? Sure I'd be sacrificing what, 1 extra sneak attack die? But I'd be getting the improved familiar with it's own attack and an easy way to drop touch spells into baddies. DPR is a large factor, as this is an AL game so optimization is a biggie, but I'd say it comes a close second to the idea of the scout/sniper kind of character.

[MeeposFire]

Yea you could go with warlock 3 for an improved familiar though remember you could already easily have aregular familiar and they are pretty sweet too. YOu could also go with 8 levels of fighter instead if you rather have an extra ASI or feat (for say magic initiate and pick up find familiar that way).

My recommendation with this is to start fighter and stay that way until level 7. This way you never feel like you are missing anything. Then pick up your warlock levels where your EB and attack combo will work right away. After your warlock levels then I would take rogue. This progression will feel very natural and you will never suck. At low levels fighter is really great so you will feel like a good archer character and when you pick up warlock it just adds to your power with no dead time. THen the rogue levels keep you going.

Take crossbow expert early. This will allow you to effectively use all crossbows and let you attack in melee range with your crossbow AND with EB later on. Also at the early levels you can use hand crossbows instead of the heavy crossbow (when you get access to warmagic then you can switch to the heavy crossbow) so you can get that bonus action attack going.

[Biggstick]

Human or Tabaxi for race imo. Start Fighter. Any of the PHB archetypes will work out fine imo. If you Battlemaster, grab Precision Shot. If you go EK, grab Shield and Mage Armor. Or go Champion, as you'll be shooting with advantage later on. First step is to grab Sharpshooter (level 4 for Tabaxi, level 1 for Human). Next grab +2 Dex (level 6 Tabaxi, level 4 Human). If you're Human, go ahead and get to level 5 (or 6 and grab Crossbow Expert or +2 Dex). If you're Tabaxi, you'll be making your Pact. Either way, get to Fighter 6 (or 5 at least) before grabbing Warlock levels.

Go three Warlock levels. Make your pact with the Great Old One. Choose Hex, Darkness, and Invisibility as your spells (doesn't matter what your fourth is). Grab Minor Illusion as a cantrip. Grab Devils Sight and the Invocation to see where your Chain Pact Familiar is at all times. You only need 14 Charisma, as you're not using Warlock spell DC's for anything important. Your primary use of Warlock abilities is stealth, scouting, ooc utility from telepathy, and self generation of advantage through Darkness shenanigans.

After the three Warlock levels, go back to Fighter. Stay there till you're at least Fighter 11 // Warlock 3. At that point, figure out if you want to push for more ASI's or grab 2-3 Rogue levels. Personally, I'd finish out with Fighter to grab a bunch of ASI's for things like Lucky, Alert, and Resilient Wisdom.

[Citan]

Well, the jist of it is to use the EK's warmagic feature to the maximum, for very good damage per round.
You take 2 levels in warlock to get EB and the relevant invocations (agonizing blast, repelling blast), you take 7 levels in EK fighter to get warmagic, so that you can follow up a cantrip with a weapon (heavy crossbow) attack as a bonus action. The EB damage scales as you level, so after that point, all you have to do, is boost your heavy crossbow damage. You do that by taking your 11 remaining levels in rogue. The combination of EB +xbow attack comes online at character level 9 (ek7/wrl2). Start as fighter probably, and perhaps take the warlock levels @4 and 5 (so you can have your EB with invocations by the time cantrips power up, ie @lvl5). Then all the way to fighter 7 for warmagic, and after that, rogue all the way to 11. Or at least progress that way if dpr is your #1 concern.

Edit: CHA > DEX > else
Boost both charisma and dex to 20; chrisma first, as the bulk of the damage comes from EB (though you will probably use an xbow till you hit level 5, from level 5 up to level 8 you use EB, and from level 9 and onwards you use both; EB with action, heavy crossbow attack with bonus action).
That is not that good a build in my opinion.

First there is the fluff problem: a guy that blasts energy bolt and follows with a bolt screems indecision to me, or someone with twin personalities.

Second there is the MADness problem: you create MADness where none was required in the first place, just for the sake of having a somewhat better ranged sustained damage (I say somewhat because even full Agonizing Blast cannot get up to a full longbow Sharpshooter Attack from a full-fledged Fighter). Of course you get the Sneak Attack damage which even things quite a bit, but only towards the end. And it compels you to favor this as much as possible, instead of using all the things you could do as a bonus action.

If you really wanted to do that, it's better to keep CHA just decent and take some levels in Sorcerer instead to compliment Rogue: you get enough SP to use Quickened when really needed. Battlemaster 3 / Draconic Sorcerer 6 / Arcane Trickster 11 slightly loses out on damage but gets better spellcasting, extra precision when needed and Quicken metamagic. Or just go Fighter 2 / Draconic Sorcerer 5 / Arcane Trickster 11 to squeeze two levels of Warlock to get Devil's Sight and any other Invocation, along with Hex.

Or just keep low CHA and use Warmagic to make a longbow attack after casting True Strike. ;)

Or simply to Fighter Battlemaster 6 for Action Surge, Manoeuvers and Extra Attack, Warlock 3 for Devil Sight and Darkness, then go Arcane Trickster Rogue up all the way to 11, maxing DEX and grabbing Skulker and Mage Slayer feat.

To get back on OP's idea of Fighter / Warlock, I'd say...
Tome Warlock 5 / Eldricht Knight 15: grab Rituals Invocation: learn Alarm and Leomund's Tiny Hut to travel safe, learn and cast Phantom Steed on a regular basis to become an uncatchable archer.

Fiend Warlock (any) 5 / Eldricht Knight 15: grab Haste or Slow from EK, cast it every fight thanks to Warlock short rest: build the rest as usual (Sharpshooter / Crossbow Expert).

Or, really, any combination that includes Eldricht Knight 11 (Eldricht Strike, 3rd attack) and Warlock's short rest slots of a level which fits the spell you really want to use on a regular basis (Shield > Warlock 2, Darkness/Blindness/Mirror Image/Blur > Warlock 3, Haste/Slow/Fireball/Fear > Warlock 5 etc).
If you can spare a single level, Rogue (Expertise) or Draconic Sorcerer (armor, extra cantrips, extra spells) is great.
If you can spare 2 levels, Bard (healing spells, Jack of all Trades) or Rogue (Cunning Action) are good choices.
If you can spare 3 levels, Lore Bard (expertise, 2nd level spells) or Swashbuckler Rogue (+CHA to initiative, Sneak Attack +2d6) are the best options.

No Rogue is really needed though strictly speaking: as an Archer, your need for mobility is less strong than it would be for a melee character. Now, if you want to play sneaky it's a given (pair with Skulker). If you want to play mobile (with Crossbow Expert) it's great too.

Finally, if you want to be a great asset to your party, pick Mage Slayer. ;)

[Corran]

That is not that good a build in my opinion.
I dont like it too. Too one dimensional for my taste (the control from repelling blast, while very good, doesn't cut it for me). It's one of the best ranged dpr builds though, and consequently one of the best dpr builds. I got the impression the OP was interested in a dpr build, hence why the suggestion.


First there is the fluff problem: a guy that blasts energy bolt and follows with a bolt screems indecision to me, or someone with twin personalities.
Eh, not a fluff problem. That's a matter of preference. For example, I like the ''blast and shoot'' stuff at the same round. Kind like a 'slash and cast', only from range.


Second there is the MADness problem: you create MADness where none was required in the first place, just for the sake of having a somewhat better ranged sustained damage (I say somewhat because even full Agonizing Blast cannot get up to a full longbow Sharpshooter Attack from a full-fledged Fighter). Of course you get the Sneak Attack damage which even things quite a bit, but only towards the end. And it compels you to favor this as much as possible, instead of using all the things you could do as a bonus action.
Archer with warlock levels. That means good dex and cha by definition. I changed the split and included rogue levels. No added madness. The build does sacrifice some things (such as higher level spells) compared to, say, a 11/9 split (which would be my preference if I had to multiclass EK/warlock), while it does get some other useful (rogue) features in return, although a bit later in the game. But madness does not enter this equation, it's about as mad as a singleclass EK. That is partly because it is surprisingly less feat dependent, as you are not required to invest in weapon feats like sharpshooter and/or crossbow expert (while getting the same amount of ASIs that any non-fighter non-rogue build would). Regarding dpr comparison with an archer fighter, haven't done the math, but I would be surprised if it isn't significantly better. Bonus action competition is or isn't an issue, depending on how the DM rules that darkness works (ie hex against boss, use darkness/ or no other concentration spell against mobs).


If you really wanted to do that, it's better to keep CHA just decent and take some levels in Sorcerer instead to compliment Rogue: you get enough SP to use Quickened when really needed. Battlemaster 3 / Draconic Sorcerer 6 / Arcane Trickster 11 slightly loses out on damage but gets better spellcasting, extra precision when needed and Quicken metamagic. Or just go Fighter 2 / Draconic Sorcerer 5 / Arcane Trickster 11 to squeeze two levels of Warlock to get Devil's Sight and any other Invocation, along with Hex.
I think this is colored by how you dont like the fluff of 'blast and shoot'. I dont see any of these suggestions being better. Personally I like the EK11/caster9 archer. Sorcerer if the game starts at high levels (or if I dont mind the waiting), wizard otherwise.


Or just keep low CHA and use Warmagic to make a longbow attack after casting True Strike. ;)C'mon...


Or simply to Fighter Battlemaster 6 for Action Surge, Manoeuvers and Extra Attack, Warlock 3 for Devil Sight and Darkness, then go Arcane Trickster Rogue up all the way to 11, maxing DEX and grabbing Skulker and Mage Slayer feat.
In what way is this small variation to our benefit? There is a reason why one of them is a known build and this variation isn't. I am not saying it's bad, but it's a change towards the wrong direction.

[Maxilian]

Second there is the MADness problem: you create MADness where none was required in the first place, just for the sake of having a somewhat better ranged sustained damage (I say somewhat because even full Agonizing Blast cannot get up to a full longbow Sharpshooter Attack from a full-fledged Fighter). Of course you get the Sneak Attack damage which even things quite a bit, but only towards the end. And it compels you to favor this as much as possible, instead of using all the things you could do as a bonus action.

Is full Agonizing Blast + 1 Longbow / Crossbow attack :P

But yes, it does make him quite MAD, IMHO if the Hexblade is a valid option for the OP, it could solve that (though i think it gotta be a melee weapon -so a thrown weapon-) without having to sacrifice much.

[Citan]

Archer with warlock levels. 1. That means good dex and cha by definition. I changed the split and included rogue levels. No added madness. The build does sacrifice some things (such as higher level spells) compared to, say, a 11/9 split (which would be my preference if I had to multiclass EK/warlock), while it does get some other useful (rogue) features in return, although a bit later in the game. But madness does not enter this equation,2. it's about as mad as a singleclass EK. That is partly because it is surprisingly less feat dependent, as you are not required to invest in weapon feats like sharpshooter and/or crossbow expert (while getting the same amount of ASIs that any non-fighter non-rogue build would). Regarding dpr comparison with an archer fighter, haven't done the math,3. but I would be surprised if it isn't significantly better. Bonus action competition is or isn't an issue, depending on how the DM rules that darkness works (ie hex against boss, use darkness/ or no other concentration spell against mobs).

In what way is this small variation to our benefit? 4. There is a reason why one of them is a known build and this variation isn't. I am not saying it's bad, but it's a change towards the wrong direction.
1 & 2. Nop, you are wrong. Sorry, but plain wrong.
First, an EK can perfectly cope with dumped stat, although that's a bit of a waste of its abilities (notably Eldricht Strike): would just have to pick up self-buff spells, which are enough to blow most spell slots anyways: Shield, Absorb Elements, Blur, Haste, Greater Invisibility.
This would stay any true for an Eldricht Knight with a slice of Warlock: you get enough utility or non-stat dependent spells to be content (Hex, Armor of Agathys, Mirror Image, Darkness, etc).

Second, even an Eldricht Knight that wants to use his Eldricht Strike ability can perfectly cope with keeping an ending 16 in INT (either 14+2, or starting 16) and never look back (unless he multiclasses into Wizard to get more slots and more potent spells because he wants to be the party AOE/debuffer, in which case he would probably max INT as a priority anyways).
This would stay equally true for an Eldricht Knight with a Warlock multiclass: dump INT hard (not required for multiclass), grabbing only utility, get a 14 or 16 starting CHA for Warlock (depending on whether you take offensive spells or not) and never look back.

In any and all cases, Eldricht Knight can keep space for at least 3 feats, at most 5: Sharpshooter obviously, then any two among Crossbow Expert, Mage Slayer, Lucky, Resilient: Wisdom etc.


Meanwhile, your Warlock & Rogue addition means you want to max DEX (because you want your Sneak Attack to hit) and you want to max CHA (because you want your Agonizing Blast to hit and you want to take the most of your Agonizing Invocation).
On a multiclass build that provides 5 ASI indeed, but "only" 5: you just have one feat left.

