Optimize my Swashbuckler 3.5 (NOT PF)

[logic_error]

I know that a Swashbuckler is a sub-optimal class and all especially if you have no access to the Complete Scoundrel. But Still, can you help me optimise a level 9 character with at least three STARTING levels of swashbuckler? The character concept is quite simple: NO spellcasting

Books allowed: Core + Expanded Psionic + Complete: Warrior, Adventurer, Arcane, Divine, Psionic + PHB2 + Eberron books: ECS, MoE, FoW, FN, PGE, .

Suggest weapons, feats, class dips and PrCs and skills if possible! Tactics against Undead are also welcome :). Maximum character level : 10.

Stats: Half Elf 15(Str) 16(Dex) 15(Con) 15(Int) 5(Wis) 15(Cha)

Thanks in advance!

[ATHATH]

Take the Daring Outlaw feat. 'Nuff said.

[Gildedragon]

Swash 3, Fact 5, Uncan Trick 1

Int to Damage x 2
Int to Attack
Int to initiative
Int to AC

Wait no dungeonscape hmmm
Sorry no idea; rogue prolly.

[Waker]

Are you set on Half-Elf as your race? If you go Human, you could go Swashbuckler 6/Dervish 3. Go with a kukri or scimitar for the weapon.

[logic_error]

Guys please check the books allowed. can't take daring outlaw. Can't take Factorum. Also, yes, Humans are out :(.

[Hackulator]

Guys please check the books allowed. can't take daring outlaw. Can't take Factorum. Also, yes, Humans are out :(.

It sounds like you have a high chance of sucking?

Just make an entertaining character and don't worry about optimization.

I assume no spellcasting means no psionics?

[Karl Aegis]

I can't in good conscious give someone with five wisdom a good build. The only thing that springs to mind is Swashbuckler 3/ Knight 3 / Ninja 4 just to shore up that will save, but it probably isn't enough.

[logic_error]

It sounds like you have a high chance of sucking?

Just make an entertaining character and don't worry about optimization.

I assume no spellcasting means no psionics?

Yep, no psionics. Suck is pretty much guaranteed at this build except that the others are a Ranger and Fighter. So something relatively good can come out I think. The rogue entry might be good. But still, needs optimisation :P.

[Gildedragon]

What do you want to do with the Swasher? Or why is Swash 3 fixed in place?

[logic_error]

What do you want to do with the Swasher? Or why is Swash 3 fixed in place?

Let's just say that this was a character choice and now the player has to live with it. What is to be done with it? Well, I guess a nimble fighter/skill monkey might be great if someone knows how to build it :).

[Hackulator]

Ok here is what you do. I jsut came up with a brilliant plan.

Take 3 levels of Swashbuckler to get insightful strike. Note that insightful strike is not limited to melee. Stack Intelligence and dex.


Take 2 levels of fighter cause you need the feats.

Take five levels of master thrower. Take Palm Throw, Two With One Blow, and Weak Spot. Throw two daggers per attack, each of which hits 2 people. Weak spot makes your attacks touch attacks. You lose strength to damage but you don't care about that, you have no strength, you still get INT to damage, do insane throwing damage, make everyone hate you cause you roll 9000 attacks per round.

[logic_error]

Ok here is what you do. I jsut came up with a brilliant plan.

Take 3 levels of Swashbuckler to get insightful strike. Note that insightful strike is not limited to melee. Stack Intelligence and dex.


Take 2 levels of fighter cause you need the feats.

Take five levels of master thrower. Take Palm Throw, Two With One Blow, and Weak Spot. Throw two daggers per attack, each of which hits 2 people. Weak spot makes your attacks touch attacks. You lose strength to damage but you don't care about that, you have no strength, you still get INT to damage, do insane throwing damage, make everyone hate you cause you roll 9000 attacks per round.

Fantastic! Good idea.

[Hackulator]

Fantastic! Good idea.

