How to balance Barbarian?

[Davval]

So. In one of the adventuring groups im a part of I am playing a Dwarf Barbarian. And we are currently lvl 2 after 2 sessions.

The problem is that I am fairly tanky, 25hp 15ac and I hit like a TRUCK. Littlerly... I have one hitted multiple monsters we faced and my DM think that im too overpowered. Because when I roll the d12 for great axe dmg I get to add 6 addittional dmg from the rage dmg and my str modifyer (I also have resistance against almost all types of dmg at lvl 3).

DM wants to reduce the amount of rages I have per day to 1. But the rage ability is the main thing about Barbarian. One thing that could balance it out would be too have lots of encounters but DM wants too have more social interaction than battle and therefore we have about 1-2 encounters per day. I dont want him to nerf me too much but still I dont want to be overpowered either. What should we do?

[Rysto]

Which edition are we talking here? 5e?

[Koo Rehtorb]

After two sessions neither of you have any idea what you're doing. Don't house rule the game until you have a very solid understanding of the mechanics.

[Davval]

Yeah! 5e. Sorry! Should have made that clear... :)

[Lance Tankmen]

Uh sounds like he plans to balance it? 1-2 encounter a day that's when you shine but social stuff you should flail at any attempt.

[jaappleton]

Tell your DM to come to this forum. We need to chat.

---

Hello. I'm John. I played a Barbarian for quite awhile. My first 5E character. Since, I've played Wizards, Fighters, Clerics, and a bunch of other things. Each class has a specific purpose in mind. Barbarians are designed, from the beginning, to be a force of reckoning in combat. They really are. And there's tons of ways to counter that, just like there's tons of ways to counter the things spellcasters can do.

I implore you: Do not punish a characters strengths. Let them shine. Punishing what a character can do is the worst thing you can do. The player characters are heroes. They're supposed to do cool, awesome &$@#. Yes, your job is to challenge them. Occasionally, your job is to slap them down to earth when they get too cocky for their own good.

But don't punish them for excelling at something. The worst thing you can do is discourage them from being awesome.

If you want help countering what your players can do, ask. And we will help.

Remember, be fair. It's you and the players together. Not you VS them. There's a huge difference.

[coolAlias]

If your DM is going to run a combat-lite game, suggest to them that they use the slower resting mechanics as suggested in the DMG.

This way the balance of the game will be retained without sacrificing much, if any, of the narrative, and you won't have to mess with trying to tweak class abilities.

[Desteplo]

Tell him to give creatures more health. Of course you one shot every goblin. If their are 10 goblins that won't change much except they should deal tons of damage back but still die easy

-but if he gives you guys a boss monster each fight than it's sticky. It will last the whole fight and giving the small guys a bigger impact

-don't nerf or buff what you don't understand

-tell him to look at the encounter charts (which work for newer DMs as a guideline) and match the CR of the creature to the party or higher (since only 2 fights per day)

[mgshamster]

He just happens to be running the game exactly to the strengths of the barbarian, and then complains that the barb is over powered.

Tell him not to adjust the barbarian, but rather adjust the adventure so it's not perfectly suited to the barbarian. More encounters, more social interactions, combats that use tactics not advantageous to the barb, etc...

If the barb can't melee attack for one round, rage ends. So add in opponents at range and he loses his rage when he can't reach them.

[Trampaige]

So. In one of the adventuring groups im a part of I am playing a Dwarf Barbarian. And we are currently lvl 2 after 2 sessions.

The problem is that I am fairly tanky, 25hp 15ac and I hit like a TRUCK. Littlerly... I have one hitted multiple monsters we faced and my DM think that im too overpowered. Because when I roll the d12 for great axe dmg I get to add 6 addittional dmg from the rage dmg and my str modifyer (I also have resistance against almost all types of dmg at lvl 3).

DM wants to reduce the amount of rages I have per day to 1. But the rage ability is the main thing about Barbarian. One thing that could balance it out would be too have lots of encounters but DM wants too have more social interaction than battle and therefore we have about 1-2 encounters per day. I dont want him to nerf me too much but still I dont want to be overpowered either. What should we do?

Your DM has no clue about a new system that he has just begun running.