3. The build you suggest never gets anything beyond 2nd level spells, and no offensive one would be usable since low INT (and Warlock gets only 1st level spells).
A pure Eldricht Knight can use Magic Weapon, Haste (extra attack) or Greater Invisibility (advantage on attacks) at highest level.
An Eldricht Knight mixed with Warlock 5 (Haste) or Fey Warlock 7 (Greater Invisibility) could do the same on a short-rest basis.
And he could also use offensive spells easily with only 16 CHA (including Agonizing Blast by the way) thanks to either Greater Invisibility or Eldricht Strike.
So, lets take the multiclass option, with at least EK 11, Archery, maxed DEX and Sharpshooter to ignore cover.

Compare with your build with maxed DEX and CHA. Against an AC 18.
(I'll do only the end because no time to do the maths every step).
(Also, I'm not sure how to calculate the chance of a specific combination of events, I'll let people more experienced with maths give us the formula ^^).

A. Your build (fighter (EK) 7/ warlock 2/ rogue 11 build): bonus to attack = 6+5= 11
Without any buff: chance to hit is 70% (6+5 against AC) when no cover at all. Drops to 60% (half-cover, +2 to AC) and 45% (three-quarter cover, +5 to AC).
Theorical average damage (if all hit): 4*(1d10+5)+(1d6+5+6d6) = 4d10+6d6+25 = 22+27+25 = 54.
Theorical maximum damage if all hit: 45+42+25 = 112.

With Magic Weapon: add 1 on the damage.
With Darkness active and Devil's Sight (considering you blow all on this, with a caster level of 2+3 = 5 so 3*2nd level slots, 2*3rd level slots): chances to hit go up to a nice 91% in best occasions, or just ~70% when great cover.

B. Fighter 17 / Warlock 3, max DEX, Sharpshooter (Crossbow Expert)
Base chance to hit: 6+5+2 (archery) = 13 so 80%, whatever cover target has except total cover.
Magic Weapon cast as a 2nd level spell (to be fair with your build): +1 to hit so goes up to 85%.
Darkness? Up to 96%.

Average damage with plain longbow (with Magic Weapon, just add 3): 3*(1d8+5) = 13,5+15 = 28,5.
Max damage: 39.

Average / Total damage with hand crossbow (and Crossbow Expert, add 4 with Magic Weapon): 4*(1d6+5): average 34, maximum 44 (38/48 with Magic Weapon).

Lets use the gambling benefit of Sharpshooter, and substract 5 to our to-hit.
Chance to hit is now 55% (base), 60% (Magic Weapon) or ~80% (advantage).

Longbow now deals average 58,5, max 69.
Crossbow now deals average 74, maximum 84.

Anyways, this build is already better than the tri-class, because he's effective even at long range, even at melee range, even if target has cover. And Hex won't help with that. :) Of course, you can take Spell Sniper, or Sharpshooter. Technically not both.

C. Fighter 15 / Warlock 5, max DEX, Archery, Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Darkness, Haste, Magic Weapon

Haste: additional attack so up to +1d6-8+5(+10) per turn.
So average damage goes up by at least 8,5 (crossbow, no gamble) and up to 14,5 (longbow, gamble).

So total average damage per turn:
crossbow, no gamble: 42,5.
crossbow, gamble: 88,5.
longbow, no gamble: 38.
longbow, gamble: 73.

D. Fighter 13 / Warlock 7, max DEX, Archery, Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Darkness, Haste, Magic Weapon, Greater Invisibility
Magic Weapon (4th level): +2 to hit (base chance 90%, or 65% if gamble), +2 damage (so up to +8 damage per turn).
You can now enable Sharpshooter with only a small loss of accuracy against targets with no cover (compared to the tri-class) and get tremendously better against targets with cover (compared to the tri-class).
Or cast Greater Invisibility to get better offense and defense-wise.

All these comparisons are not even taking advantage of all the benefits the EK/Warlock builds could get from plain magic weapons, other people buffing them (like a Bard upcasting Elemental Weapon to give +3 to hit and +3d4 damage) or just things he could do himself much more reliably than the tri-class, like...
Using Eldricht Strike to apply a Hold Person/Monster then unleashing critical hits from 5 feet away at advantage -thanks to Crossbow Expert and paralyzed condition.
Or just Shove a people prone with one of the weapon attacks to get advantage (and maybe using War Magic to unleash Eldricht Blast as a consequence).
Or protect the whole party while improving his own damage by casting Slow or Blindness.
Or break a caster's concentration through repeated attacks and Mage Slayer feat.
Or prepare a BBEG's demise by a following friend through a heightened Bestow Curse. ;)
(Honestly, the best debuffer ever is either EK 11 / Wild Magic Sorc 9, or AT 9 / Wild Magic Sorcerer 11 ;)).

Sorry, the tri-class is just plain worse whatever way you look at it. More difficult to build, comes online much later, with some of the best benefits of Rogue being wasted: Cunning Action? Nope, bonus action already used. And a ranged guy does not need that much mobility/sneakiness anyways. Uncanny Dodge? Great Ability but will come late and again less often useful than for a melee guy.

4. Sorry, the build you mentioned is not widely known. It's actually the first time I see it, and seems obvious to me the reasons why.
My suggested build allows you to ensure you have a a backup plan against hard targets with high AC (Extra Attack or Precision manoeuver), while taking advantage of Magical Ambush, Cunning Action and possible Action Surge to cast useful spells (Hold Person, Shatter, Blindness) or having either Darkness, or Mirror Image, or both, available on nearly all encounters. And keeping enough feats to max DEX, grab Sharpshooter and either Mage Slayer or Skulker. Basically you drop higher level features of Rogues to enhance significantly his sneaky magical ambusher side.


Is full Agonizing Blast + 1 Longbow / Crossbow attack :P

But yes, it does make him quite MAD, IMHO if the Hexblade is a valid option for the OP, it could solve that (though i think it gotta be a melee weapon -so a thrown weapon-) without having to sacrifice much.
Very true, but I didn't take UA into account because, well, it's unofficial for very good reason: it's often overpowered. This is especially true for the Hexblade. :)
Otherwise, Hexblade apart, although I'm not familiar at all with the latest UA, I guess something mixing Revised Ranger and Arcane Archer Fighter could be nice

[FaceofBo]

Oh wow, this blew up overnight. Didn't honestly expect to get this much notice. First, I'd like to thank you all for helping me with this. Second, all of these builds are incredibly well thought out. Personally, I think that Fighter 13/Warlock 7 would work best for what I am doing, giving me a few of the spell tricks, allowing access to a significant amount of the Ability Score Improvements, and access to a few of the better spells like Greater Invisibility, Darkness, so on and so forth. While I like the Rogue dip, and the massive bump with sneak attack, but having to rely on Hide every turn, or having someone directly on top of your target gets tedious and you become a little less useless, 'cause if your barbarian is already sitting on the enemy Wizard makin sweet sweet love to his face with his ax, you really aren't super needed there. Both of the builds have definite uses, but to me, I'm pretty sure that Fighter 13/Warlock 7 makes more sense both from a build standpoint and from a narrative standpoint

Thanks again for all the feedback y'all

[Corran]

1 & 2. Nop, you are wrong. Sorry, but plain wrong.
Always leave that for the end, after you have showed me why I am wrong. If you just start with it, well, lets just say it has a chance the the person you are trying to convince will not read you comments with an open mind.


First, an EK can perfectly cope with dumped stat, although that's a bit of a waste of its abilities (notably Eldricht Strike): would just have to pick up self-buff spells, which are enough to blow most spell slots anyways: Shield, Absorb Elements, Blur, Haste, Greater Invisibility.
Yes that's a possibility. I would argue that it is not an optimal scenario for an archer EK. What is he boosting with his points beyond dex? Str, wis or cha? Edit: Or con? (completelly forgot about it)


This would stay any true for an Eldricht Knight with a slice of Warlock: you get enough utility or non-stat dependent spells to be content (Hex, Armor of Agathys, Mirror Image, Darkness, etc).
Same as above, but with more conviction now, since better spells.


Second, even an Eldricht Knight that wants to use his Eldricht Strike ability can perfectly cope with keeping a starting 16 in INT and never look back.
He could have it at 8 too as you said above. What is the argument here? That a pure EK will eventually have access to more feats? I dont debate that. A pure EK will be more versatile, the build in question will have a better dpr. Personally I prefer the pure EK. Even more so an EK that caps at 11 and adds levels in caster.


This would stay equally true for an Eldricht Knight with a Warlock multiclass: dump INT hard (not required for multiclass), grabbing only utility, get a 14 or 16 starting CHA for Warlock (depending on whether you take offensive spells or not) and never look back.
I disagree on the 14 charisma, unless we are talking about a very small dip in warlock, in which case I dont think it's worth it (or at least, I wouldnt prefer it; hard to make a full and complete comparison to another split with more warlock levels, so I am basing this on instinct shaped by preference). Personally I like sorcerer even more. But it comes online really late (13-15+), so I think the best choice is wizard (unless starting at high levels).


In any and all cases, Eldricht Knight can keep space for at least 3 feats, at most 5: Sharpshooter obviously, then any two among Crossbow Expert, Mage Slayer, Lucky, Resilient: Wisdom etc.
True. They compete with extra damage and a touch of control. I prefer the latter, but I like ES enough so I would generally prefer a pure ek to the build in question, overall (not only because of ES).



Meanwhile, your Warlock & Rogue addition means you want to max DEX (because you want your Sneak Attack to hit) and you want to max CHA (because you want your Agonizing Blast to hit and you want to take the most of your Agonizing Invocation).
On a multiclass build that provides 5 ASI indeed, but "only" 5: you just have one feat left.
We could leave dex at 16.:smalltongue:
But yes, I think it's safe to assume that anyone playing this build is going for the damage, so that leaves just one feat (or 2 if vhuman, though not darkvision and that kind of sucks). The good thing is that the build does not rely on feats to bring the damage. The fact that the weird split allows for 2 ''extra'' feats (fgher6 and rogue 10) that other splits of that type wouldnt allow is what I am emphasizing. You end up with two 20's (for maximum damage) and a feat to spend as you wish (I wish we could raise charisma, but unfortunately it is capped). Point is, that this build does not rely on feats to be a very good dpr, so that takes a lot of pressure of a hypothetical dilemma of the form ''do I raise my stats or do I take feats?''. The damage is built in, it doesnt rely on feats and on the -5/+10 mechanic, which makes GWM and SS builds ineffective against high AC enemies. So that's an added benefit.


3. The build you suggest never gets anything beyond 2nd level spells, and no offensive one would be usable since low INT (and Warlock gets only 1st level spells).
A pure Eldricht Knight can use Magic Weapon, Haste (extra attack) or Greater Invisibility (advantage on attacks) at highest level.
An Eldricht Knight mixed with Warlock 5 (Haste) or Fey Warlock 7 (Greater Invisibility) could do the same on a short-rest basis.
And he could also use offensive spells easily with only 16 CHA (including Agonizing Blast by the way) thanks to either Greater Invisibility or Eldricht Strike.
That's the real benefit here. Offensive spells. They cut into your dpr role ofc, but when you need them, you need them. Versatility. That's why I am not really a fun of the build I suggested. It lacks some versatility via higher level spells. Every other buffing spell adds to the dpr more or less, and the build in question has what it needs to boost it anyawy, in hex and darkness (and even find familiar). You dont need anything else on that front.


(math)
I am not doing it to be a jackass, I really cant look at math right now...
What was the end result, did one of the other builds end with a better dpr?


4. Sorry, the build you mentioned is not widely known. It's actually the first time I see it, and seems obvious to me the reasons why.
But now you do know about it..... HA!!!:smallsmile:


My suggested build allows you to ensure you have a a backup plan against hard targets with high AC (Extra Attack or Precision manoeuver), while taking advantage of Magical Ambush, Cunning Action and possible Action Surge to cast useful spells (Hold Person, Shatter, Blindness) or having either Darkness, or Mirror Image, or both, available on nearly all encounters. And keeping enough feats to max DEX, grab Sharpshooter and either Mage Slayer or Skulker. Basically you drop higher level features of Rogues to enhance significantly his sneaky magical ambusher side.
Fair enough. The one I offered was about dpr (has some control in repelling blast too, but that's a fortunate side effect).

[Citan]

1. Always leave that for the end, after you have showed me why I am wrong. If you just start with it, well, lets just say it has a chance the the person you are trying to convince will not read you comments with an open mind.


Yes that's a possibility. I would argue that it is not an optimal scenario for an archer EK. What is he boosting with his points beyond dex? Str, wis or cha? Edit: Or con? (completelly forgot about it)


Same as above, but with more conviction now, since better spells.


2. He could have it at 8 too as you said above. What is the argument here? That a pure EK will eventually have access to more feats? I dont debate that. A pure EK will be more versatile, the build in question will have a better dpr. Personally I prefer the pure EK. Even more so an EK that caps at 11 and adds levels in caster.