Actually you use shuriken because they count as ammo so you could theoretically afford piles of enchanted ones to throw. You only need +1 enhancement once you have level 5 in master thrower, so you give them flaming cold shocking for 3d6 extra damage per hit which can exceed 60d6 extra damage per round on a high level master thrower.

[logic_error]

Actually you use shuriken because they count as ammo so you could theoretically afford piles of enchanted ones to throw. You only need +1 enhancement once you have level 5 in master thrower, so you give them flaming cold shocking for 3d6 extra damage per hit which can exceed 60d6 extra damage per round on a high level master thrower.

Yeah. And with a Boomrang and Eberron feats this would become a whirling throw of death that one hits everyone present.

[Hackulator]

Yeah. And with a Boomrang and Eberron feats this would become a whirling throw of death that one hits everyone present.

Please note, there is a high chance of people hating you with this build.

Also pretty sure boomerang doesn't help because return throw is a standard action.

What Eberron feats?

[logic_error]

Please note, there is a high chance of people hating you with this build.

Also pretty sure boomerang doesn't help because return throw is a standard action.

What Eberron feats?

Boomerang daze and Boomerang ricochet.

[Hackulator]

Boomerang daze and Boomerang ricochet.

Yeah pretty sure no sane DM will rule that a boomerang counts as a small throwing weapon for palm throw.

[logic_error]

Yeah pretty sure no sane DM will rule that a boomerang counts as a small throwing weapon for palm throw.

Unless it is a Halfling boomerang ;).

[AnimeTheCat]

Actually you use shuriken because they count as ammo so you could theoretically afford piles of enchanted ones to throw. You only need +1 enhancement once you have level 5 in master thrower, so you give them flaming cold shocking for 3d6 extra damage per hit which can exceed 60d6 extra damage per round on a high level master thrower.

i think it has to be a weapon you can apply weapon finesse to or a light weapon, which shuriken don't fit in to either category.

[Hackulator]

i think it has to be a weapon you can apply weapon finesse to or a light weapon, which shuriken don't fit in to either category.

From http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Shuriken

Shuriken (5)
Exotic Light Thrown Ammunition
Critical: ×2
Range Increment: 10 ft.
Type: Piercing
Hardness: 10

[RedMage125]

If you're this limited, I'm assuming a fairly low-op game?

In a game where you don't need to worry about optimized enemies, Swashbuckler/Duelist could be fun. No Daring Outlaw means that you won't be able to get virtual Rogue levels for Sneak Attack out of your swashbuckler levels, but since PHB2 is allowed, you could take Deadly Defense.

When Fighting defensively, you'll get your Duelist level and your INT mod (up to your duelist level) added to your DEX mod to AC and get an additional +1d6 damage.

A Shwashbuckler6/Rogue4/Duelist10 build is fairly low-op, and can, using only magic items from the DMG, have an AC in the 70s or 80s (8 points higher against AoOs). Which, in a low-op game, a high AC is actually a significant advantage. That build is still decent without Daring Outlaw, but you're missing out on one extra point of Graceful Dodge and an extra 3d6 Sneak Attack.

[DEMON]

Let's just say that this was a character choice and now the player has to live with it. What is to be done with it? Well, I guess a nimble fighter/skill monkey might be great if someone knows how to build it :).

Swb 3 / Ftr 2 / Dervish 5 should fit that bill.

Feats to qualify for the PrC: Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, WF: Scimitar (or 2-handed slashing weapon)
Other feats to consider: 2WF, I2WF, Elusive Target, Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike

Take the Swashbuckler ACF from PHB2, if you go the 2WF route.

[Eldariel]

Swb 3 / Ftr 2 / Dervish 5 should fit that bill.

Feats to qualify for the PrC: Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, WF: Scimitar (or 2-handed slashing weapon)
Other feats to consider: 2WF, I2WF, Elusive Target, Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike

Take the Swashbuckler ACF from PHB2, if you go the 2WF route.

This looks decent, but I'd go Swash 3/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 5 and then enter Dervish. Could also go Swash 3/Fig 2/Derv 3/RB ->. This puts Legendary Force some levels away but opens up reliable full attacks with Dervish. Alos easier on skills.

