Giving PC's plenty of treasure, but limiting usability by lvl

[Arael666]

Well, pretty much what the title says, but let me elaborate a bit more.

I'm lazy. I don't like keeping track of treasure, and I also don't think this should be part of a DM's job. So, my idea to help my laziness, and let me channel my productive side on more substantial tasks (like world building and story writing), is to sau "screw it", here's a bunch o treasure.

Now, with that comes the problem of very powerful PC's, because they now can buy that sweet +10 weapon, +10 armor and a hell lot of other expensive items. So, why not limit it by level? It wont matter that you can afford a +10 weapon at lvl 2 if you can't wield it until you're lvl 18 or so.

I have come up with a few ideas how the items would be limited, mostly by following guidelines already printed (like the vow of poverty and spells like magic weapon, greater), but I have been having a tough time in limiting things that have no numerical value (like immunities, action economy, flight, etc..)

So, playground, is this viable? Has anyone tried this before? Is this idea not one bit original and there are several tables in this forum with precisely what I want to do?

[legomaster00156]

The game already does this... by using Wealth by Level guidelines. :smallconfused:

[heavyfuel]

I imagine deciding what weapon, armour, each single wondrous item, scroll, and artefact they can use at what level is more work than keeping track of how much money they have, especially considering that keeping track of their money is pretty easy.

Additionally, there are plenty of things they can do with a lot of money that doesn't involve expensive magic items.

If they can afford a +10 weapon at level 2, the Wizard can also afford all the scrolls for his spell book. They can get +1 Bane weapons for basically all creature types. Bags of Holding full of Alchemist Fire as soon as you allow them to use Bags of Holdings. Paying for spell services which aren't items. Getting a high level Wizard to cast Wish and improve all your ability scores is the most obvious, but lower level casters can still cast very powerful spells to help them.

[The_Jette]

Also, to play Devil's Advocate, the party members can say "I have 200,000gp?! My character retires to a life of luxury."

Game over, man...

[Felyndiira]

My Saturday group used to do something like this. Due to our playing style (we often became merchants or indulged in lobbying for profit, and would regularly spend it on personal vanity projects), our GM lifted WBL caps and let us earn as money as we can plausibly earn via roleplay.

In exchange, we had a system where we are not allowed to equip more than our WBL in items at the same time. We can keep hoards of magic items and money if we find a good way to earn/keep it, but even if we managed to acquire it, we just can't wear that +10 weapon until we actually get to that WBL. There was a discount on crafted items for this purpose to make crafting feats worth it, and consumables are not counted provided that we don't abuse this too much. It worked pretty well for the group in general.

[ChaosShadow00x]

Could limit the number of magical items usable by making the PC's have to attune to them. Process could take only a short while, an hour or less.

This way, players could have a massive array of magical items, but have to actively choose which they will use.

Just a simple thought that comes into my head, but base it on level depending on how many you want them to have at any given moment.

1 magical item attuned per level. Particularly powerful items could consume multiple attunements. Would be relatively easy to have the number of attunements required scale as well, just base it on the item value VS their wealth. Like... An item worth 2,000 gold at level 3 (Valued at 3k gold) would consume 2 of their 3 attunements, but at level 4 (valued at 6k gold) it would only consume ~1.3. Just think of it as a resource really.

Equation: Attunement cost = Level ÷ (Wealth ÷ Item Value)

Or if you want less, 0.5 per leve (1 per 2)l, or 0.67 every level (2 per 3)

Just ideas...

EDIT:

... Just thought of an easier way to think of it... Just set their max attunement to their wealth, and start subtracting the item values =P

Use a multiplier if you want them to have more, or less magical items at their level.

[Hackulator]

This seems like more work than necessary.

Give your characters items. Don't worry about it too much. If they seem to be power creeping past where you want them, slow down the rate at which you give them items. WBL tables are just a guideline.

[Jay R]

You're doing this the hard way. If the players are at level X, then take WBL(X+1) - WBL(X). Divide that by how many adventures you expect to spend at level X. Give out that much per adventure.


Also, to play Devil's Advocate, the party members can say "I have 200,000gp?! My character retires to a life of luxury."

Game over, man...

No problem. Or at least, no new problem. At any time, any player can have his character say, "I'm retiring from this dangerous life," whether she has money or not. It's just an in-character way to say, "I'm quitting this game." If they don't want to play, they won't, regardless of how much fake money their fake character has.

[Arael666]

I imagine deciding what weapon, armour, each single wondrous item, scroll, and artefact they can use at what level is more work than keeping track of how much money they have, especially considering that keeping track of their money is pretty easy.

Additionally, there are plenty of things they can do with a lot of money that doesn't involve expensive magic items.

