How would you deal with this swarm?

[gooddragon1]

Flying Adamantine Animated Object Diminuitive Swarm with perpetual AMF and a swarm attack damage of 3d6.

I think I'd heard of this happening or something similar. Just wondering how a party would handle it. For the purpose of exploring options we're talking about a party of 20th level characters who know in advance they'd have to deal with this.

Also, could it be nastier? Incorporeal or something?

[Hackulator]

Flying Adamantine Animated Object Diminuitive Swarm with perpetual AMF and a swarm attack damage of 3d6.

I think I'd heard of this happening or something similar. Just wondering how a party would handle it. For the purpose of exploring options we're talking about a party of 20th level characters who know in advance they'd have to deal with this.

Also, could it be nastier? Incorporeal or something?

It can't be incorporeal, incorporeal creatures blink out of existence in an AMF.

I would lure it into a stone tunnel I created and once it was inside I would dump copious buckets of acid on it. It has an Int of like, 0.

edit: there are a million versions of "lure it inside and drop **** on it" so any of those

[gooddragon1]

It can't be incorporeal, incorporeal creatures blink out of existence in an AMF.

I would lure it into a stone tunnel I created and once it was inside I would dump copious buckets of acid on it. It has an Int of like, 0.

edit: there are a million versions of "lure it inside and drop **** on it" so any of those

But it has flying though. Would you just have some way to keep it trapped while pouring stuff on it?

[Hackulator]

But it has flying though. Would you just have some way to keep it trapped while pouring stuff on it?

I lure it into a long 5 by 5 tunnel which I have lined with traps that do nonmagical aoe damage.

[ExLibrisMortis]

It can't be incorporeal, incorporeal creatures blink out of existence in an AMF.
That's just incorporeal undead. Other incorporeal creatures (unbodied, for one) can enter antimagic fields just fine.

The swarm can be beaten by deadfall, and other instantaneous conjurations that affect an area. On a more typical wizard loadout, you might rely on instantaneous containment (wall of stone) until you can devise a permanent solution.

[flappeercraft]

I would kill it with voidstone.

[Buufreak]

But it has flying though. Would you just have some way to keep it trapped while pouring stuff on it?

Regardless of flying, you can always technically be above it. So as long as you haven't reached a height of gravity=0, dumping anything on it is a valid option, because despite being millions of little buggers, they have to keep clumped up in a single space.

Other options include sphere of annih-Icantspell.

[Hackulator]

That's just incorporeal undead. Other incorporeal creatures (unbodied, for one) can enter antimagic fields just fine.

The swarm can be beaten by deadfall.

Check Rules Compendium, page 11, Incorporeal creatures disappear in AMF.

[Zanos]

Forcecage works in an AMF.

[Shadowquad]

Any instantaneous Conjuration (Creation) AoE would work I think. For instance, Vitriolic Sphere or Cometfall

[ExLibrisMortis]

Check Rules Compendium, page 11, Incorporeal creatures disappear in AMF.
Interesting. What a place and time to update the RAW on something so niche (applies to more RC paragraphs). It appears to be an oversight, too. The first part of the paragraph mentions that 'corporeal undead' function normally, which seems a reference to the PHB version of antimagic field, but then it says all incorporeal creatures are affected. Ah well. Guess the swarm will have to use a selective antimagic field if it wants to turn incorporeal.

[Hackulator]

Interesting. What a place and time to update the RAW on something so niche (applies to more RC paragraphs). It appears to be an oversight, too. The first part of the paragraph mentions that 'corporeal undead' function normally, which seems a reference to the PHB version of antimagic field, but then it says all incorporeal creatures are affected. Ah well. Guess the swarm will have to use a selective antimagic field if it wants to turn incorporeal.

The reason it mentions corporeal undead is because people will try to argue that corporeal undead are by their nature animated by magic and so should fall over.

[ExLibrisMortis]

The reason it mentions corporeal undead is because people will try to argue that corporeal undead are by their nature animated by magic and so should fall over.
Well, yeah, obviously, it's in the PHB version as well. It's just jarring that first part of the rule sets you up for the PHB version of antimagic field, and then the second part randomly changes that detail. Randomly, as in, were they getting a lot of angry feedback about unbodied in antimagic fields?

[Thurbane]

Own a trained Rust Monster? Winged template optional. :smalltongue:

[Zakerst]

I would probably do something with wind to just blow it away. (Probably through a gate to the plane of positive energy)
If I'm playing a warlock vitriolic AOE eldrich blasts would be my go to. If I want wbl-mancy higher a bunch of people to throw or shoot acid at it.
Maybe gate in some stuff with natural energy damage (or planer bind them) elementals come to mind (on phone so can't really check if their fire damage is su).
Ask the DM if I can get ahold of some flamethrowers (shouldn't be hard to get something like that or just steal one from a d20 system).
Gate in some swarms and just let them eat eachother, adding swarms until only the ones I brought through are around.
Summon up a bunch of monkeys and handout mundane torches.
If you need to make it nastier it seems like most of the simple solutions are use acid or fire, so make it immune or resistant to those.

[Inevitability]

First, lure the swarm to a large, open space: the sky will do fine. Then, using whatever action economy-screwing shenanigans you prefer, cast Wall of Force as often as necessary to completely encapsule the swarm and its AMF. Finally, cast Permanency on each of the Walls.