I disagree on the 14 charisma, unless we are talking about a very small dip in warlock, in which case I dont think it's worth it (or at least, I wouldnt prefer it; hard to make a full and complete comparison to another split with more warlock levels, so I am basing this on instinct shaped by preference). Personally I like sorcerer even more. But it comes online really late (13-15+), so I think the best choice is wizard (unless starting at high levels).


True. They compete with extra damage and a touch of control. I prefer the latter, but I like ES enough so I would generally prefer a pure ek to the build in question, overall (not only because of ES).



We could leave dex at 16.:smalltongue:
But yes, I think it's safe to assume that anyone playing this build is going for the damage, so that leaves just one feat (or 2 if vhuman, though not darkvision and that kind of sucks). The good thing is that the build does not rely on feats to bring the damage. The fact that the weird split allows for 2 ''extra'' feats (fgher6 and rogue 10) that other splits of that type wouldnt allow is what I am emphasizing. You end up with two 20's (for maximum damage) and a feat to spend as you wish (I wish we could raise charisma, but unfortunately it is capped). Point is, that this build does not rely on feats to be a very good dpr, so that takes a lot of pressure of a hypothetical dilemma of the form ''do I raise my stats or do I take feats?''. The damage is built in, it doesnt rely on feats and on the -5/+10 mechanic, which makes GWM and SS builds ineffective against high AC enemies. So that's an added benefit.


3. That's the real benefit here. Offensive spells. They cut into your dpr role ofc, but when you need them, you need them. Versatility. That's why I am not really a fun of the build I suggested. It lacks some versatility via higher level spells. Every other buffing spell adds to the dpr more or less, and the build in question has what it needs to boost it anyawy, in hex and darkness (and even find familiar). You dont need anything else on that front.


I am not doing it to be a jackass, I really cant look at math right now...
4. What was the end result, did one of the other builds end with a better dpr?


But now you do know about it..... HA!!!:smallsmile:


Fair enough. The one I offered was about dpr (has some control in repelling blast too, but that's a fortunate side effect).
1. There is truth in what you say, but I could say the same to you ;) After all, you didn't even bother trying to do the math in the first place when you came boasting about the tri-class having some of the best (or implying THE best ;)) damage. ^^

2. No. Even with Eldricht Strike, having a casting stat as low as 8 would still make all offensive spells too unreliable. While just a 14 would make an EK more or less as efficient as a maxed caster (barring Diviner Wizard or Wild Magic Sorcerer obviously), possibly earlier too. That's the great strength of going up to EK 10, or AT 9 for that matter. :)
Lets take an example, comparing a non-Diviner Wizard with maxed INT with an EK/AT that just kept a starting 14 INT, both at 10th level.
WIZ DC = 8+4+5=17.
EK(AT) DC = 8+4+2 = 14.
An enemy with a +6 to save would have just 50% to succeed against a WIS spell, but a 65% chance against an EK/AT spell. Now if the latter manages to enable Eldricht Strike / Magical Ambush the enemy will see his chance drop to 42%.
>> I realize I forgot about your build ending with access to Magical Ambush. So indeed in that regard you end with similar efficiency on the "Wizard" side provided both characters would have the same casting stat bonus.

The problem with your build though, is that you will probably have dumped INT to give some space for starting CHA. Then max it. While grabbing just two levels of Warlock, so not even access to Hold Person or the like. So most of your offensive 1st and 2nd level spells will have to be cast with INT (probably 8, 10 at most), making the final chance to save plain bad in normal situation, and just decent enough if you can impose disadvantage beforehand.
To take the example as previous, the enemy would have a base chance of success of 80%, or 64% with disadvantage.

While the pure EK can be built perfectly fine with both low INT and CHA (buffs only) and the EK/Lock be largely good enough with dumped INT and decent CHA (just a 14 for multiclassing Warlock) and still end better than a pure Warlock in applying debuffs thanks to Eldricht Strike. Because he doesn't care about maxing CHA for the sole purpose of Eldricht Blast (which is sadly incompatible with Eldricht Strike).

Or you can build an EK / Warlock with max CHA to use War Magic on Agonizing Blast, take a single level of Rogue for Expertise "just to be sure", and stack on Crossbow Expert and Spell Sniper feat to be great in melee, ranged and debuff all combined.

3. Not necessarily true either. As I illustrated, an EK with Eldricht Strike Hold Person and Crossbow Expert will actually improve his damage, in addition to applying strong control and enhancing allies's damage.
The thing is, he will be able to do thing much much earlier than the tri-class. And he will also end with better debuffs which also help immensely the party overall (Slow = -2 AC = easier to hit, Fear = easier to avoid attacks = easier to stay on the offensive).

4. Basically, at the very end of your career, provided you use Darkness on a constant basis (so putting aside teamwork problems and darkness counters), tri-class CAN beat the dual-class in terms of maximum damage against a target without cover, provided both use only the Darkness+Devil's Sight combo...
But will lose everywhere else (average damage is usually below, tri-class drops considerably once target has cover also, dual-class has more spell slots overall and more options to buff his own damage).
Of course you can address the cover shortcoming, but that means capping at least one stat to 18 to free a "slot" because you need both Sharpshooter and Spell Sniper. And you still miss on all other goodies the dual-class can (and should for some) grab: Resilient, Mage Slayer, Skulker, or even Observant, Ritual Caster, Tou

And whatever way you plan to build it, it becomes really efficient much later too because you are dependent on both character level (which is usually a strength, but here actually not) and mid-level features in both classes: War Magic = Fighter 7, Sneak Attack becomes really valuable once it's past 3d6 imo (= average goes beyond the average provided by a Sharpshooter extra attack).
The best way to build the tri-class you suggest would probably be EK 5 (so you first get Extra Attack as an alternative to melee weapon cantrips, and good upgrade for ranged damage, along with first DEX bump) > Rogue 5 (go straight up to Uncanny Dodge, add a decent Sneak Attack bonus damage, max DEX) > Warlock 2 (so you get Eldricht Blast right at 11th level when it becomes good, and another good increase on 11th level because you grab Agonizing Blast) >EK 7 (bump CHA, get War Magic) > finish Rogue.
I know my progression seems bad at first since we are waiting for a long time to get Agonizing Blast, but honestly before level 11 it's plain better to go with weapon attacks: you can profit from Archery with a longbow (better chance to hit) or take TWF with finesse weapon for added versatility (extra attack in melee), you can max DEX as a priority (better to hit, better initiative, better AC, better saves) and, from char level 5 to 10, comparing Longbow Extra Attack with Agonizing Blast you basically lose out nothing at the time: the lesser die size (d8 instead of d10) is compensated by the DEX bumps.

[Corran]

1. Could say the same to you ;) After all, you didn't even bother trying to do the math in the first place when you came boasting about the tri-class having the highest damage. ^^

2. No. Even with Eldricht Strike, having a casting stat as low as 8 would still make all offensive spells too unreliable. While just a 14 would make an EK more or less as efficient as a maxed caster (barring Diviner Wizard or Wild Magic Sorcerer obviously), possibly earlier too. That's the great strength of going up to EK 10, or AT 9 for that matter.
>> I realize I forgot about your build ending with access to Magical Ambush. So indeed in that regard you end with similar efficiency on the "Wizard" side.
The problem with your build though, is that you will probably have dumped INT to give some space for starting CHA. Then max it. While grabbing just two levels of Warlock, so not even access to Hold Person or the like.
While the pure EK can be built perfectly fine with both low INT and CHA (buffs only) or dumped INT and decent CHA (just a 14 for multiclassing Warlock) and still end better than a pure Warlock in applying debuffs thanks to Eldricht Strikes. Because he doesn't care about maxing CHA for the sole purpose of Eldricht Blast (which is sadly incompatible with Eldricht Strike).
Or you can build an EK / Warlock with max CHA to use War Magic on Agonizing Blast, take a single level of Rogue for Expertise "just to be sure", and stack on Crossbow Expert and Spell Sniper feat to be great in melee, ranged and debuff all combined.

3. Not necessarily true either. As I illustrated, an EK with Eldricht Strike Hold Person and Crossbow Expert will actually improve his damage, in addition to applying strong control and enhancing allies's damage.
The thing is, he will be able to do thing much much earlier than the tri-class. And he will also end with better debuffs which also help immensely the party overall (Slow = -2 AC = easier to hit, Fear = easier to avoid attacks = easier to stay on the offensive).

4. Basically, at the very end of your career, provided you use Darkness on a constant basis, tri-class CAN beat the dual-class in terms of maximum damage against a target without cover, provided both use only the Darkness+Devil's Sight combo, but will lose everywhere else (average damage is usually below, tri-class drops considerably once target has cover also, dual-class has more spell slots overall and more options to buff his own damage).
1. Citan, I honestly dont know how to answer to this, because I fail to see how this applies to what I have been doing. I wont try to prove I am not an elephant.

2. I dont like the way you illustrate it (comparing efficiency with a maxed caster). Let me clarify (and I dont think we will disagree on that). Being on par with maxed casters is not the goal here (in repect to having enemies fail against our DC; ie not talking about spell comparisons). ES will provide a boost, depending on what was the initial chance that the enemy had to save against our DC, determined by INT. Now, this is very fluid, as it will also depend on what save we target, what's the enemy, etc. Worst case scenario (which can go either way, meaning either for an 8 INT build or for a 14 INT build -but I will assume it goes in favour of 14 INT most of the time, though no data to confirm that), is a difference of about 5% (very roughly) in efficiency boost. Meaning that's how much better ES will work most of the time for one of these two values (8, 14), given the 3 point difference in modifiers. So ES (or MA) by itself is not an important reason regarding how much we end up boosting our INT.
But reliability has to matter, right? Well, yes, but how much it matters, is determined by how much value you can squeeze out of your offensive spells in correlation with what these spells compete with for your action (so in a sense, what are you giving up when you decide to use your action for casting). For examle, an archer/caster that has not invested on weapon feats that improve on their damage, has need of less [enter mental stat] to justify not taking the attack in order to cast, while an archer/caster that has invested a lot to make his attack sequence strong, we also need a good [enter mental stat] to boost his casting, and thus to be able to justify better when he is casting instead of taking the attack action, which he has paid in resources to boost.
That's also the reason why I mentioned in my previous posts that if an EK archer is multiclassing into caster, then it wouldnt be optimal doing so unless they planned for a good casting stat (and gave some further points towards that, depending what is the caster class you are multiclassing into). You have to make your casting a valid alternative option, as if it is just a situational benefit, then the mc loses a lot of its value and it's not optimal to do so in the first place (unless you are aiming at some gimmick). For the build you are arguing against, its role is not to dabble in debuffing, its main role is to bring damage to the side. It's a very one dimensional build (combat wise), and as I said that's why I dont like it. I guess that's why you dont like it too (cant be sure). Some players do like such builds though, and tbh, preferences aside, it's a good build, in that it has a very specific role in combat (ranged dpr, with some added control built into it and accessible as soon as lvl 5 in repelling blast). Even if I end up with an INT of 14 (say, due to good rolls or sth), I do not want to spend an action casting tasha's hideous laughter or whatever, since that competes with a strong attack for my action. That's another party's member job now. That's why I said, one dimensional. This build lacks versatility as far as its combat role is concerned (it wont dabble at buffing, debuffing, control -other than RB-, tanking, etc), but it's good at what it does.
ps: I dont agree with the assessment that an EK archer is perfectly fine with a low INT, if we are talking about optimization. But I've already said that in y previous post. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that one (assuming perfectly fine refered to optimization). Also, IMO it isnt worth it if an EK is multiclassing into warlock just for some cha-independent buffs. You get enough of those as an EK already, if you are going warlock, make it count (but as I said previously, this is normally not a good idea, sine a more traditional EK/warlock build -such as a 11/9- will take a long time before it can start making profit out of a high charisma bonus (andd in the meantime the low int willl hurt).

3. I dont see how an EK with CE with and hold person will add anything to his dpr by using this tactics.
ps: Debuffing is not an area the build suggested dabbles in, but I made my cae about it above, in (2).

4. I find that very counterintuitive and very hard to believe. But since I dont have the intention of doing the math myself (or even checking yours), I cannot really argue about it in a construcctive way.

[Citan]

@Corran: please reread my previous post, which I edited in the last few hours to add some examples.
Or, rather, after all, I can put this here. ;)

2. Casting stat efficiency
Lets take an example, comparing a non-Diviner Wizard with maxed INT with an EK/AT that just kept a starting 14 INT, both at 10th level.
WIZ DC = 8+4+5=17.
EK(AT) DC = 8+4+2 = 14.
An enemy with a +6 to save would have just 50% to succeed against a WIS spell, but a 65% chance against an EK/AT spell. Now if the latter manages to enable Eldricht Strike / Magical Ambush the enemy will see his chance drop to 42%.
>> I realize I forgot about your build ending with access to Magical Ambush. So indeed in that regard you end with similar efficiency on the "Wizard" side provided both characters would have the same casting stat bonus.