When you have only 1-2 encounters per day, casters can go full nova. Of which they will have twice as many spell slots at lvl3.

Paladins can smite almost every round.

Warlocks cry because of short rest mechanics.

Eldritch knights can shield almost any attack that hits them, and have a familiar for scouting and exploration.

You are in a social campaign. I don't imagine your barbarian is full of grace, wit, wisdom, and going to be doing an awful lot in most social situations besides shutting up and letting other party members shine.

[Trampaige]

If the barb can't melee attack for one round, rage ends. So add in opponents at range and he loses his rage when he can't reach them.

All you have to do is make any type of attack against a hostile to maintain your rage, or take an arrow to the knee because damage taken sustains rage, too.

So throw one of your sling bullets or a javelin at somebody.

[coolAlias]

All you have to do is make any type of attack against a hostile to maintain your rage, or take an arrow to the knee because damage taken sustains rage, too.

So throw one of your sling bullets or a javelin at somebody.
IIRC, you have to actually inflict (or receive) damage, not just make an attack, so if you miss and the enemies all miss, no more rage.

[nickl_2000]

All you have to do is make any type of attack against a hostile to maintain your rage, or take an arrow to the knee because damage taken sustains rage, too.

So throw one of your sling bullets or a javelin at somebody.

or just stab yourself in the arm with a dagger using your dex bonus

[Hrdven]

Role playing is not all about combat. Your barbarian hits like a truck, but he is also smart as a truck. Instead of limiting you in combat power, your master should push the other players to role play more and put them in more heterogeneous situations.

[Rysto]

IIRC, you have to actually inflict (or receive) damage, not just make an attack, so if you miss and the enemies all miss, no more rage.

Incorrect. You only have to make an attack. A miss is fine. But if you are attacked, it doesn't sustain your rage unless you are hit for damage.

[coolAlias]

Incorrect. You only have to make an attack. A miss is fine. But if you are attacked, it doesn't sustain your rage unless you are hit for damage.
Good to know, thanks!

[N810]

Well it is lvl 2 enemies should be easy.
bet yea stuff will get harder soon enough.
as you face more encounters per day,
without a rest.


ps. rysto is correct.

[Reflux]

Hi John! I'm Anton, the DM of the adventuring party.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not trying to remove his strength. I just think that the rage mechanic is a little pointless if he can rage all the time, then it might as well have been a passive ability, right? I want to decrease the amount of rages he has, because when he actually rages it's actually a decision he makes and not that he starts raging just because he can. Though there are definitely some changes I need to make with my encounters too, for example in our last session, the party was fighting a noble (who had a glass cannon-like magic item) plus some guards. Guards have 11 HP and before we played I didn't realise that anyone could easily one-shot them (I only put in 4 guards to not make the encounter too hard but instead it ended up being too easy).

The main problem I have is that when the barbarian rages, he has resistance to the most common damage types (at least for monsters), which will increase to almost every damage type since he will take the bear stance feature at lv 3.
It just feels pointless to target him with attacks since they will deal very little damage anyways and won't really make the encounter very challenging or exciting.

Thanks in advance! /Anton

[Reflux]

Tell your DM to come to this forum. We need to chat.

---

Hello. I'm John. I played a Barbarian for quite awhile. My first 5E character. Since, I've played Wizards, Fighters, Clerics, and a bunch of other things. Each class has a specific purpose in mind. Barbarians are designed, from the beginning, to be a force of reckoning in combat. They really are. And there's tons of ways to counter that, just like there's tons of ways to counter the things spellcasters can do.

I implore you: Do not punish a characters strengths. Let them shine. Punishing what a character can do is the worst thing you can do. The player characters are heroes. They're supposed to do cool, awesome &$@#. Yes, your job is to challenge them. Occasionally, your job is to slap them down to earth when they get too cocky for their own good.

But don't punish them for excelling at something. The worst thing you can do is discourage them from being awesome.

If you want help countering what your players can do, ask. And we will help.

Remember, be fair. It's you and the players together. Not you VS them. There's a huge difference.

