Best 4 PCs core group

[Timy]

I was wondering what would be the best 4 PCs group using only PHB DMG and MM.

When I mean best, I mean not only for combat. And good for leveling from level 1 to 20 ; not "the best at level 5-7 but very bad at other levels".

[smcmike]

Easy. Four barbarians.

[DivisibleByZero]

Champion Fighter
Thief Rogue
Life Cleric
Illusionist/Enchanter Wizard

All standard human
No multiclassing, no feats
And NO SPRINKLES on my vanilla cones, please.

Those are the iconic characters for a reason.

[mephnick]

4 Champions

[Renduaz]

All of them dipping 2 levels into Divination Wizard for Portent, having 8 forced saving throw re-rolls between them, if only 4 of those are **** after a long rest or a few ( Maybe with Lucky Feat ) too, that's enough to waste even most bosses legendary resistance within a single round potentially. Then force a save-or-suck ability on it ( I.E Polymorph/Imprisonment ).

[Elminster298]

All of them dipping 2 levels into Divination Wizard for Portent, having 8 forced saving throw re-rolls between them, if only 4 of those are **** after a long rest or a few ( Maybe with Lucky Feat ) too, that's enough to waste even most bosses legendary resistance within a single round potentially. Then force a save-or-suck ability on it ( I.E Polymorph/Imprisonment ).

Pfft! Take this a step further! Four halfling Diviner 2/lore bard X all with Lucky. Reroll 1s, eight portent dice, twelve luck rerolls, and inspiration dice based on charisma bonus possibly refreshed on short rest depending on level. Magical secrets allows for a wide range of different spells from all classes. I think this would be one of the most frustrating party comps for a DM to deal with.

[Renduaz]

Pfft! Take this a step further! Four halfling Diviner 2/lore bard X all with Lucky. Reroll 1s, eight portent dice, twelve luck rerolls, and inspiration dice based on charisma bonus possibly refreshed on short rest depending on level. Magical secrets allows for a wide range of different spells from all classes. I think this would be one of the most frustrating party comps for a DM to deal with.

That's indeed pretty powerful.

[strangebloke]

These ridiculous all-one-class parties aside.

Realistically, you are going to want teleport/plane shift as well as revivify.

You're going to want long-term stable damage output for those extra-long adventuring days.

You're going to want out-of-combat skill mastery

You're going to want serious burst for those nasty boss monsters.

You're going to need someone to take the hits.

So I'd say:
Rogue: HP is the only long-rest resource, lots of consistent damage.
Paladin (Nova damage, as well as suport. A sorcadin is even better)
Abjuration Wizard (my favorite for how good it is at keeping others alive)
Cleric (for healing and support)

No on will have an AC lower than 17, and everyone will be able to mitigate damage, while still contributing damage. Most of these classes also have strong support abilities.

[Willie the Duck]

I was wondering what would be the best 4 PCs group using only PHB DMG and MM.

When I mean best, I mean not only for combat. And good for leveling from level 1 to 20 ; not "the best at level 5-7 but very bad at other levels".

Without knowing your definition of best (and 'not just for combat' is useful information, but insufficient), we'll have a hard time answering. Is this novice players, new-to-edition players, or 5e experienced players? Are they going to be dungeon-crawling or otherwise might want SR-recharging classes? Will they have access to purchasing resurrection or disease/curse removal if they do not have a level-appropriate cleric in the party? Etc. Etc.



Champion Fighter
Thief Rogue
Life Cleric
Illusionist/Enchanter Wizard

I would actually put in the bearbarian or paladin in there instead of fighter, and likely have a bard (valor bard if replacing the rogue, life cleric 1/lore bard if replacing the cleric). That assumes a relatively experienced group. For a new to 5e group, I honestly would do
Champion Fighter, Life Cleric, Evoker Wizard (never underestimate how useful it is to drop a fireball on your own front line if your party doesn't have the finer points of the edition down), and some skill-heavy class other than rogue. That last one is the trickiest. A rogue is actually pretty hard to do. I might rather have a bard, ranger, or something simple (like EB-focused warlock or second front-liner) who just takes the skilled feat.

[smcmike]

These ridiculous all-one-class parties aside.

They aren't ridiculous. You are ridiculous to doubt the might of the Brothers Barbarian.



Realistically, you are going to want teleport/plane shift as well as revivify.