The problem with your tri-class build is that...
a) All your EK and AT offensive spells rely on INT.
b) Eldricht Blast rely on CHA, which you want to bump at the very least to 18, and max it to 20 for an optimized build because it affects both your to-hit rate and damage.
c) With only a 2-level dip in Warlock, you get only very few offensive spells. You don't even get Darkness, so you will have to wait for at the very best character level 9 to get it (see below).
d) You still want decent Constitution (HP, concentration) and Wisdom (at least a 10).
So you are really cramped overall in stats.

So most of your offensive 1st and 2nd level spells will have to be cast with INT (probably 8, 10 at most), making the final chance to save plain bad in normal situation, and just decent enough if you can impose disadvantage beforehand.
To take the example as previous, the enemy would have a base chance of success of 80%, or 64% with disadvantage.

All the while...
- A pure EK can be built perfectly fine with both low INT and CHA (buffs only like Mirror Image and Haste), and instead improve his direct sustained efficiency by grabbing Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Mage Slayer and whatever else. Also keeping a space for better defensive starting stats and Resilient: Wisdom.

- The dual-class EK/Lock be largely good enough with dumped INT and decent CHA (just a 14 for multiclassing Warlock) and still end better than a pure Warlock (or most other casters) in applying debuffs thanks to Eldricht Strike. Because he doesn't care about maxing CHA for the sole purpose of Eldricht Blast (which is sadly incompatible with Eldricht Strike).
- The dual-class EK/Lock could also decide to get starting 16 CHA and use one ASI to bump it, in case of a high level Warlock (so access to much better spells). Then he can uses Agonizing Blast if he wishes so (for example, on a Crossbow Expert build, when target is far away), as well as many good spells which enhance his damage directly or indirectly. Confer example below.

3. Hold Person
I will be blunt, you are actively not trying here. So let's decompose for you.
a) Hold Person imposes paralyzed condition. Paralyzed condition means advantage on all attacks, successful attacks within 5 feet are auto-crits. Critical hit means you double the damage rolls.
b) Crossbow Expert negates the disadvantage one usually gets by making ranged attacks with an enemy within 5 feet.
c) Any EK has Action Surge, Eldricht Strike and can have access to Hold Person, a dual-class could access Hold Monster. With a 16 in casting stat and Crossbow Expert, you can...
- As an opener, make weapon attacks to activate Eldricht Strike then cast Hold Person (a pure EK can do it in one turn without Action Surge, dual-class will need to use it if they wish to realize it, except a dual-class with Sorcerer), with a high chance of succeeding (an enemy with a +6 in WIS saves, against DC 8+6+3=17 in the end, would have only 25% chance to avoid) while you are using your speed to close in.
- On subsequent turns, unleash Attack on him from 5 feet away: since you have advantage, plus Archery, you have an extremely good chance to hit (against AC 18, to-hit is 96% with advantage if you don't activate the "high damage" benefit of Sharpshooter if you took it anyways). Since it's an autocrit, you double the amount of damage dice rolled. So 1-2 turns are enough to compensate the "potential damage" loss of the action spent on cast on previous turn.
And this is without even taking into account all the extra damage you provide indirectly by making the creature much easier to hit for all your allies as well.

4. End results of comparison
Note that I didn't take Hex into account since both have access to it, and there is only one attack of difference between both builds. So ~5 average damage won't make a difference.
And in short, weapon attacks of dual-class take an easy lead because he gets more slots to use on self-buffs, better buffs earlier (Magic Weapon, Haste), can grab Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert easily to stack on starting Archery so has...
- A better chance to hit in normal situations (no cover), a much better chance if cover, from start to end...
- And nearly as good a chance to hit as the tri-class when activating Sharpshooter bonus damage if using Magic Weapon (+1 or 2 on all attacks) or Haste (one extra chance to hit) or any spell providing advantage (especially Darkness, since he can afford to take Devil's Sight invocation).
And +10 per attack makes a great deal in average damage.

Basically, the problems with the triclass are that...

a) It comes online very late because Sneak Attack starts beating Sharpshooter arrow in average once it hits 3d6 and beyond. And you need War Magic which needs 7 levels in Fighter.

b) Until character level 11, as far as Actions are concerned, Extra Attack with a longbow plain beats Agonizing Blast, because better chance to hit (Archery) + bumping DEX shores up the die size difference while also increasing AC, Initiative, DEX saves. Whereas bumping CHA would only benefit Agonizing Blast only. Once you get War Magic, it gets slightly better if no spell are used, but while a build planning on using it dearly will max CHA first, a build planning on Extra Attack will take Crossbow Expert. When you hit level 8 as an EK, you can have the cake and eat it too thanks to having had already 2 ASI earlier.

c) You have a conundrum: either "covering the cover" by grabbing Sharpshooter and Spell Sniper, but keeping both attack stats at 18. Which means a good deal of missed attacks in the long run. Or ditch both to max attack stats, and see your efficiency drop tremendously as soon as enemy takes cover. Because overall, in your build, Agonizing Blast and Sneak Attack split more or less in half the total damage of your turn. Or just max one and keep the other low, in which case you will still lose much efficiency against cover. And any way, you deprive yourself of important feats such as Resilient: Wisdom or Dexterity, or feats that would greatly improve you overall such as Mage Slayer.

d) You never get at least 2nd level Warlock spells, and offensive spells of Wizard are just unusable. So only Hellish Rebuke (but you shouldn't get attacked by melee that often), or Burning Hands (same), or Faerie Fire: basically the only good one since it provides advantage more reliably than Find Familiar (which can die very easily) but requires you to take a specific Patron.
On EK/AT side, you will have to wait a dear time to get Darkness and Mirror Image, and even then you will have fairly limited slots.
Additionally, the "bad" split of EK (7) and AT (11) means that, if following PHB strictly (calculating spellcaster level separately), you lose 2 spellcaster levels (in my game, you would add EK and AT levels and "divide and round down" the sum ;)). You end as a 5th level caster (4*1st slots, 3*2nd level, 2*3rd level) but with most spells having no benefits being upcasted: only Absorb Elements, Fog Cloud, Invisibility among non-INT reliant spells have a benefit being upcasted IIRC (and the benefit is usually small or maybe even counterproductive, like Fog Cloud extending too much for your taste).

e) You cannot benefit from all the potential benefits of finding magic weapon, nor the benefits of weapon buffs other people could cast for you (note that to be fair, I used none of those options in my comparison).

[Corran]

@Corran: please reread my previous post, which I edited in the last few hours to add some examples.
Or, rather, after all, I can put this here. ;)
Missed the edit. Thanks!



2. Casting stat efficiency
Lets take an example, comparing a non-Diviner Wizard with maxed INT with an EK/AT that just kept a starting 14 INT, both at 10th level.
WIZ DC = 8+4+5=17.
EK(AT) DC = 8+4+2 = 14.
An enemy with a +6 to save would have just 50% to succeed against a WIS spell, but a 65% chance against an EK/AT spell. Now if the latter manages to enable Eldricht Strike / Magical Ambush the enemy will see his chance drop to 42%.
I do not disagree with the math. I hardly think though that this analysis is of meaningful value, as far as build choices are concerned. This is because, as I was saying, ES or MA are not by themselves an indicative factor as to if and how much we should invest on our casting stat. The comparison of an EK to a wizard and how their success rates compare against each other, does not tell me anything. What I need to know, to help myself make a better decision regarding if and how much I will boost my casting stat, IMO, is:
1) what are my options and what effects can I aim for, spellcasting-wise, and
2) With what other actions/options will my spellcasting compete (and how do they compare against each other), action economy wise. This will determine how situational my spellcasting will be, which in turn affects to a great extent its value, its form (ie my picks), and thus my casting stat.

I am adding an extra parameter (which IMO is very defining to how we will be able to define optimization, regarding the choices that we will make), in the form of opportunity cost. Opportunity cost, that is defined by both what kind of options does spellcasting make available, and what we can already do (or we are plan on doing in the next levels) apart from spellcasting, meaning what are my other options with which spell casting will compete for a place in my action economy?

For example, schorching ray will work better on an evoker rather than on an arcane trickster. One of the most important reasons (leaving aside small damage boosts, or opportunity cost in the form of acquiring the spell), is because the evoker forgoes firebolt (or another cantrip) when he casts scorching ray, while the rogue has to sacrifice his at-will which is stronger than the wizard's firebolt.


>> I realize I forgot about your build ending with access to Magical Ambush. So indeed in that regard you end with similar efficiency on the "Wizard" side provided both characters would have the same casting stat bonus.
MA is not overly critical to this build, exactly because of the opportunity cost that non-EB spell scasting would present us with, exactly as I described it above. It can probably find some out of combat application if we go with the arcane trickster route. That's why I keep calling this build one-dimensional. I am not counting on MA (which wuld come really late either way) and debuffing with this build. Too great of an opportunity cost.


The problem with your tri-class build is that...
I think this is part of the confusion, caused probably by me when I was refering to this build as one-dimensional, without giving any further explanation as to what I meant by it. This build is not supposed to cover more than the ranged dpr role when in combat (RB for some control too, but that's about it). To clarify, let me answer your following statements.


a) All your EK and AT offensive spells rely on INT.
In all probability, there wont be any such spells included in the build. Likewise, AT is not the de facto choice (perhaps it's the better choice, but personally I am not sure, as I haven't put much thought into it).


b) Eldricht Blast rely on CHA, which you want to bump at the very least to 18, and max it to 20 for an optimized build because it affects both your to-hit rate and damage.
Yes, this is a heavily dpr focused build. I would assume that the first two ASIs go to CHA, and the next two go to DEX. Probably this happens at levels 6, 8, 13 and 17, leaving one more ASI/feat at 19 to be spent as appropriate. An extra feat at 1 if variant human ofc, in case there is some feat that is so important to take.


c) With only a 2-level dip in Warlock, you get only very few offensive spells. You don't even get Darkness, so you will have to wait for at the very best character level 9 to get it (see below).
Yes, that's true. That's a critical point for this build (you could say it's when it comes online, ie 'shoot and blast'). Dont mind the lack of walock offensive spells, though it would be nice to have them. It might be even worth it to sacrifice one or more rogue levels to add extra warlock levels, so that you can get a few good spells (that would trigger by your charisma and) that you want, depending on what you want out of a build, but I would still remind you of the opportunity cost, not as it is something prohibitive, but it is restrictive. If you want dpr, I think the split is fine as is.


d) You still want decent Constitution (HP, concentration) and Wisdom (at least a 10).
So you are really cramped overall in stats.
Eh, lets see (and I am trying to figure this out for the first time!):
Vhuman: STR 8, DEX 15+1 = 16, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 15+1 = 16
Halfelf: STR 8, DEX 15+1 = 16, CON 13+1 = 14, INT 10 (or 12), WIS 12 (or 10), CHA 14+2 = 16
There are probably more optimal ways to go about it, but these are just my first thoughts.


So most of your offensive 1st and 2nd level spells will have to be cast with INT (probably 8, 10 at most), making the final chance to save plain bad in normal situation, and just decent enough if you can impose disadvantage beforehand.
To take the example as previous, the enemy would have a base chance of success of 80%, or 64% with disadvantage.
This goes back to the ''misunderstanding''. I dont see this build making good use of any offensive spells that rely on INT. Hex, darkness and find familiar are the first picks that come to mind, with some defensive and utility spells to cover the gaps. The way I see it (and that goes back to why I personally dont like this build because it's not versatile enough for my taste), there is not enough room for spellcasting during combat. The focus is on spamming the strong at-will, which is afterall the reason why the split is the way it is. Pure artillery, with some control and durability built in.


All the while...
- A pure EK can be built perfectly fine with both low INT and CHA (buffs only like Mirror Image and Haste), and instead improve his direct sustained efficiency by grabbing Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Mage Slayer and whatever else. Also keeping a space for better defensive starting stats and Resilient: Wisdom.
I wont agree with that, at least with the part that we dont start with a 16 in INT (assuming always we are talking about a ranged EK). With less need for CON, and with ES working better for a ranged EK (in a sense of how I assume you like mage slayer on a ranged mage slayer), I dont think it is optimal to start with anythig lower than 15 for our INT on point buy (ie excluding bonuses). As for feats vs bumping INT, this is more difficult to debate and reach objective conclusions.


- The dual-class EK/Lock be largely good enough with dumped INT and decent CHA (just a 14 for multiclassing Warlock) and still end better than a pure Warlock (or most other casters) in applying debuffs thanks to Eldricht Strike. Because he doesn't care about maxing CHA for the sole purpose of Eldricht Blast (which is sadly incompatible with Eldricht Strike).
- The dual-class EK/Lock could also decide to get starting 16 CHA and use one ASI to bump it, in case of a high level Warlock (so access to much better spells). Then he can uses Agonizing Blast if he wishes so (for example, on a Crossbow Expert build, when target is far away), as well as many good spells which enhance his damage directly or indirectly. Confer example below.

It's paragraphs like these that confuse and tire me. They are too general, and I am having a hard time to even try and make sense out of them (cause I try to dig deeper and see if I can find any specific split, or build, for which your assertions make for an optimal scenario), never mind argue against or agree with what was said. It's also very difficult to try and structure an answer without taking copious amounts of time to provide justification, when I only have what seems to me (and it might be because of my fault, I dont mean to blame you) vague statements.