Hi John! I'm Anton, the DM of the adventuring party.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not trying to remove his strength. I just think that the rage mechanic is a little pointless if he can rage all the time, then it might as well have been a passive ability, right? I want to decrease the amount of rages he has, because when he actually rages it's actually a decision he makes and not that he starts raging just because he can. Though there are definitely some changes I need to make with my encounters too, for example in our last session, the party was fighting a noble (who had a glass cannon-like magic item) plus some guards. Guards have 11 HP and before we played I didn't realise that anyone could easily one-shot them (I only put in 4 guards to not make the encounter too hard but instead it ended up being too easy).

The main problem I have is that when the barbarian rages, he has resistance to the most common damage types (at least for monsters), which will increase to almost every damage type since he will take the bear stance feature at lv 3.
It just feels pointless to target him with attacks since they will deal very little damage anyways and won't really make the encounter very challenging or exciting.

Thanks in advance! /Anton

[N810]

Hi John! I'm Anton, the DM of the adventuring party.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not trying to remove his strength. I just think that the rage mechanic is a little pointless if he can rage all the time, then it might as well have been a passive ability, right? I want to decrease the amount of rages he has, because when he actually rages it's actually a decision he makes and not that he starts raging just because he can. Though there are definitely some changes I need to make with my encounters too, for example in our last session, the party was fighting a noble (who had a glass cannon-like magic item) plus some guards. Guards have 11 HP and before we played I didn't realise that anyone could easily one-shot them (I only put in 4 guards to not make the encounter too hard but instead it ended up being too easy).

The main problem I have is that when the barbarian rages, he has resistance to the most common damage types (at least for monsters), which will increase to almost every damage type since he will take the bear stance feature at lv 3.
It just feels pointless to target him with attacks since they will deal very little damage anyways and won't really make the encounter very challenging or exciting.

Thanks in advance! /Anton

All you have to do is run away from the barbarian, or just keep him from attacking for 1 turn and he looses a precious rage.
or just roll higher initiative and attack him before he can activate rage.

[coolAlias]

@Reflux / Anton,

5e is balanced around 6-8 encounters per adventuring day with 2-3 short rests. If you find that getting that many encounters in within an in-game 24-hour period is too much, consider using one of the DMG rest variants.

This will solve your issue with rage as it will then become the limited resource it is intended to be.

[yPants]

Hi John! I'm Anton, the DM of the adventuring party.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not trying to remove his strength. I just think that the rage mechanic is a little pointless if he can rage all the time, then it might as well have been a passive ability, right? I want to decrease the amount of rages he has, because when he actually rages it's actually a decision he makes and not that he starts raging just because he can. Though there are definitely some changes I need to make with my encounters too, for example in our last session, the party was fighting a noble (who had a glass cannon-like magic item) plus some guards. Guards have 11 HP and before we played I didn't realise that anyone could easily one-shot them (I only put in 4 guards to not make the encounter too hard but instead it ended up being too easy).

The main problem I have is that when the barbarian rages, he has resistance to the most common damage types (at least for monsters), which will increase to almost every damage type since he will take the bear stance feature at lv 3.
It just feels pointless to target him with attacks since they will deal very little damage anyways and won't really make the encounter very challenging or exciting.

Thanks in advance! /Anton

I'm not sure you fully understand what people are saying. Barbarians (and full casters) tend to thrive in situations like your campaign. With only a few encounters per day, these classes have no reason to conserve resources and can go all-out all the time.

As I see it, your options are:
1. Live with imbalance;
2. Use different rest mechanics, as detailed in DMG;
3. Adjust your campaign to include more encounters per day;
4. Nerf ALL long-rest dependent classes;
5. Arbitrarily and unfairly nerf only the Barbarian class.
6. Adjust NPC tactics to counter the Barbarian and make him use up his rages.

I suggest using different rest mechanics. It is less intrusive to your planning, it is less clunky, and also fairly addresses the imbalance of short-rest dependent and long-rest dependent classes.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Hi John! I'm Anton, the DM of the adventuring party.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not trying to remove his strength. I just think that the rage mechanic is a little pointless if he can rage all the time, then it might as well have been a passive ability, right? I want to decrease the amount of rages he has, because when he actually rages it's actually a decision he makes and not that he starts raging just because he can. Though there are definitely some changes I need to make with my encounters too, for example in our last session, the party was fighting a noble (who had a glass cannon-like magic item) plus some guards. Guards have 11 HP and before we played I didn't realise that anyone could easily one-shot them (I only put in 4 guards to not make the encounter too hard but instead it ended up being too easy).