Even if the swarm were incorporeal or ethereal, it'd still be stuck here. Extraordinary teleportation, if such a thing exists, might help it, but even then warding the area against teleports can be done (Weirdstone, anyone?).

[J-H]

I would take Inevitability's solution and add on a casting of Gate or other teleportation spell to place this swarm amongst people whom I do not like.

[OldTrees1]

Correct me if I am wrong, but am I correct in thinking it has less than 2hp and only 20 hardness? 6d6 acid damage should kill it on average.

Solution: 7th level Wizard casts Orb of Acid from outside the AMF. The swarm melts.

[Inevitability]

First, lure the swarm to a large, open space: the sky will do fine. Then, using whatever action economy-screwing shenanigans you prefer, cast Wall of Force as often as necessary to completely encapsule the swarm and its AMF. Finally, cast Permanency on each of the Walls.

Even if the swarm were incorporeal or ethereal, it'd still be stuck here. Extraordinary teleportation, if such a thing exists, might help it, but even then warding the area against teleports can be done (Weirdstone, anyone?).

Just realized that there's no need for action economy abuse, or even getting close to the swarm. Just create the cage a long distance away, then Wish the swarm into it. It's a construct with 1 wisdom: I'm not expecting it to succeed on its saving throw any time soon.

[Crake]

Just realized that there's no need for action economy abuse, or even getting close to the swarm. Just create the cage a long distance away, then Wish the swarm into it. It's a construct with 1 wisdom: I'm not expecting it to succeed on its saving throw any time soon.

Except swarms are immune to targetted spells, since they are actually a collection of creatures. A wish would only bring 17 individuals from the swarm, rather than the whole swarm, which would be hundreds to thousands.

[Inevitability]

Except swarms are immune to targetted spells, since they are actually a collection of creatures. A wish would only bring 17 individuals from the swarm, rather than the whole swarm, which would be hundreds to thousands.

True. I guess the force-prison suffices on its own, though.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Acid breath is a decent instantaneous aoe conjuration: 15' cone, 1d6 acid/level, max 10d6, third-level spell. Blast of flame is a 4th-level spell that has a 60' cone (and deals fire damage).
Arc of lightning is pretty cool, two. It requires you to target two creatures and creates an arc between them (1d6/level lightning damage, max 15d6), but it's an instantaneous conjuration, too. You could summon some birds to fly on either side of the swarm, and blast them down that way.

None of these have very long ranges, but that's okay, because the swarm doesn't have ranged attacks either.

[ayvango]

Gain breath weapon somehow, e.g. with the Dragon Breath spell. Modify it with blinding breath or other nasty debuff. If you book of the nine cheats is allowed, than there are plenty of Ex AoE manoeuvres here.

[lord_khaine]

Gain breath weapon somehow, e.g. with the Dragon Breath spell. Modify it with blinding breath or other nasty debuff. If you book of the nine cheats is allowed, than there are plenty of Ex AoE manoeuvres here.

Kinda funny that you casually mention spellcasting while accusing ToB of being a book of cheats :smallamused:

But no, i dont think there are any ex maneuvers that deal AOE damage. There is quite a few supernatural ones though.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Ballista Throw allows you to throw an opponent to damage all creatures in a 60' line. It's not supernatural, but it's awfully specific :smallbiggrin:.

[lord_khaine]

Alright yeah fair enough. i could only remember the setting sun ones. And did not recall anything else

[ayvango]

I call the Book of Nine Cheats so, because it stacks with spellcasting. And provide awfully powerful combo Ruby Knight Vindicator.

BTW I forget the most straightforward and effective way available for a cleric. Just take warforged domain and rebuke constructs.

[lord_khaine]

Gahh.. oh gods.. is that it? Tome of Battle dont stack with spellcasting better than it stacks with anything else. In a lot of ways it actually stack worse with a spellcaster than with something like a rogue or a paladin. Because you only get 1 action each round. And a spellcaster usually has a lot better things to use that for than smack someone in the head with a piece of metal.

Also, Ruby Knight Vindicator is not awfully strong. It is a good prestice class yes. But there is a lot others that are more powerful.

[ExLibrisMortis]

BTW I forget the most straightforward and effective way available for a cleric. Just take warforged domain and rebuke constructs.
Rebuking is a supernatural ability, so it's blocked by the antimagic field. Same problem with breath weapons (most/all are not instantaneous conjurations).

[Thurbane]

A sprayer (AEG) filled with acid produces a 10 foot cloud. The acid will destroy the sprayer in a few rounds, so you'll need to fill it up as combat starts; the refill time is not defined, AFAIK.

[Nifft]

Seems like any kind of (Ex) area damage that ignores hardness can effectively defeat this swarm.

Monsters like the Devourer might be a good place to start.

[torrasque666]

How many HP are we talking here? Because honestly this sounds like a couple flasks of Acid thrown at it should handle it. Even if its only taking the 1 point of damage from Splash Damage, thats what? 8 flasks or so?

[lord_khaine]

It seems to be a custom monster, so honestly it would have as many HP as its creater gave it.
Though do think it is a little silly.

[Calthropstu]

Wall of iron, push it over.
Next?

[Gildedragon]

Don't animated objects stop in an AMF?

[Inevitability]

Don't animated objects stop in an AMF?

Depends. They do if they were created as a result of some ongoing spell effect (such as the Animate Objects spell), but there's a few ways to have animated objects that aren't dependent on such magic, such as an urban druid's companion.