For example, I dont see any benefit in going with a dumped INT, only to aim for a decent CHA (if you are going for a low INT and aim for a 9-10 dip in a charisma based spellcaster, and you are in it for the long game, then I would say that you should start with a 16 in charisma - and possibly boost it too with ASIs; though I think sorcerer is far better than warlock for that purpose).
I also find it very difficult to characterize an EK/wrl as a bettter debuffer than a pure warlock. I get that you are driving at how if we aim for a good charisma, we have eldritch strike to boost even further our effective DC, but I dont think this makes the EK/wrl a better debuffer. They will get the spells that matter (charisma based) too late. So, at the very high levels, perhaps (I say perhaps, cause the better effective DC has to compete now with any arcanums that debuff).
I am also not a fan of the idea of investing in EB to have it as a back-up option. To exhagerate a bit, let me compare it with a BM fighter that spends points both for STR and DEX, and takes both GWM and SS, just to be good at many different situations than specialize in something. Granted, it's a bad analogy, but hopefully you get where I am driving at with this.



3. Hold Person
I will be blunt, you are actively not trying here. So let's decompose for you.
a) Hold Person imposes paralyzed condition. Paralyzed condition means advantage on all attacks, successful attacks within 5 feet are auto-crits. Critical hit means you double the damage rolls.
b) Crossbow Expert negates the disadvantage one usually gets by making ranged attacks with an enemy within 5 feet.
c) Any EK has Action Surge, Eldricht Strike and can have access to Hold Person, a dual-class could access Hold Monster. With a 16 in casting stat and Crossbow Expert, you can...
- As an opener, make weapon attacks to activate Eldricht Strike then cast Hold Person (a pure EK can do it in one turn without Action Surge, dual-class will need to use it if they wish to realize it, except a dual-class with Sorcerer), with a high chance of succeeding (an enemy with a +6 in WIS saves, against DC 8+6+3=17 in the end, would have only 25% chance to avoid) while you are using your speed to close in.
- On subsequent turns, unleash Attack on him from 5 feet away: since you have advantage, plus Archery, you have an extremely good chance to hit (against AC 18, to-hit is 96% with advantage if you don't activate the "high damage" benefit of Sharpshooter if you took it anyways). Since it's an autocrit, you double the amount of damage dice rolled. So 1-2 turns are enough to compensate the "potential damage" loss of the action spent on cast on previous turn.
And this is without even taking into account all the extra damage you provide indirectly by making the creature much easier to hit for all your allies as well.
I'll admit, I forgot to take advantage into consideration when thinking this (I also had the chance for the enemy to save, even out with the chance to fail twice, which is not very accurate, but probably not very far off). Sure, I agree, it can enhance dpr. Thanks for the breakdown!


4. End results of comparison
(snip)
I'll not go into that. And I apologize for this. I'm really not in the mood for number crunching right now (not even reading it, when someone else did all the work and just presents me with the findings). Especially since it's a build I am not geniunly interested in playing. I'll copy paste this part and save it in my dnd folder, so I can give it a look at some later date though. And if you have made any mistakes...... I'LL.BE.BACK. MUAHAHAHA!!!!!
Thanks for the analysis!

[Citan]

Thanks for the detailed reply.

And I agree there was a misunderstanding on my part about our opinion on what and how to use casting stat.
I don't agree though on the fact that a pure Eldricht Knight "should" start with a 16 INT. While I would do so personally, because I love using spells, I also understand perfectly people who just start with something as low as 10 and don't care about, because a pure EK that wants to build as an weapon archer doesn't have that many spells slots anyways, and plenty of good buffs to use them on anyways. And this means he gets all the feats he needs to be great as an Archer.

Also, I'm a bit sad I didn't manage to stress the fact that with Eldricht Strike or Magical Ambush, just a 14 makes you already better than a pure caster efficiency-wise as soon as you get it.
Agreed it's difficult without concrete example that's why I took a creature with a +6 (which seemed a fairly common bonus at the time). But really whatever creature you take the result will be the same, although obviously it wouldn't matter that much against a creature with low save, and would'nt help that much more against a creature with 9+ save. ;) But mathematically-wise, INT 14 with disadvantage always beat INT 20 without. Confer this lifesaver blog post (http://andrewgelman.com/2014/07/12/dnd-5e-advantage-disadvantage-probability/) (I should make a signature someday and put it inside instead of just pasting it every two weeks or so ^^). ;)

That was kinda my point in fact: the tri-class just pigeon-hole you in taking stats bumps and making catch-22 choices (max an attack stat or manage cover situations? Max a stat and be weak against WIS spells or shore this weakness? Etc) to try and cover the weakness born from having its sustained damage half-split between two different stats...
While a pure EK or a dual-class has a choice between dumping his stat (8), keeping a starting decent one for occasional Eldricht Strike spellcasting (14 for multiclass) or focus on casting stat to use many offensive spells as the party debuffer (16+), while still grabbing the strictly required feats for mid-to-high campaigns (Sharpshooter or Spell Sniper, Crossbow Expert, Resilient: Wisdom, maybe Mage Slayer).

And having the -5+10 option as a weapon archer in addition to +2 (Archery) and ignore cover (Sharpshooter), on a 3-4 attacks per turn, helps you deal at least as much, and generally more, average damage than the tri-class counterpart at most levels.

And even as far as non-stat dependant or self-buffs are concerned, the tri-class get less of them, less powerful, and much later.

That's why it falls short compared to the dual-class, whatever way you look at it, even when analyzing it under the exclusive prism of sustained damage per turn. ;)
Note though, I didn't take Find Familiar into account, first because it's a creature that dies quickly so not that reliable, second because, as Hex, both dual-class and tri-class get access to it.
Although it's obviously more useful for the tri-class because it means you could just max CHA, keep a 16 DEX and ask for Help from the familiar solely for the sake of your Sneak Attack bonus action (if I understand correctly, never really used a familiar in such a way). That's a nice thing in fact I didn't think of, but I don't know how to accurately integrate such hypothesis in comparison. ^^

[CaptainSarathai]

My question is why you're going 13/7 Fighter/Warlock. Plan out your leveling, and try to imagine where the campaign is likely to stop. Most APs don't go beyond 15.

There's a reason that people say to go Ranger for a bow character. You get Hunter's Mark, and it's basically Hex.

You can do great things with a Fighter Warlock. You can do great things with a Fighter Rogue. A Warlock Rogue.

But dipping levels into Warlock and not using Eldritch Blast as part of a ranged build seems kind of silly to me.

If you want a spell, just grab it with Magic Initiate or Spell Sniper.

[Citan]

Oh wow, this blew up overnight. Didn't honestly expect to get this much notice. First, I'd like to thank you all for helping me with this. Second, all of these builds are incredibly well thought out. Personally, I think that Fighter 13/Warlock 7 would work best for what I am doing, giving me a few of the spell tricks, allowing access to a significant amount of the Ability Score Improvements, and access to a few of the better spells like Greater Invisibility, Darkness, so on and so forth. While I like the Rogue dip, and the massive bump with sneak attack, but having to rely on Hide every turn, or having someone directly on top of your target gets tedious and you become a little less useless, 'cause if your barbarian is already sitting on the enemy Wizard makin sweet sweet love to his face with his ax, you really aren't super needed there. Both of the builds have definite uses, but to me, I'm pretty sure that Fighter 13/Warlock 7 makes more sense both from a build standpoint and from a narrative standpoint

Thanks again for all the feedback y'all


My question is why you're going 13/7 Fighter/Warlock. Plan out your leveling, and try to imagine where the campaign is likely to stop. Most APs don't go beyond 15.

There's a reason that people say to go Ranger for a bow character. You get Hunter's Mark, and it's basically Hex.

You can do great things with a Fighter Warlock. You can do great things with a Fighter Rogue. A Warlock Rogue.

But dipping levels into Warlock and not using Eldritch Blast as part of a ranged build seems kind of silly to me.

If you want a spell, just grab it with Magic Initiate or Spell Sniper.
Doesn't work like that.
Magic Initiate? Only 1/long rest, 1st level spell.
Spell Sniper? Only provides a cantrip.

As for using Eldricht Blast being silly, well it's actually not. If you don't take Agonizing Blast Invocation, damage is plain subpar compared to an optimized weapon Archer.
If you take Agonizing Blast because you want to use the cantrip, it gives a strong incentive to bump your CHA at least to 16, generally up to 18 at the very least, so still get a decent chance to hit and damage. Even so, it becomes better than weapon attacks only at 11th level (compared to a Fighter without Crossbow Expert) or 17th (if Fighter has Crossbow Expert).

Honestly, people make all a fuss about Eldricht Blast, me being not the last when it comes to caster multiclasses (like Bard), or multiclass which rely on CHA and have no good ranged attack in the first place (Paladin). For a Sharpshooter caster, it's just too costly for the returned value.

Warlock provides many things of great value to EK, even ditching Eldricht Blast: a few spells like Hex (lesser than Hunter's Mark in some way, but more versatile), short-rest slots, possibly earlier access to 2nd level spells, much quicker access to 3rd and 4th level spells, Invocations that expand options (superior darkvision, extra skills, rituals, etc) and short-rest features or added benefits through Patrons.

To take the EK 13 / Fey Warlock 7 example, you get Greater Invisibility or upcast Magic Weapon on a short-rest basis. And still 2*3rd level spells on EK side (probably utility like Leomund's Tiny Hut, Dispel Magic, Glyph of Warding or Wind Wall). I'd well see a Chain or Tome Pact to go with.
It's probably not "the best" (although I think any split would actually be the best in its own way) but it would work very well.
On that note, for a "Greater Invisibility" based build, I'd argue though that renouncing to Fighter's 3rd level spells and instead grab 2 levels of Rogue could be better thanks to Hide as a bonus action, paired with Skulker feat.

[Sir cryosin]

I don't know why you think the ranger is a better Archer then any other class. Because in 5e it's ranked 3 or 4 best. A battle master fighter, any rogue, valor bard, then ranger. Valor bards make great support Archer's because they get 2 attacks(same as ranger's) then at level 10 they can pick up swift quiver (sononer then a ranger) which gives them 2 more attacks. Then add on bard spells you get a nice Archer. Also if your DM let's you. You can go 3 levels of fae warlock pact of the blade and pick up the moonbow and sack spell slots for Smite.

[CaptainSarathai]

The suggestion of Ranger was just because OP thinks it's conventional wisdom, and their post was very confusing in regards to how they seem to imagine this character will work. I'll pull some bits out of it:


The Archer kinda archetype of fighters is something that I rarely see, which I guess is because Ranger's are a thing, but I wanted to go for a bit more damage/attack heavy hitter.
So he's looking for damage, rather than the Ranger's utility tricks. And if that's the goal, then absolutely, a Fighter with a Bow will out damage a Ranger. Likewise is true for Rogues, and a good Valor Bard build. All better than a Ranger.


Instead of the tricks and such of a Ranger, I focused on the just pure attacks of the Fighter
So, OP doesn't want a Ranger, because a Ranger values utility over raw damage.

However, I also wanted a few tricks

I think Rangers are okay and I know they tend to be the better archers, but I just don't really want all the extra tricks, I'm keeping it closer to pure sniper with only 1 or 2 little tricks up my sleeve

The spells that you get with a dip into Warlock all offer great positioning and defensive tools with a little bit of offense to enhance your already pretty formidable attack.

So now we want utility tricks?
It seems very much that the OP wants to play a Ranger, without actually playing a Ranger.
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's because everyone constantly bags on how terrible the Ranger is?
Play a UA scout? UA Arcane Archer? Trickster Rogue with a Bow?
There are tons of options that I think are better than what we're about to jump in to...


after looking through the Eldritch Knight(which was almost perfect) I glanced through the Pact of the Chain Warlock. The tricks/spells offered by 3 levels in Warlock (Chill Touch, Eldritch Blast, Hex, Armor of Agathys, Expeditious Retreat) are quite useful, the usefulness of the Improved Familiar (Scouting, touch spells, their own specific attack) as well as the first level Patron Spells are really solid.
So, EK is almost perfect. It can cast and shoot. But adding in levels of Warlock seems better still.
What OP seems to be missing, is that these benefits are mutually exclusive for a very long time. You don't get Warcasting until 7th, and OP wants to slow it down with Warlock levels? Not to mention tanking Spell Slots by MCing a third caster into Pact Magic.
All for what? A familiar? Get Ritual Caster and Find Familiar, you don't need 3 levels of Lock for that. You can get that at Fighter4. You can get that a VHuman1.

OP also mention two spells that really don't work well with his plan to be an Archer:
Armor of Agathys
Eldritch Blast

AoA doesn't work beyond melee range. If you're proccing AoA damage as an Archer, you have done something horribly wrong (besides waste limited slots on casting AoA as an action)
Once you get war magic, you can go the route someone already mentioned, using Eldritch and then tagging up with a bow shot. Otherwise, Eldritch Blast is just sitting there, and if you want to have fun with an EB-centric build, you can just MC a SorcLock and go whole hog. Best ranged damage you're gonna get, by far.