The main problem I have is that when the barbarian rages, he has resistance to the most common damage types (at least for monsters), which will increase to almost every damage type since he will take the bear stance feature at lv 3.
It just feels pointless to target him with attacks since they will deal very little damage anyways and won't really make the encounter very challenging or exciting.

Thanks in advance! /Anton
The barbarian does have a limited use of rage prior to level 20. If the player takes bear totem at level 3, that's giving up on other options and the player shouldn't be punished for that.

Don't think of it as pointless to attack him because it's not YOU attacking him, it's the guard (or the goblin, or the ooze) attacking him. They've got a frothing at the mouth madman in their face and what seems to be the only way out of it for them is to kill the barbarian before he kills them.

Seems to me that you might be a new DM (like me :smallsmile:) and I can only give you this advice: unless your setting says otherwise, the PC are powerful people. Your first goal should be to find ways to challenge your party with the resources given to you in the DMG and MM before changing the core mechanics of the game. Most importantly though, just keep in mind that it's a game for everyone involved (including you) to have fun. No one should be trying to "win DnD" especially if winning dnd involves changing the rules in your favor.

[mgshamster]

All you have to do is make any type of attack against a hostile to maintain your rage, or take an arrow to the knee because damage taken sustains rage, too.

So throw one of your sling bullets or a javelin at somebody.

Huh. I always thought it was melee attack. Good to know!

[Emay Ecks]

After getting wrecked by a strong barbarian in a campaign I run, I had the enemies think of craftier ways to deal with him.
Some of their methods included:

-Using a lasso to try to hold the barbarian down to end his rage without him attacking or him taking damage.
-Using surprise attacks and traps to get the barbarian down to lower hp before he started raging (yes I know barbarians get danger sense at level 2)
-Sending a meat shield to just waste the barbarian's time while the rest of the party was targeted
-Spells, especially ones that require a wisdom save. Hold person works wonders.

Although I did make sure to still give the barbarian plenty of chances to shine and plow through enemies without them trying to deal with him in intelligent ways. He has told me he enjoys the moments where he just destroys waves of enemies just as much as those where the enemies are using tactics and their brains to make sure he isn't the threat (I think he really likes being seen as the scariest member of the party).

[GlenSmash!]

Huh. I always thought it was melee attack. Good to know!

This is the reason I get longbows for my barbarians, if the choice is between firing an arrow and disadvantage, or losing rage, I fire an arrow.

[Theodoxus]

Hi John! I'm Anton, the DM of the adventuring party.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not trying to remove his strength. I just think that the rage mechanic is a little pointless if he can rage all the time, then it might as well have been a passive ability, right? I want to decrease the amount of rages he has, because when he actually rages it's actually a decision he makes and not that he starts raging just because he can. Though there are definitely some changes I need to make with my encounters too, for example in our last session, the party was fighting a noble (who had a glass cannon-like magic item) plus some guards. Guards have 11 HP and before we played I didn't realise that anyone could easily one-shot them (I only put in 4 guards to not make the encounter too hard but instead it ended up being too easy).

The main problem I have is that when the barbarian rages, he has resistance to the most common damage types (at least for monsters), which will increase to almost every damage type since he will take the bear stance feature at lv 3.
It just feels pointless to target him with attacks since they will deal very little damage anyways and won't really make the encounter very challenging or exciting.

Thanks in advance! /Anton

Half damage feels really powerful, and when you're comparing it to something like a wizard, it is. But I'm playing a barbarian in a campaign right now - very similar to what you're describing. I can tell you, even with 26 HPs at 2nd level, it doesn't take very many big hits, or even decent ones, to make me reconsider my tactics... Use minions and leaders. Have the leader challenge the barbarian while his minions take on the rest of the party. Unless he's got a couple rogue levels, that barbarian won't sacrifice an OA to chase down the minions. The big bad might deal a couple more points of damage, and be able to soak a few more hits. The minions would be popcorn to the barbarian, but decent opponents to everyone else...