RB opens up double scimitar PA and then full attacks from Dervish. Some Elven race would be nice but you can swing Half-Elf. Could also consider Ranger 2/Swash 3 for extra skill points at the cost of a feat. But ya, Revenant Blade at least does damage. No RotW sucks but you can make do without Champion of Corellon 2. Itemize swift action movement until Dervish.

[DEMON]

This looks decent, but I'd go Swash 3/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 5 and then enter Dervish. Could also go Swash 3/Fig 2/Derv 3/RB ->. This puts Legendary Force some levels away but opens up reliable full attacks with Dervish. Alos easier on skills.

RB opens up double scimitar PA and then full attacks from Dervish. Some Elven race would be nice but you can swing Half-Elf. Could also consider Ranger 2/Swash 3 for extra skill points at the cost of a feat. But ya, Revenant Blade at least does damage. No RotW sucks but you can make do without Champion of Corellon 2. Itemize swift action movement until Dervish.

Alas, we'll have to choose between RB and Dervish.

The OP has limited the build to level 10. So there would be no way to squeeze in both Dervish and RB levels and still get legendary force.
Even getting enough feats to qualify for both PrCs by level 8 (they need 7 in total for prereqs and only share one), might be a challenge. Ancestral Guidance Might help with Darvish prereq, if you start with the RB, but going just 2 levels of Dervish seems pointless.

Also, I believe Swash 3 / Fighter 2 doesn't have the necessary skills to qualify for RB, so Ranger 2 / Swash 3 would be the way to go.

[AnimeTheCat]

From http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Shuriken

Shuriken (5)
Exotic Light Thrown Ammunition
Critical: ×2
Range Increment: 10 ft.
Type: Piercing
Hardness: 10

I strongly urge against using dandwiki as it is not a reliable source. For instance, the entry on the d20srd website lists it as a ranged weapon, not a light weapon and therefore not applicable for weapon finesse.


Swb 3 / Ftr 2 / Dervish 5 should fit that bill.

Feats to qualify for the PrC: Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, WF: Scimitar (or 2-handed slashing weapon)
Other feats to consider: 2WF, I2WF, Elusive Target, Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike

Take the Swashbuckler ACF from PHB2, if you go the 2WF route.

does the dervish class ability that changes scimitars to light weapons allow the user to get insightful strikes from them?

[DEMON]

does the dervish class ability that changes scimitars to light weapons allow the user to get insightful strikes from them?

Indeed :smalltongue:

[Eldariel]

Sadly insightful strikes is precision damage and undead are immune though. But yeah, I recommend RB then. It's not terrible even if it's kind of a waste of Swashb levels.

[AnimeTheCat]

For the undead, go van helsing on them. Bring holy water and wafers and a crossbow that shoots holy water injector darts or get friendly with the nearby temple and have your weapons anointed in holy oil. On the note of holy wafers, I forgot what book it was in (Maybe complete divine so maybe available to you) but it allowed you to change a Potion of cure light wounds to a Wafer of cure light wounds. Those were used at length by my inquisitor style character to root out the undead evil lurking in a nearby town.

EDIT: If you have the feats, pick up quick draw and have vials of holy water in flasks all over your body and throw 2+ vials of holy water each round that you're not dervishing!

[DEMON]

Sadly insightful strikes is precision damage and undead are immune though. But yeah, I recommend RB then. It's not terrible even if it's kind of a waste of Swashb levels.

Yeah, those Swashy levels are basically useless at that point. Although I admit I'm not 100% clear on the Legendary Force ability. Would you still treat your off hand part of the double-scimitar as a light weapon (as well as 2handed)? Then it would allow for Insightful Strike.

[logic_error]

Thank you, everyone! I think the best bet here is the master thrower. That build actually benefits from Swash 3 due to the insightful strike. It has a *tremendous* synergy with boomerangs in Eberron. Combined with daze effects, even two *returning* boomerangs, heck, even *one*, would devastate the enemy party due to the ridiculous damage potential of the attack. Overall, a very practical within rules build.