The Fighter's 3 attacks give you solid presence on the field, especially when paired with something like Hex for a little bonus damage, and offer a strong ranged dps character.
So, you're not getting 3A until at least 12, if you went Warlock. More like 13, and for this proposed build going all the way into Pacts we're talking level 14.
How long will this campaign run again?
Again, Ranger can get Extra Attack, and for most of the character's likely career, you're only going to have 2 attacks anyway. Taking Fighter and going all the way to 11 for that 3rd attack (then slowing it down for MC) just seems bad.


Eldritch Knight would offer more spell casting definitely, but I figured that it'd start becoming a little too MAD, not sure though.
Not really though. Once you MC out of Eldritch Knight, you get bumped down to having slots like a Lvl2 caster, at level 6+
EKs don't really handle MCing all that well, unless you plan to jump into a full casting class or go hard into Warlock for their slots.
--

Ultimately, I think that OP would be better off either single-classing EK, Ranger, Trickster Rogue, or going UA routes.
Pick up a race with Dark Vision (all of those considered by OP, except VHuman) and eventually take the Ritual Caster feat and grab Find Familiar if you really want it.

If you're going to MC Warlock into the mix, I think you'd almost be better to go with Battle Master or Rogue, and then stick Warlock over top. Both of the Rogue class and BatMaster archetype are front-loaded enough that you'll get your build online by level 6, rather than waiting to 7 just to get War Magic. Their advantages are also immune to the faults of multiclassing a caster.
It may not be as "perfect" as the proposed mix, but I think that it is more practical.

I'm not even saying that an EK/Lock would be bad, but I really don't think that it would be optimal. Try to envision a leveling structure for it, to get a better idea of the class's practicality.

[Citan]

So he's looking for damage, rather than the Ranger's utility tricks. And if that's the goal, then absolutely, a Fighter with a Bow will out damage a Ranger. Likewise is true for Rogues, and a good Valor Bard build. All better than a Ranger.

So, OP doesn't want a Ranger, because a Ranger values utility over raw damage.

So now we want utility tricks?
It seems very much that the OP wants to play a Ranger, without actually playing a Ranger.
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's because everyone constantly bags on how terrible the Ranger is?

I'm not even saying that an EK/Lock would be bad, but I really don't think that it would be optimal. Try to envision a leveling structure for it, to get a better idea of the class's practicality.
Hmm, I admit I didn't notice this as clearly as you but you are right.
Before OP's himself comes and maybe enlighten us, I'd hazard a guess to say that Ranger wasn't fitting his taste, maybe because of the fluff (nature etc) or the kind of utility (scout/traveling)?
Eldricht Knight also falls kinda flat utility wise since you have so many few spell known and heavy limitation on selection (abjuration/evocation), apart from rare ones such as Leomund's Tiny Hut. And also bears a specific fluff.

Warlock brings a bigger array of spells to choose from, Patron features, and boast great utility when taking the proper Invocations. Also, the associated fluff brims much more "as magical" as the previous ones. So it may be the reason.
Or maybe OP just wanted some particular spells, as early as possible, and Warlock was in the short list in that particular aspect. ^^

Don't see any particular problem in progression though.
Let's say you want to be "starting good" at spellcasting to be more or less as worthy as any other spellcaster for your first half-career: so starting 16.
As an Half-Elf, you can start with STR 10 / DEX 16 / CON 14 / INT 10 / WIS 10 / CHA 16 (or dump STR and INT to 8 and get a starting CON 16, but my personal taste goes against negative modifiers ^^).

Example leveling (not arguing that it's the best -especially spell choice-, but should work well).
1. Fighter (starting proficiencies, very important).
2. Warlock (great damage increase: short rest Hex or Hunger of Hadar + Booming Blade in melee, weapon attack at range).
3. Fighter (decent damage increase: Action Surge)
4. Fighter (Shield, Magic Missile, Find Familiar, other cantrips.)
5. Fighter (ASI: +2 DEX, Protection From Evil and Good).
6. Fighter (Extra Attack).
7. Warlock (2nd short rest slot, another spell known, Invocations: Devil's Sight, "whatever")
8. Warlock (Pact feature: suggested Tome for great utility with related Invocation swapped with "whatever". Also 2nd level spells and slot: Hold Person and Darkness suggested, swapping one 1st level known spell for that).
9. Fighter (ASI: Sharpshooter)
10. Fighter (2nd level spells: Darkness, War Magic)
11. Warlock (ASI: Crossbow Expert, swap Darkness for Mirror Image, learn any other such as Shatter, Misty Step, Suggestion).
12. Fighter (ASI: +2 DEX)
13. Fighter (Indomitable)
14. Fighter (Eldricht Strike)
15. Fighter (3rd Attack)
16. Warlock (3rd level spells: Fly, Fear)
17. Warlock (Patron feature)
18. Warlock (Greater Invisibility).
19. Fighter (ASI)
20. Fighter.

This suggestion was made with the primary objective to "stay an Eldricht Knight" (keeping a relatively similar power up) while bringing key features from Warlock as early and smoothly as possible.
Result? Apart from char level 3 (1 turn/short rest), 4 (essentially utility) and 10 (because War Magic won't be as useful for this build), you get a direct benefit to your sustained damage each and every passing level, alternating between stat bump, feats or offense-enhancing spells up to character level 16.

Compared to a pure Eldricht Knight, you get better (melee) damage at level 2, comparable at level 5, better at level 6, you get a 3rd attack per turn right at the same time although in a different, less flexible way, and get the same number of ASI as Fighter right back at level 12.
Of course, ultimately, you still get your 4th attack much later than the pure class, but in exchange you got right from level 2 onwards a spell to use on regular basis to upgrade your damage, either directly (Hex) or indirectly (Darkness). And Greater Invisibility just one level later.

I see mainly two drawbacks to this leveling: Greater Invisibility comes even later than for pure EK (although much better thanks to short-rest basis), and you never get a chance to grab at least Resilient: Wisdom if you really aim for damage optimization.
There would certainly be better ways to go at it, but too tired to think much more about it (and to be honest, depends too much imo of what OP is mostly interested in the multiclass in the first place).

[JBPuffin]

You don't want too many options...then want to multiclass with warlock...I think there's a disconnect here.

[FaceofBo]

Since there seems to be some confusion, and re-reading through my post I can see the redundancies and double negatives (I apologize, this was a 1 A.M Caffeine fueled idea). What I am looking for is an Archer Fighter with the Improved Familiar, for fluff as well as for the abilities it grants and the usefulness it has. The additional spells from warlock, as well as invocations were something I explored because they would A) improve on some of the weaknesses of my current character (No darkvision, no magic damage, so on) and B) because I felt that they would be good additions to the EK spell list. Many of the spells that keep getting referenced such as Darkness I felt would be a good idea. This is an AL legal character, so the UA Scout and such is out the window, and the reason I didn't select Ranger is because I wanted to move away from the Nature-y based magic of the Ranger, as well as have access to possibly more attacks. Again, because this is an AL character, it is perfectly reasonable that I will eventually hit 14-15 and so on, which is why I was looking for a full lvl 20 build. I am looking for an optimization of this build, not really an optimization of an Archer, which yes, I admit, sounds stupid. I was simply looking for second and third opinions of those more well versed in the Maximization of Effectiveness in D&D to try to steer my choices in the right direction to make sure this character doesn't fall flat.

[CaptainSarathai]

Okay, so what I'm gathering is that you're basically wanting to build a Warlock/EK mix exactly, and are essentially willing to slow your EK progression, extra attacks, etc - in favor of getting Find Familiar, the ability to see/speak through that familiar, sacrifice one of your attacks (from an attack action) to swing with that familiar, and the ability to see through the Darkness spell.

In all honesty, for AL play - I wouldn't do it. This isn't just "not an optimized archer" - this is "not an optimized character"
At the very least, I'd look at trying to make changes. Really, ditch off EK. If you stick EK, you're not an Archer. The only way to optimize that mix is EK7, Warlock2, and focus on throwingAgonizing Blast and following up with a bow-shot from War Magic. Issue:
Agonizing Blast = 1d10+Cha (+d6 w/ Hex) per bolt. You gain bolts as the EK would gain attacks
Fighter with a Bow = 1d8+Dex (+10 w/ Sharp Shooter, 1d10 w/ Crossbow Expert) per shot
You get 4 shots...
This would come online at Level9, going EK/Warlock and EB+WarMagic.
Better yet would be to just drop the EK levels and go Sorcerer, blast off Eldritch Blast and then Quicken it again. This would come online at level 5.

The damage difference is just way too high to take that dive in good conscience, in my opinion. The hard part is that, for what you want, specifically (an Archer with Improved Familiar, and Devil's Sight) you're stuck taking those Warlock levels. Frankly, I'd consider - strongly - taking levels in Rogue. I'd lean Arcane Trickster, or Assassin, honestly. A.Tricksters pull from the Wizard list just like EKs, and Rogues in general benefit a lot more from the kind of Warlock tricks that you're talking about.

The base-line for an Archer class is going to be the Fighter with max dex, Crossbow Expert, and Sharp Shooter. They'll be tossing out:
5th: 2d10+20+6 = 37/74
11th: 3d10+30+15 = 41.5/83
20th: 4d10+40+20 = 82/164, or 328 in 3 rounds

The following is what I could come up with for various ranged damage builds. I didn't get in to Bard, because honestly, I think I've found the best ones here:



16s in Dex and Cha
L1-5, Fighter: Archer Style, Eldritch Knight, Sharp Shooter
Level 5 Attack
+0 to Hit, 2x
1d8+10+3 damage = 35 damage, Action Surge x2 = 70

L6-8, Fighter: ASI Dex, War Magic, ASI Cha
L9-11, Warlock: Hex, Eldritch Blast, Agonizing Blast
Level 11 Attack
+4 to Hit,
3d10+3d6+12 damage = 39 damage (Cast Hex as Bonus R1)
R2 same, plus add
+1 to Hit, 1x
1d8+1d6+10+4 damage = 22 damage
Action Surge for 39 damage

Lvl12, Warlock, Improved Familiar
Lvl13-20, Fighter, ASI Cha, ASI Dex
Level 20 Damage
+5 to Hit, 4x
4d10+4d6+20 damage = 56 damage (Cast Hex as Bonus R1)
R2 same, plus add
+2 to Hit, 1x
1d8+1d6+10+5 damage = 23 damage
Action Surge for 56 damage
Total in 3 rounds = 270 damage
This build focuses on casting Eldritch Blast, and following it up with a bow shot.


VHuman, Alert
13 Dex, 16 Cha

1-2 Warlock
3-5 Sorcerer, Quicken Metamagic
Level 5 Attack
+3 to Hit
2d10+2d6+6 = 24
Quicken = 24

6-7 Fighter
8-10 Rogue, Assassin
11 Sorcerer, ASI Cha
Level 11 Attack
3d10+3d6+12 = 39
Quicken = 39
Action Surge = 39
Auto Crit = 135

12-20 any Sorcerer/Warlock, ASI Cha, then Dex
Level 20 Attack
4d10+4d6+20 = 56
Quicken = 56
Action Surge = 56
Auto Crit = 192

Total 3 Rounds: 192 + 56 + 168 = 416
This variant of the build ditches the focus on archery, and just combines SorcLock EB spam, with Fighter's Action Surge and Assassin's Auto-Crit, to deliver more than double the damage the previous EK Archer build doled out.


VHuman, Alert Feat
16 Dex, 13 Wis, 14 Cha
1-3 Rogue, Assassin
4-5 Ranger, Hunter, Archer Style, Hunter's Mark, Horde Breaker
Level 5 Attack
+5 to Hit
1d8+2d6+1d6+3 = 18 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d8+3 = 7.5
AutoCrit Surprise = 33 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d8+3 = 12

6-9 Ranger, ASI Dex
10 Rogue, Sharpshooter
11 Warlock
Level 11 Attack
+1 to Hit
First Attack: 1d8+1d6+10+4 = 22 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d8+10+4 = 18.5
Second Attack: 1d8+2d6+1d6+10+4 = 29 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d8+10+4 = 18.5
with Autocrits = 74 damage/ +Horde Breaker = 46

12-13 Warlock, Darkness, Devil's Sight
14-20 Rogue, ASI Dex, Crossbow Expert*, ASI any
Level 20 Attack
+2 to Hit
First Attack: 1d8+1d6+10+5 = 23 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Second Attack: 1d8+6d6+1d6+10+5 = 44 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
with Autocrits = 104/ +Horde Breaker = 48

Total in 3 rounds: 104+48 + 67+39 + 67+39 = 238+126

+2 to Hit, pair of Hand Crossbows (Xbow Xpert)
First Attack: 1d6+1d6+10+5 = 22 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d6+10+5 = 18.5
Second Attack: 1d6+6d6+1d6+10+5 = 43 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d6+10+5 = 18.5
with Autocrits = 100/ +Horde Breaker = 44
Bonus Attack: 1d6+1d6+10+5 = 18.5

Total in 3 rounds: 100+44 + 83.5+37 + 83.5+37 = 267+118
This build is unique in the way that it works. Technically, you could do even more damage without the levels of Warlock, or go to 6 levels of Warlock (sacrificing levels of Rogue) to get Dark One's Own Luck and add a d10 to your Initiative Checks.
The idea is that you pop up quickly at the start of combat and lay down a storm of shots (4x by level 11) all with Advantage and all Auto-Crit against slower enemies. Later, you might even go into dual-wielding hand crossbows, decreasing your Horde Breaker damage, but increasing single-target output.