And if you can spare a minion or two to take potshots at the barbarian, just to whittle his doubled hitpoints that much faster, it'll make the fight take on a bit more desperate hue.

On top of that, if the encounter is over in 2, 3, even 4 rounds, it feels like a waste of rage... yeah, it might have saved his bacon, but it still feels like a wasted resource... sprinkle those in throughout the day, and he'll stop raging every time he rolls initiative, and learn to use it when it's most important - and when you have an encounter specifically designed to show off his strengths.

Just food for thought :)

[LordVonDerp]

All you have to do is run away from the barbarian, or just keep him from attacking for 1 turn and he looses a precious rage.
That is the worst way to solve this.

[mgshamster]

That is the worst way to solve this.

It's the solution most people take when a raging barbarian screams at them wielding a giant sword.

[Sir cryosin]

Hi John! I'm Anton, the DM of the adventuring party.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not trying to remove his strength. I just think that the rage mechanic is a little pointless if he can rage all the time, then it might as well have been a passive ability, right? I want to decrease the amount of rages he has, because when he actually rages it's actually a decision he makes and not that he starts raging just because he can. Though there are definitely some changes I need to make with my encounters too, for example in our last session, the party was fighting a noble (who had a glass cannon-like magic item) plus some guards. Guards have 11 HP and before we played I didn't realise that anyone could easily one-shot them (I only put in 4 guards to not make the encounter too hard but instead it ended up being too easy).

The main problem I have is that when the barbarian rages, he has resistance to the most common damage types (at least for monsters), which will increase to almost every damage type since he will take the bear stance feature at lv 3.
It just feels pointless to target him with attacks since they will deal very little damage anyways and won't really make the encounter very challenging or exciting.

Thanks in advance! /Anton

As a DM that's only been DMing for a year I had a bear barbarian playing in my game. I was getting frustrated and trying to take her down. Because at the time I was doing the same as you haveing 1 or 2 fighters per-day. What I learned was.
1. Target the barbarian with save spells and effects. A nice casting of hold person can take the barbarian out of the fight for a couple of rounds killing his rage.
2. You really need more combats then 1 or 2 per-day. It makes the games feel better. And it let's players have more fun. Because 90% D&D rules are about combat. If you want a RP game there are far better systems.
3. Don't Nerf classes they are balanced with the game as a hole. If you nerf something everything thing else gets 10 time more powerful.
4. Back to only having 1 or 2 fighters per-day. The Barbarian is not going to be one shotting things at higher levels. As the characters gain levels the casters are going to drop there highest level spells the just blow through your fights.

[ruy343]

Just a quick note here that hasn't quite been stated explicitly: the barbarian class is not overpowered. A this level, sure, a barbarian is quite useful to have around, and they're especially great if they only encounter one or two encounters a day. However, rage only affects the barbarian, doesn't add a crazy amount of damage (besides, you're the one who let him start with a +4 in a stat; that's not possible by RAW), doesn't add crazy mobility, etc. It's not stunning strike, or spellcasting, damage immunity, or anything that really prevents you from having fun as the DM either.

So, how do we DM for barbarians? As mentioned above, having more than two combats per day can be really helpful. However, my advice is to make them shine! Praise your barbarian player for choosing a character with high survivability, and provide them with opportunities to save the day. Then you smile that evil-DM smile, and you point out that he can't be in two places at once. When the party is in trouble, feel free to twist the knife, and make the barbarian have to choose where he wants to be in the combat.

For example: our heroes are in a kobold den, helping a local landlord with kobolds who have begun killing his farmers' cattle. They come up against a few dragonshields (front liners), but also get attacked by skirmishers which had been hiding in a side passage, and which are now attacking your back lines. Where does the barbarian choose to be? Front line? Protecting the weak? He can't be in two places at once, so forcing a two-front battle can allow your barbarian to shine, while still letting you have the fun you want.