Kidnap a spellcaster.

Check



You're going to want long-term stable damage output for those extra-long adventuring days.

Check



You're going to want out-of-combat skill mastery

Or, alternatively, the ability to change out-of-combat encounters into combat encounters.

Check.



You're going to want serious burst for those nasty boss monsters.


Check.



You're going to need someone to take the hits.


Check check check check.

[Naanomi]

Frontline Fighter - Oathbreaker Paladin
Tactical Magic - Necromancer Wizard
Healing and Support - Deaths Domain Cleric
Skills Access - Lore Bard

All of them get access to Animate Dead; march an army in (and have a functional party as well)

[Zman]

I'd say.... this group is pretty solid. Maybe not the "best", but IMO it sets a pretty high bar.

GWM Bearbarian or GWM Battlemaster
PAM Vengence Paladin
Lore Barb
Abjuration Wizard

[Easy_Lee]

Or, alternatively, the ability to change out-of-combat encounters into combat encounters.

Hah, I like this. So, a party of murderhobos?

[BestPlayer]

Human Barbarian Berserker
Gnome Conjurer
Half Elven Lore Bard
Human Blade Fiend Warlock

[Timy]

Without knowing your definition of best (and 'not just for combat' is useful information, but insufficient), we'll have a hard time answering.

I guess I want your definition of best.

But to answer your question, I was thinking experienced 5e players knowing all the tricks...

And I want every kind of best (and even only short rest scenarios).

For this purpose, the 4 lore bards with a 2 level dip in divination wizard are lacking ^^ (but it is still a great answer :P)

EDIT : wait, I missed the part where they have A LOT of inspiration dice... and refreshing them every short rest when level 5.

So a question : when taking these 2 level in wizardry ?

[Arcangel4774]

Ek7/Warlock 2/ At11 w/ xbow feat as the dpr master of the party.

Pal 6/7 sorcerer X. Frontline with a good nova

Abjuration wizard (deep gnome of course) defensive with all the perks of a wizard.

Life cleric 1/ lore bard 19. You have all the heals you need, alongside the rest of the bardic values.

[smcmike]

Hah, I like this. So, a party of murderhobos?

That is one way to see it. But Grug must ask, is it truly murder to kill these flatlanders? They are so soft and there are so many of them.

[Elminster298]

I guess I want your definition of best.

But to answer your question, I was thinking experienced 5e players knowing all the tricks...

And I want every kind of best (and even only short rest scenarios).

For this purpose, the 4 lore bards with a 2 level dip in divination wizard are lacking ^^ (but it is still a great answer :P)

EDIT : wait, I missed the part where they have A LOT of inspiration dice... and refreshing them every short rest when level 5.

So a question : when taking these 2 level in wizardry ?

1st and 2nd levels for Diviner then Bard the rest of the way. I personally think this is the best but you could also go Bard 5->Diviner 2->Bard X to get your short rest inspiration. Technically it would probably be better to have two characters go the former path and the other two go the latter for some much needed diversity.

[Draken]

That is one way to see it. But Grug must ask, is it truly murder to kill these flatlanders? They are so soft and there are so many of them.

Send an official declaration of war first. Then you aren't a murderhobo! You are a forward taskforce.

[Elminster298]

That is one way to see it. But Grug must ask, is it truly murder to kill these flatlanders? They are so soft and there are so many of them.

I see this very much like Elder Scrolls:Morrowind... Just keep intimidating people until they attack first that way it's not "murder". 🤔

[JAL_1138]

1) Fighter 1/Valor Bard 19 or Fighter 2/Valor Bard 18
2) Life Cleric 1/Lore Bard 19
3) Warlock 2/Lore Bard 18
4) Ancients Paladin 7/Lore Bard 13, or [any other Paladin] 6 / Lore Bard 14

[Waterdeep Merch]

Wood Elf Battlemaster Fighter archer with Sharpshooter
Half-Elf Lore Bard with Ritual Caster and expertise in thieves' tools
Half-Elf Sorcadin sword n' board
Variant Human Totem Barbarian with PAM and Sentinel

A combat-intensive team with strong support and decent skills. Heavy, and I mean heavy, defensive capabilities, nova hate like you wouldn't believe, the stamina to last through plenty of encounters if necessary, and crazy good buff and debuff options. They have some trouble with AoE, but this can be covered by careful spell selection by the bard and sorcadin.