Vhuman, Alert Feat
Dex16, Wis13

1-2 Fighter, Archery Style
3-5 Rogue, Assassin
Level 5 damage
+5 to Hit
1d8+2d6+3 = 14.5/ 29 Action Surge
Auto Crit = 26/ 52 Action Surge

6-8 Fighter, Sharpshooter
9-11, Ranger, Hunter, Horde Breaker
Level 11 Attack
+0 to Hit
First Attack: 1d8+1d6+10+3 = 21/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+3 = 17.5
Second Attack: 1d8+1d6+2d6+10+3 = 28/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+3 = 17.5
Action Surge 1: 1d8+1d6+10+3 = 21/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+3 = 17.5
Action Surge 2: 1d8+1d6+10+3 = 21/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+3 = 17.5
Auto Crit: 130+88

12-13 Fighter, ASI Dex
14 Ranger, ASI Dex
15-17 Fighter
18-20 Rogue, ASI Crossbow Expert*
Level 20 Damage
+2 to Hit
First Attack: 1d8+1d6+10+5 = 23/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Second Attack: 1d8+1d6+10+5 = 23/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Third Attack: 1d8+1d6+3d6+10+5 = 33.5/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Action Surge 1: 1d8+1d6+10+5 = 23/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Action Surge 2: 1d8+1d6+10+5 = 23/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Action Surge 3: 1d8+1d6+10+5 = 23/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Superiority Dice: 5d10 = 27.5
Auto Crit: 207+144 +55


Total in 3 Rounds: 207+144+55 + 79.5+58.5 + 79.5+58.5 = 366+261+55
This build throws out the Warlock levels entirely, and instead grabs 11 levels of any Fighter, although I strongly prefer Battle Master for the extra d8s. You could run Eldritch Knight if you wanted, as there's no real need to boost Intelligence or Wisdom on this build, beyond what's required for Multiclassing.
This build takes the first-turn-burst of the previous build and amps it up to 11. By using a Fighter, we can get 3 attacks, giving us 3 extra shots from Horde Breaker, and all of them auto-critting with Advantage if we go first. Adding Battlemaster lets us add Superiority Dice to that mix, potentially leaving 5 targets Prone on the field with Tripping Attack. An opening salvo from this character can end fights before they even start.

[Citan]

Okay, so what I'm gathering is that you're basically wanting to build a Warlock/EK mix exactly, and are essentially willing to slow your EK progression, extra attacks, etc - in favor of getting Find Familiar, the ability to see/speak through that familiar, sacrifice one of your attacks (from an attack action) to swing with that familiar, and the ability to see through the Darkness spell.

In all honesty, for AL play - I wouldn't do it. This isn't just "not an optimized archer" - this is "not an optimized character"
At the very least, I'd look at trying to make changes. Really, ditch off EK. If you stick EK, you're not an Archer. The only way to optimize that mix is EK7, Warlock2, and focus on throwingAgonizing Blast and following up with a bow-shot from War Magic. Issue:
Agonizing Blast = 1d10+Cha (+d6 w/ Hex) per bolt. You gain bolts as the EK would gain attacks
Fighter with a Bow = 1d8+Dex (+10 w/ Sharp Shooter, 1d10 w/ Crossbow Expert) per shot
You get 4 shots...
This would come online at Level9, going EK/Warlock and EB+WarMagic.
Better yet would be to just drop the EK levels and go Sorcerer, blast off Eldritch Blast and then Quicken it again. This would come online at level 5.

The damage difference is just way too high to take that dive in good conscience, in my opinion. The hard part is that, for what you want, specifically (an Archer with Improved Familiar, and Devil's Sight) you're stuck taking those Warlock levels. Frankly, I'd consider - strongly - taking levels in Rogue. I'd lean Arcane Trickster, or Assassin, honestly. A.Tricksters pull from the Wizard list just like EKs, and Rogues in general benefit a lot more from the kind of Warlock tricks that you're talking about.

The base-line for an Archer class is going to be the Fighter with max dex, Crossbow Expert, and Sharp Shooter. They'll be tossing out:
5th: 2d10+20+6 = 37/74
11th: 3d10+30+15 = 41.5/83
20th: 4d10+40+20 = 82/164, or 328 in 3 rounds

The following is what I could come up with for various ranged damage builds. I didn't get in to Bard, because honestly, I think I've found the best ones here:



16s in Dex and Cha
L1-5, Fighter: Archer Style, Eldritch Knight, Sharp Shooter
Level 5 Attack
+0 to Hit, 2x
1d8+10+3 damage = 35 damage, Action Surge x2 = 70

L6-8, Fighter: ASI Dex, War Magic, ASI Cha
L9-11, Warlock: Hex, Eldritch Blast, Agonizing Blast
Level 11 Attack
+4 to Hit,
3d10+3d6+12 damage = 39 damage (Cast Hex as Bonus R1)
R2 same, plus add
+1 to Hit, 1x
1d8+1d6+10+4 damage = 22 damage
Action Surge for 39 damage

Lvl12, Warlock, Improved Familiar
Lvl13-20, Fighter, ASI Cha, ASI Dex
Level 20 Damage
+5 to Hit, 4x
4d10+4d6+20 damage = 56 damage (Cast Hex as Bonus R1)
R2 same, plus add
+2 to Hit, 1x
1d8+1d6+10+5 damage = 23 damage
Action Surge for 56 damage
Total in 3 rounds = 270 damage
This build focuses on casting Eldritch Blast, and following it up with a bow shot.


VHuman, Alert
13 Dex, 16 Cha

1-2 Warlock
3-5 Sorcerer, Quicken Metamagic
Level 5 Attack
+3 to Hit
2d10+2d6+6 = 24
Quicken = 24

6-7 Fighter
8-10 Rogue, Assassin
11 Sorcerer, ASI Cha
Level 11 Attack
3d10+3d6+12 = 39
Quicken = 39
Action Surge = 39
Auto Crit = 135

12-20 any Sorcerer/Warlock, ASI Cha, then Dex
Level 20 Attack
4d10+4d6+20 = 56
Quicken = 56
Action Surge = 56
Auto Crit = 192

Total 3 Rounds: 192 + 56 + 168 = 416
This variant of the build ditches the focus on archery, and just combines SorcLock EB spam, with Fighter's Action Surge and Assassin's Auto-Crit, to deliver more than double the damage the previous EK Archer build doled out.


VHuman, Alert Feat
16 Dex, 13 Wis, 14 Cha
1-3 Rogue, Assassin
4-5 Ranger, Hunter, Archer Style, Hunter's Mark, Horde Breaker
Level 5 Attack
+5 to Hit
1d8+2d6+1d6+3 = 18 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d8+3 = 7.5
AutoCrit Surprise = 33 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d8+3 = 12

6-9 Ranger, ASI Dex
10 Rogue, Sharpshooter
11 Warlock
Level 11 Attack
+1 to Hit
First Attack: 1d8+1d6+10+4 = 22 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d8+10+4 = 18.5
Second Attack: 1d8+2d6+1d6+10+4 = 29 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d8+10+4 = 18.5
with Autocrits = 74 damage/ +Horde Breaker = 46

12-13 Warlock, Darkness, Devil's Sight
14-20 Rogue, ASI Dex, Crossbow Expert*, ASI any
Level 20 Attack
+2 to Hit
First Attack: 1d8+1d6+10+5 = 23 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Second Attack: 1d8+6d6+1d6+10+5 = 44 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
with Autocrits = 104/ +Horde Breaker = 48

Total in 3 rounds: 104+48 + 67+39 + 67+39 = 238+126

+2 to Hit, pair of Hand Crossbows (Xbow Xpert)
First Attack: 1d6+1d6+10+5 = 22 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d6+10+5 = 18.5
Second Attack: 1d6+6d6+1d6+10+5 = 43 damage/ +Horde Breaker 1d6+10+5 = 18.5
with Autocrits = 100/ +Horde Breaker = 44
Bonus Attack: 1d6+1d6+10+5 = 18.5

Total in 3 rounds: 100+44 + 83.5+37 + 83.5+37 = 267+118
This build is unique in the way that it works. Technically, you could do even more damage without the levels of Warlock, or go to 6 levels of Warlock (sacrificing levels of Rogue) to get Dark One's Own Luck and add a d10 to your Initiative Checks.
The idea is that you pop up quickly at the start of combat and lay down a storm of shots (4x by level 11) all with Advantage and all Auto-Crit against slower enemies. Later, you might even go into dual-wielding hand crossbows, decreasing your Horde Breaker damage, but increasing single-target output.


Vhuman, Alert Feat
Dex16, Wis13

1-2 Fighter, Archery Style
3-5 Rogue, Assassin
Level 5 damage
+5 to Hit
1d8+2d6+3 = 14.5/ 29 Action Surge
Auto Crit = 26/ 52 Action Surge

6-8 Fighter, Sharpshooter
9-11, Ranger, Hunter, Horde Breaker
Level 11 Attack
+0 to Hit
First Attack: 1d8+1d6+10+3 = 21/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+3 = 17.5
Second Attack: 1d8+1d6+2d6+10+3 = 28/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+3 = 17.5
Action Surge 1: 1d8+1d6+10+3 = 21/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+3 = 17.5
Action Surge 2: 1d8+1d6+10+3 = 21/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+3 = 17.5
Auto Crit: 130+88

12-13 Fighter, ASI Dex
14 Ranger, ASI Dex
15-17 Fighter
18-20 Rogue, ASI Crossbow Expert*
Level 20 Damage
+2 to Hit
First Attack: 1d8+1d6+10+5 = 23/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Second Attack: 1d8+1d6+10+5 = 23/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Third Attack: 1d8+1d6+3d6+10+5 = 33.5/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Action Surge 1: 1d8+1d6+10+5 = 23/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Action Surge 2: 1d8+1d6+10+5 = 23/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Action Surge 3: 1d8+1d6+10+5 = 23/ Horde Breaker 1d8+10+5 = 19.5
Superiority Dice: 5d10 = 27.5
Auto Crit: 207+144 +55


Total in 3 Rounds: 207+144+55 + 79.5+58.5 + 79.5+58.5 = 366+261+55
This build throws out the Warlock levels entirely, and instead grabs 11 levels of any Fighter, although I strongly prefer Battle Master for the extra d8s. You could run Eldritch Knight if you wanted, as there's no real need to boost Intelligence or Wisdom on this build, beyond what's required for Multiclassing.
This build takes the first-turn-burst of the previous build and amps it up to 11. By using a Fighter, we can get 3 attacks, giving us 3 extra shots from Horde Breaker, and all of them auto-critting with Advantage if we go first. Adding Battlemaster lets us add Superiority Dice to that mix, potentially leaving 5 targets Prone on the field with Tripping Attack. An opening salvo from this character can end fights before they even start.
While you are providing interesting builds, you are painting the EK/Lock much blacker than it is.
First, you tend to forget that Eldricht Blast does not profit from Archery, self-buffs or party buffs (except Bless) and finding magic weapons.

Second, you don't consider that the ASI you spend on bumping CHA for Eldricht Blast, could be used instead to grab Crossbow Expert or max DEX earlier. So comparing both builds, the weapon archer could get his 4th attack much earlier if he so wanted.
While on that, notice that the weapon fighter with Crossbow Expert could put Hex to even better use: put disadvantage on the Athletics check (you still have to know which of STR or DEX the creature would use though ;)) then Shove prone before unleashing hell on it. Granted, this would work even better with Expertise from a 1-level Rogue dip.
Just go back on my previous post and check my suggested leveling build: as good or better as a plain Eldricht Knight on nearly all levels for most than half-career.

Third, when comparing with Sorcerer, you put aside that Quicken uses Sorcery Points, so saying "it comes online at 5" is not far from being a lie: At level 5, you could do this between 2 times and around 6 times probably (don't want to make the maths now) if you converted all your slots too. Per LONG rest. Not saying that it's bad, just that it's plain unfair to compare a limited tactic to a permanent tactic to say that first comes online earlier so being better.

Fourth, as I demonstrated earlier when analysis the tri-class proposed by Corran, chasing two preys at the same time is most of the time, by itself, an under-optimization.
Very especially for just adding a plain weapon attack as you suggest (at least the tri-class packed some serious punch on the bonus action weapon attack).
As you said first, it's better to focus either on weapon attacks or on Eldricht Blast. Trying to optimize damage around War Magic is a waste of time, at least for ranged builds in AL (with UA it's a different story thanks to "CHA as weapon attack stats" features).