If they can afford a +10 weapon at level 2, the Wizard can also afford all the scrolls for his spell book. They can get +1 Bane weapons for basically all creature types. Bags of Holding full of Alchemist Fire as soon as you allow them to use Bags of Holdings. Paying for spell services which aren't items. Getting a high level Wizard to cast Wish and improve all your ability scores is the most obvious, but lower level casters can still cast very powerful spells to help them.

Oh, inherent bonuses are already on that list: +1 can be taken/bought at lvl 3. Every 4 lvl after the 3rd they can take another +1, with +5 at 19th lvl. Also, them having various bane items is a plus to me, because it's a buff for the melee oriented build (of course, that also means casters can have an array of pearls of power)


My Saturday group used to do something like this. Due to our playing style (we often became merchants or indulged in lobbying for profit, and would regularly spend it on personal vanity projects), our GM lifted WBL caps and let us earn as money as we can plausibly earn via roleplay.

In exchange, we had a system where we are not allowed to equip more than our WBL in items at the same time. We can keep hoards of magic items and money if we find a good way to earn/keep it, but even if we managed to acquire it, we just can't wear that +10 weapon until we actually get to that WBL. There was a discount on crafted items for this purpose to make crafting feats worth it, and consumables are not counted provided that we don't abuse this too much. It worked pretty well for the group in general.

That is actually so much more easy and simple than what I've been thinking. Thank you very much, you've just solved my problem!

[The Insanity]

We separated in-character money from WBL.

[heavyfuel]

Oh, inherent bonuses are already on that list: +1 can be taken/bought at lvl 3. Every 4 lvl after the 3rd they can take another +1, with +5 at 19th lvl. Also, them having various bane items is a plus to me, because it's a buff for the melee oriented build (of course, that also means casters can have an array of pearls of power)

So, you're fine with martials getting +1 to hit and +8 damage cuz it buffs them, but you're also fine with wizards having double their normal spell slots? You're like, the most generous DM ever

And Inherent bonuses are only part of the problem. Chaos Shuffling is also a very important thing to consider. I'm sure there are other things high level NPCs can do for money, I'm just too tired to think.


We separated in-character money from WBL.

What do you mean by that?

[The Insanity]

What do you mean by that?
Players get separate "virtual money", their WBL, to buy magic items. They can't use in-character money to buy magic items.

[heavyfuel]

Players get separate "virtual money", their WBL, to buy magic items. They can't use in-character money to buy magic items.

I'm still not sure I understand.

You can't use GP to buy items in your world? Only this Virtual Money?

You can use GP for everything else, though (

[Nupo]

I don't follow Wealth by Level guidelines. I DM'ed for over 20 years without them, and kind of developed an intuitive ability to keep things appropriate. One thing I've always done is limit availability of items for sale. Just because a character has 50,000 gp doesn't mean they can find a +5 Ring of Protection to spend that money on. They can go to a sage and seek information on where to find one, which might even lead to a quest. In my campaign potions, especially healing potions, are usually fairly available, but more powerful items are really hit and miss. With characters that can craft their own items I sometimes even limit availability of raw materials.

I've found this to be an easier way to keep a handle on things. At least it has been for me.

[Nifft]

I've run mid-level games where I literally just rolled random treasure, and also taking away gear when a PC gets captured.

Five levels after starting to do this, I found that one PC had personal wealth +50% over the WBL guideline, and the other four PCs had gear almost in line with WBL (above or below by less than 10%).

The random tables can work pretty well.

I'd suggest the lazy approach would be to check up on their WBL once per level, and if they're too far over, then send someone to wreck their stuff (Bebeliths / Ethereal Filchers / Oozes / Half-Fiend Half-Dragon Half-Fey Half-Farspawn Phrenic Rust Monster Swarms of Legend, etc.).

[Goaty14]

I'm pretty sure UA has some sort of table for what can be crafted at each level instead of WBL.

I'm too lazy to check it out though.

[Arael666]

So, you're fine with martials getting +1 to hit and +8 damage cuz it buffs them, but you're also fine with wizards having double their normal spell slots? You're like, the most generous DM ever

And Inherent bonuses are only part of the problem. Chaos Shuffling is also a very important thing to consider. I'm sure there are other things high level NPCs can do for money, I'm just too tired to think.

Actually, martials getting a buff is what I'm ok with, the part inside the parentheses was meant to convey that if I allow martials to have that I would have to allow casters to have a bonus too, since it follows the logic of my rulling, but I'm not ok with buffing casters (they do not need a buff).

Chaos shuffling is another problem I would have, but since I will now follow Felyndiira's group rulling it won't be an issua, I just rule that the "cost" will be incorporated in the total amount "equipable".