Later, our heroes encounter another group of kobolds in a tall cavern with sloped sides. The enemy appears to be entrenched ahead of you, but as you advance, some hidden kobolds on the right push down a large boulder and begin firing arrows. Where does your barbarian choose to be? Does he charge the enemy frontline (who retreat to safety in tunnels too small for the barbarian to follow because they're a decoy)? Does he climb to attack the flankers? Does he use his awesome strength to catch or deflect the boulder, taking himself out of "combat" for a turn while protecting the others? Either way, you, as DM, get to have some fun, and the barbarian gets to shine by whatever he chooses.

[Malifice]

So. In one of the adventuring groups im a part of I am playing a Dwarf Barbarian. And we are currently lvl 2 after 2 sessions.

The problem is that I am fairly tanky, 25hp 15ac and I hit like a TRUCK. Littlerly... I have one hitted multiple monsters we faced and my DM think that im too overpowered. Because when I roll the d12 for great axe dmg I get to add 6 addittional dmg from the rage dmg and my str modifyer (I also have resistance against almost all types of dmg at lvl 3).

DM wants to reduce the amount of rages I have per day to 1. But the rage ability is the main thing about Barbarian. One thing that could balance it out would be too have lots of encounters but DM wants too have more social interaction than battle and therefore we have about 1-2 encounters per day. I dont want him to nerf me too much but still I dont want to be overpowered either. What should we do?

Get him using the gritty realism rest variant. Its perfect for these sorts of campaigns.

It turns short rests into overnight affairs and long rests into week long affairs (in town).

Basically you will still get x/rages per long rest, but a long rest takes a week. You'll also heal slower.

Seeing as these changes affect everyone, its a wash.

[Twizzly513]

As said upthread, this is not any fault of the Barbarian class, it is his own. What he needs to do is understand what Barbarian does well, and put some encounters to help balance things. Swarm encounters are a dream for a Barbarian, resistance against their already weak attacks, being able to one hit, ample targets to stay in rage. But in a fight against an illusionist wizard, a barbarian can barely stay in rage, and psychic damage can be done to them, and if a barbarian is hit while NOT in rage like this, then they take full damage.

In conclusion, your DM needs to NOT do swarm encounters all the time, which obviously he is doing. He needs to tailor the game to the player's needs. Not tailor the players to the game's needs. That's his job.

[Puh Laden]

(besides, you're the one who let him start with a +4 in a stat; that's not possible by RAW).

Correction: rolling for stats is the default for rules as written, point-buy and the array are variants.


But yes, the barbarian is not overpowered. Using the variant resting mechanics are probably the simplest way of changing things, or adding like four easy encounters. Remember that if you use the default resting rules, you can't benefit from a long rest twice within a 24 hour period. If you do use a variant rest sydtem,decide how you'll rule the wizard's arcane recovery if you have a wizard.

[Gryndle]

Tell your DM to come to this forum. We need to chat.

---

Hello. I'm John. I played a Barbarian for quite awhile. My first 5E character. Since, I've played Wizards, Fighters, Clerics, and a bunch of other things. Each class has a specific purpose in mind. Barbarians are designed, from the beginning, to be a force of reckoning in combat. They really are. And there's tons of ways to counter that, just like there's tons of ways to counter the things spellcasters can do.

I implore you: Do not punish a characters strengths. Let them shine. Punishing what a character can do is the worst thing you can do. The player characters are heroes. They're supposed to do cool, awesome &$@#. Yes, your job is to challenge them. Occasionally, your job is to slap them down to earth when they get too cocky for their own good.

But don't punish them for excelling at something. The worst thing you can do is discourage them from being awesome.

If you want help countering what your players can do, ask. And we will help.

Remember, be fair. It's you and the players together. Not you VS them. There's a huge difference.

Wish there was a way to give a standing ovation on the internet

[Samayu]

I think barbarians have a bigger advantage at the lowest levels. One of the reasons this curve smooths out is because more damage types show up. You're more likely to be hit with spells or acid, for example, thereby taking full damage, instead of half.

[GlenSmash!]

While not all that common, there are quite a few Monsters that can make a Barbarian have a bad time, even at low levels. I remember my Goliath barb coming up against a Shadow. Every hit did necrotic damage, which my rage was no good against, and on top of that reduced my strength score. I'm still surprised I wasn't flat out killed.