Since there seems to be some confusion, and re-reading through my post I can see the redundancies and double negatives (I apologize, this was a 1 A.M Caffeine fueled idea). What I am looking for is an Archer Fighter with the Improved Familiar, for fluff as well as for the abilities it grants and the usefulness it has. The additional spells from warlock, as well as invocations were something I explored because they would A) improve on some of the weaknesses of my current character (No darkvision, no magic damage, so on) and B) because I felt that they would be good additions to the EK spell list. Many of the spells that keep getting referenced such as Darkness I felt would be a good idea. This is an AL legal character, so the UA Scout and such is out the window, and the reason I didn't select Ranger is because I wanted to move away from the Nature-y based magic of the Ranger, as well as have access to possibly more attacks. Again, because this is an AL character, it is perfectly reasonable that I will eventually hit 14-15 and so on, which is why I was looking for a full lvl 20 build. I am looking for an optimization of this build, not really an optimization of an Archer, which yes, I admit, sounds stupid. I was simply looking for second and third opinions of those more well versed in the Maximization of Effectiveness in D&D to try to steer my choices in the right direction to make sure this character doesn't fall flat.
Nop, it's not stupid. Not at all. You're basically saying "I want to play THIS kind of character, and looking for advice to make the most of it". Which is perfectly reasonable. ;)

Seeing as how your main reason for dual-classing Warlock is the improved familiar and some spells, I'd concur with CaptainSarathai and urge you to make a choice by choosing one of the options below (or write your own instead if none fits your idea ^^).
1. "My character is an archer that happened to make a pact to gain a few nice tricks"
2. "My character is an archer that has been looking for power to change things"
3. "My character is a person that strives for magic power fundamentally"

1 = Max DEX, 14 CHA: you are still a Fighter in core, but you were unsatisfied by your arcane studies so you went and made a pact for the sake of gaining a powerful companion.
>>> Warlock 3 / Fighter 17
>>> Chain and Invocations are the important things here, take only "buff/utility" spells from Warlock because Eldricht Strike will come online too late for you to really use it well, and you don't care about those anyways.

a) Fighter 1 > Warlock 1 > Fighter 6 > Warlock 3 > rest Fighter.
Start as a melee guy thanks to Booming Blade, relying on Eldricht Blast if really melee is not an option and daggers can't reach. When getting Eldricht Knight, pick Find Familiar: fluff-wise you get your familiar, you can swap this spell for another when you get your improved familiar from Warlock.
Reason for getting Warlock that late is to pick Extra Attack early.

b) Another way to go is getting Crossbow Expert (as Variant Human, or by going Fighter 4) to be able to grab the familiar much earlier.
Ex (variant Human, starting 16 DEX, 14 CON, 14 CHA, Crossbow Expert)
Fighter 2 > Warlock 3 > Fighter X.
You will get Extra Attack much later, but Crossbow Expert and advantage from Darkness+Devil's Sight and Familiar+Voice of the Chain Master will vastly compensate. Just beware of not becoming a pain for your party because of badly positioned Darkness.
(Best thing to do: cast on a small object, ask Familiar to carry it. Problem solved).

2 = 18-20 DEX, 16-18 CHA: you use actively your Patron powers to make things turn out like you want them to.
Warlock 3 (Hold Person / Suggestion) or 5 (Fear/Hypnotic Pattern) / rest Fighter

Big difference here is starting 16 CHA, so Half-Elf recommended.
If only Hold Person or Suggestion is interesting for you...
Fighter 2 > Warlock 1 > Fighter 4 (CE) > Warlock 3 > rest Fighter.
If you want 3rd level spells, I'd suggest taking them only after Fighter 10.

Note that this build can be great if you are fine with only having a very few select spells to use on creatures. Otherwise, I'm afraid you will be getting bored or frustrated of not having other spells. In which case you would want more levels in a caster instead, but then why try to optimize weapon attacks in the first place? ;)
If you want more spell selection while keeping 3rd attack, instead of leveling Warlock get some Bard or Sorcerer instead: they both have many always useful low-level spells.

3 = 12-14 DEX (medium armor) or 16 STR (heavy armor), 20 CHA
Chain Warlock 7 / Fighter 2 / (Swashbukcler Rogue 3) / Wild Magic Sorcerer 8

You are a "magical archer" that also uses powerful spells to turn the tide in fights or social interactions. Just focus on maxing CHA.
Grab Devil's Sight, Agonizing Blast, Voice of the Chain Master, Repelling Blast (order suggested).
Grab Greater Invisibility either from Warlock (Fey) or Sorcerer, depending on other things you choose.
Obviously grab Quickened and Heightened metamagics.
Start Fighter to grab Medium/Heavy armor, then Warlock 2 for Agonizing Blast and Devil's Sight, Fighter 2 for Action Surge, Warlock 3 for Darkness and Hold Person, then Wild Magic Sorcerer straight to at least 6 (3rd level spells, decent max SP pool, Bend Luck, metamagics) then whatever you want. Obviously don't wield a weapon (you just don't care about it), wield a shield instead, learn Shocking Grasp to cover melee threats. Further optimization? Grab Warcaster and Crossbow Expert to improve your damage (you can use Eldricht Blast with it as long as you target only the creature provoking OA), facilitate casting and improve concentration.
By character level 8, you can do a nova round Eldricht Blast + Action Surge Eldricht Blast + Quickened Eldricht Blast (or, replace one by Darkness or Hold Person to get advantage).
Considering the need for max CHA and the strong opportunity provided by feats, I'd say going Variant Human to grab Crossbow Expert from the get go would be a good option.
Half-Elf is still better is you want versatility (extra skills, languages, advantage against Charm etc).

As for why not going plain Warlock 10 / Fighter 10 here? Because Eldricht Strike would come far too late, and you can replicate its effect when you really need too with Heightened and Bend Luck (which stack) anyways. And apart from ASI, most of the Fighter levels would be dead weight for you compared to all the things Sorcerer bring.
As for Swashbuckler, I put it as a suggestion in case you want to become the prime debuffer (so need for high DEX to start first) or just want some extra mobility/sneakiness (Cunning Action) / "shoviness" (Expertise in Athletics, but then you would need Shield Master also or "waste" an action on Attack to Shove).

[FaceofBo]

1 = Max DEX, 14 CHA: you are still a Fighter in core, but you were unsatisfied by your arcane studies so you went and made a pact for the sake of gaining a powerful companion.
>>> Warlock 3 / Fighter 17
>>> Chain and Invocations are the important things here, take only "buff/utility" spells from Warlock because Eldricht Strike will come online too late for you to really use it well, and you don't care about those anyways.

a) Fighter 1 > Warlock 1 > Fighter 6 > Warlock 3 > rest Fighter.
Start as a melee guy thanks to Booming Blade, relying on Eldricht Blast if really melee is not an option and daggers can't reach. When getting Eldricht Knight, pick Find Familiar: fluff-wise you get your familiar, you can swap this spell for another when you get your improved familiar from Warlock.
Reason for getting Warlock that late is to pick Extra Attack early.

b) Another way to go is getting Crossbow Expert (as Variant Human, or by going Fighter 4) to be able to grab the familiar much earlier.
Ex (variant Human, starting 16 DEX, 14 CON, 14 CHA, Crossbow Expert)
Fighter 2 > Warlock 3 > Fighter X.
You will get Extra Attack much later, but Crossbow Expert and advantage from Darkness+Devil's Sight and Familiar+Voice of the Chain Master will vastly compensate. Just beware of not becoming a pain for your party because of badly positioned Darkness.
(Best thing to do: cast on a small object, ask Familiar to carry it. Problem solved).


Citan, this here seems to be almost exactly what I was looking for, thank you. I really admire how much thought you put into each of these builds you suggested, thank you. 1 Question I have, what I currently have is an Air Genasi, which gets me the +2 con +1 dex so my stats are 8 16 15 12 10 14, so probably not optimal, but the addition of a free Levitate, especially at early levels, is incredibly useful. Would you suggest switching this out for Crossbow Expert and then just grabbing Levitate at later levels? I'm still below level 4 so I can technically re-build this characters as many times as I want, and I pick Air Genasi 'cause it looked fun and Levitate at level 1 is always nice.

[Citan]

Citan, this here seems to be almost exactly what I was looking for, thank you. I really admire how much thought you put into each of these builds you suggested, thank you. 1 Question I have, what I currently have is an Air Genasi, which gets me the +2 con +1 dex so my stats are 8 16 15 12 10 14, so probably not optimal, but the addition of a free Levitate, especially at early levels, is incredibly useful. Would you suggest switching this out for Crossbow Expert and then just grabbing Levitate at later levels? I'm still below level 4 so I can technically re-build this characters as many times as I want, and I pick Air Genasi 'cause it looked fun and Levitate at level 1 is always nice.
My answer would be probably yes from a pure damage efficiency point of view, but for you especially I'm not sure.

It seems you know how to use Levitate to great efficiency, and Air Genasi seems to fit your character concept in the first place.
So, while it's not the most efficient decision in theory, if you usually use Levitate to disable a strong melee opponent it's a worthwhile trade. Or at least it would be, if not for the harsh limitation of it being 1/long rest. Even in best situations, it's still "only" disabling an enemy's move (so melee reach) for up to 1mn in the day (and melee warriors usually have a backup ranged attack, even if weak). Comparing that to one additional attack every other turn all day long cannot end well for Levitate from a pure efficiency point of view.

Furthermore, I'm not sure you would find it as useful at later levels: the only other way to grab Levitate for your build would be as an EK's 8th level "any-school" spell and by that time I'm sure you'll have other things you want to do (beginning with Darkness+Devil's Sight combo).

So, I'd make a half-baked advice: best solution to compromise would be to ask your DM if he would agree to add Levitate on Warlock's spell list.
That way, it creates an opportunity cost (because it "takes the place" of another spell and you have several 2nd level you could want: Darkness, Mirror Image, Misty Step, Suggestion for example) so it's not like the DM is just giving you a freebie; but if you go Warlock early enough you can still get it while it's really useful. And that way you can happily reincarnate into a Variant Human and pick Crossbow Expert.
It's really not like it would break anything, so unless you are in an AL game with very strict DM, I don't see any reason for him to refuse.

Just remember that, since you apparently don't care about going higher than Warlock level 3, your known spells will be the definitive ones for the remaining of your character's life. So choose well (OR: grab a 4th level later in your progression to get an ASI and swap one spell in addition to learning another, can be a decent choice too). :)

Otherwise you'll have to make a tough choice between concept (Levitate) and optimization (Crossbow Expert), and that is yours alone to make. Just consider some factors to take into account.
- Party size: small party = optimization first. Large (5+) = character first (schematically).
- Party composition: Cleric with usually Bless active, you included? You can go Genasi because you can afford to wait a bit more to get DEX bumps.
- Levitate efficiency: if your group is mainly composed of frail people who fear being melee threatened but have great ranged attacks, it can be a great tactic: prevent a powerful melee attacker to reach party AND deprive him of all cover by elevating it above everyone. If, on the contrary, your group is balanced or more melee-geared, it could be counter-productive (especially when you can learn Hold Person and -much later- cast it with great chance of success).

Good luck and have fun!

[FaceofBo]

- Levitate efficiency: if your group is mainly composed of frail people who fear being melee threatened but have great ranged attacks, it can be a great tactic: prevent a powerful melee attacker to reach party AND deprive him of all cover by elevating it above everyone. If, on the contrary, your group is balanced or more melee-geared, it could be counter-productive (especially when you can learn Hold Person and -much later- cast it with great chance of success).

Good luck and have fun!

I think you may have mis-understood me Citan, Air Genasi can cast Levitate on themselves, not other people, so I guess its ineffective as a CC, but more effective as an escape/positioning tool.

[Citan]

I think you may have mis-understood me Citan, Air Genasi can cast Levitate on themselves, not other people, so I guess its ineffective as a CC, but more effective as an escape/positioning tool.
AAaaah.
Hmm, well then, unless you plan on never grabbing Sharpshooter (but why would you make such as decision in the first place?) I guess the balance just definitely shifted in favor of rebuilding as Variant Human...
If you are really afraid of lacking mobility, just pick Expeditious Retreat when you get the Eldricht Knight archetype as your free-school spell. Getting Dash as bonus action should make good positioning much easier. It lacks the "vertical dimension" of Levitate, but at the same time it's actually safer.

Because even if you can "move up or down as part of your move" in addition to the 20 feet (meaning you could go up, shoot, then back down) it also means you deprive yourself of any cover while doing so. So as soon as DM makes you fight groups with a minimal intelligence, enemy archers will ready their arrows to shoot as soon as you get in the air. And since you need to grasp something to move laterally, it actually narrows down your options (not including any pesky enemy caster that would push/pull you to deprive you of any lateral movement).

While moving on ground allows you to zigzag or permanently use walls/friends as cover. And once you get Sharpshooter, the Levitate tactic will lose most of its potency (since only total cover will matter, and it's not often that total cover don't include ceiling ;)).