Out of combat, rely on the bard, with some support from the fighter and sorcadin (in that order).

[Corran]

- 1 wizard (probably conjurer or necromancer for summons)
- 1 ranged dpr (probably rogue to cover for skills too)
- 2 frontliners to hold the line (any two from barbarian, cleric, fighter, paladin; but probably at least one of these two frontliners has to be either a cleric or a paladin, for some much needed support)

That would be my rough sketch for a good 4-PC party.

[Coffee_Dragon]

Pfft! Take this a step further! Four halfling Diviner 2/lore bard X all with Lucky. Reroll 1s, eight portent dice, twelve luck rerolls, and inspiration dice based on charisma bonus possibly refreshed on short rest depending on level. Magical secrets allows for a wide range of different spells from all classes. I think this would be one of the most frustrating party comps for a DM to deal with.

Every time the DM says, "I want to roll a die. Can I roll a die?" they can go "We shall convene", and then after huddling for five minutes, "You may proceed... this time."

[Biggstick]

Dwarf Nature Cleric (Outlander, Spirit Guardian pseudo tank)
Half Elf Trickery Cleric (Criminal/Urchin background for Thieves Tools, party scout and occasional face)
Half Elf Knowledge Cleric (Sage, Knowledge Expertise, shares Bless responsibilities with Light Cleric, Out of Combat wizard, occasional face)
Elf Light Cleric (Acolyte, blaster caster, shares Bless responsibilities with Knowledge Cleric, occasional face)

Everyone can heal each other. Everyone can see in the dark. Blessing of the Trickster allows the heavy armor wearing Nature Cleric to get past disadvantage, while Pass w/o Trace allows for the party to sneak in places. Great face-sharing abilities, with the Knowledge Cleric capable of manipulating the conversations with Channel Divinity. Blaster caster in the form of your Light Cleric. And lastly, a tank in the form of a Nature Cleric.



Just the idea of 4 Clerics from 4 different deities in one party sounds like a great time to me. :D

[Theodoxus]

Pfft! Take this a step further! Four halfling Diviner 2/lore bard X all with Lucky. Reroll 1s, eight portent dice, twelve luck rerolls, and inspiration dice based on charisma bonus possibly refreshed on short rest depending on level. Magical secrets allows for a wide range of different spells from all classes. I think this would be one of the most frustrating party comps for a DM to deal with.

That would indeed be quite powerful to a single boss. Add in 100 kobold followers who straggle in 7 at a time so you're not fireballing the lot of them, include traps and locked doors to burn spell slots on Knock... and your '"frustrating for a DM" becomes "frustrated PCs".

That's the problem with white room problem solving... you come up with the perfect solution to a singular problem while forgetting there's an infinite amount of iterations to account for.


@OP - the best 4 PCs core group is whatever lets each player and DM have fun - whatever that might mean. There's pretty much a class or subclass that can be tailored to meet the playstyle anyone likes. About the only thing that doesn't work is lone wolf - 4 lone wolves would make for a pretty miserable experience for the 3 players not in the limelight at any particular time...

[Biggstick]

@OP - the best 4 PCs core group is whatever lets each player and DM have fun - whatever that might mean. There's pretty much a class or subclass that can be tailored to meet the playstyle anyone likes. About the only thing that doesn't work is lone wolf - 4 lone wolves would make for a pretty miserable experience for the 3 players not in the limelight at any particular time...

Isn't Suicide Squad made up of lone wolves? I mean, except for Harley. But even she knows how to function on her own.

[Elminster298]

Every time the DM says, "I want to roll a die. Can I roll a die?" they can go "We shall convene", and then after huddling for five minutes, "You may proceed... this time."

I prefer to think it's more like...

DM: "Can I finally roll a die?"
PC: "Of course you can! It won't matter, but you can roll it anyway."

[smcmike]

That would indeed be quite powerful to a single boss. Add in 100 kobold followers who straggle in 7 at a time so you're not fireballing the lot of them, include traps and locked doors to burn spell slots on Knock... and your '"frustrating for a DM" becomes "frustrated PCs".

That's the problem with white room problem solving... you come up with the perfect solution to a singular problem while forgetting there's an infinite amount of iterations to account for.


@OP - the best 4 PCs core group is whatever lets each player and DM have fun - whatever that might mean. There's pretty much a class or subclass that can be tailored to meet the playstyle anyone likes. About the only thing that doesn't work is lone wolf - 4 lone wolves would make for a pretty miserable experience for the 3 players not in the limelight at any particular time...

This actually has something to do with my "four barbarians" answer. No, four barbarians can't do everything a party with more varied skill sets can do. That's true. But having everyone on the same page can be nice too - no waiting around at the mouth of the dungeon for the Rogue to get himself killed because he needs to "scout" to feel valuable. No sitting through poorly acted out "diplomacy" or other boring, thin social interaction, because your bard needs to use his charm. No waiting around for your mages to make sure they have the exact right set of spells prepared. When the four Barbarian party shows up at the table, you know you are gonna smash some stuff and have a good time doing it.

I'm not actually badmouthing stealth or social or spell-based gaming, just pointing out that the party that shows up at the table determines the goals that they'd like to accomplish.

[KorvinStarmast]

-neato cleric party-
Just the idea of 4 Clerics from 4 different deities in one party sounds like a great time to me. :D Not to mention a great discussion group at the pub once the beer gets flowing.

This actually has something to do with my "four barbarians" answer.
. Or, three barbarians and a Druid, or three barbarians and a lore bard. I think the former would work better thematically.

[Findulidas]

Necromancer wizard, Oathbreaker paladin, life cleric and handcrossbow/sharpshooter fighter. Will mow down anything and they will be pretty resilient with all those undead meatshields. Between wis, cha, dex and int maxed builds you can get a nice spread of skills as well.


4 Champions

Everyone knows battlemaster is better!

[JAL_1138]

Not to mention a great discussion group at the pub once the beer gets flowing.
Or, three barbarians and a Druid, or three barbarians and a lore bard. I think the former would work better thematically.

Fluff the Bard a Viking Skald and it works well with three Barbarians thematically.

[Paeleus]

I'm a bit of a traditionalist so I'd say:

Fighter (Champion or Battle Master [Champion can get boring]) - for the frontline damage, Strength checks, and general tankiness.
Rogue (Thief) - for the skills, the burst damage, and battlefield maneuverability.
Cleric (Life) - for the heals, spells, and primary/secondary tankiness.
Wizard (Evocation) - for the arcane magic, Intelligence checks, and magical versatility/utility. Plus being able to fireball around friendlies is pretty handy and doesn't detract from party chemistry.

Since half the party isn't reliant on magic, antimagic fields and the cause much less of a problem.

[Gtdead]

Sorcadin at the driving seat, lore bard for general purpose support and skills, divination wizard for magic support.

4th member should be something to deal huge damage. Fighter is the safer bet with 2 casters buffing him. Barbarian is great for a normal level curve. Sorlock is super strong but riskier due to magic resistance.

[90sMusic]

Moon Druid
Fighter
Bard
Rogue

This combination gives you:
2 Classes that can heal and restore status effects as well as resurrect
4 Classes capable of dealing ranged damage
2 Classes with wide assortment of skills and expertise
3 Classes with very high stealth potential
2 Classes capable of absorbing or avoiding large amounts of damage

In addition, Rogue with Use Magic Device can use any wands, staves, other equipment usually reserved for wizards/sorcerers/warlocks.

The party can sleep safely every single night starting with Leomund's Tiny Hut once available and eventually upgrading to the magical mansion, no watches are even needed. Lots of healing, restorative potential, lots of damage potential, lots of tank potential, etc.

Bard with max charisma and expertise in deception/persuasion can talk their way into and out of anything. Fighter's strength gives you all the muscle you need to move heavy things or force your way through doors or whatever. Druid's wisdom gives you great perception potential early on that can potentially be done even better by the rogue and bard later through expertise.

And when the bard gets true polymorph, you can eventually turn your entire party into 4 adult red dragons one at a time permanently and become nigh-unstoppable. The bard can get Wish as well as true polymorph unlocking the potential to use any other spell in the game you may not have picked up and might need for any given situation.

[Breaklance]

War cleric, divination wizard, devotion paladin, college of lore bard.

Gets you everything you need. Everyone can buff everyone, bard and pally got the party face covered, wizard has int saves, cleric has wis saves, cleric and pally have access to dieties, wizard is as wizard does, and bard is you stop gap for anything else you need - expertise and Jack of all trades aren't that far behind rogues for skill monkey