Pathfinder(ish) Gestalt? Oh, and level buyoff, too.

[Quertus]

So, I've been looking at back porting Pathfinder rules for playing monsters to 3.x, where the monster's total level cost is equal to its CR. If you're playing at a level lower than the monster's CR, that's fine, you just take a penalty to everything (attacks, saves, skill checks, effective caster level, save DCs) equal to the difference. I'm fine so far. Sometimes it's a bit strong, but it's a lot easier than Savage Species progressions.

But now I've hit a snag when it comes to Gestalt. What, exactly, should and shouldn't the penalties apply to?

Let's say, for example, that, on one side of my Gestalt, I've got a werelion, and, on the other side, 3 levels of rogue. Should I get my choice of the werelion attack bonus minus the penalty or the rogues attack bonus, or should I apply the penalty to both possible choices? Same for saving throws. How do you handle skill points in this scenario?

Does Pathfinder have rules for Gestalt, and, if so, does it cover this scenario of Gestalt with a monster on one side, at levels lower than the monster's CR?

EDIT: oh, an additional question: has anyone ever found a way to make level adjustment buy off play nice with Gestalt?

[Florian]

PF doesn´t have Gestalt rules. We basically use combo-archetypes and VMC for that.

[Quertus]

Sadness.

VMC?

[Florian]

VMC?

Variant Multiclassing. Basically, you give up some feats and gain some class features of another class. Want Smite Evil and Lay on Hands on your Barbarian? VMC Paladin. Want Domains and Channeling on your Wizard? VMC Cleric, and so on.

[Grod_The_Giant]

There's no reason you couldn't use 3.5's gestalt rules; they are essentially the same game.

If I'm understanding this right, if you're playing, say, a CR 5 Dire Penguin in a level 3 game, you'd have all the stats of the CR 5 bird, you'd just take a -2 penalty to everything. When you finally accumulate enough experience to hit 6th level, you can take your first class level, and be a Dire Penguin 5/Fighter 1. Is that correct?

If so, then I'd say you keep the rules roughly as-is. The monster fills one side of your character until your level exceeds its CR; the other half gets to be whatever. You still take the penalty. When it comes to calculating saves and BAB and whatnot, you do as usual and compare the base save of your class with the base save of the monster and take whichever is better.

In which case you might be a Penguin 5//Fighter 3, with a -2 penalty on all rolls.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

PF doesn´t have Gestalt rules. We basically use combo-archetypes and VMC for that.

They aren't comparable. Variant Multi-Classing and combo Archetypes are supposed to be vaguely balanced with and used alongside single-class characters. Gestalt obviously isn't.

[Quertus]

There's no reason you couldn't use 3.5's gestalt rules; they are essentially the same game.

If I'm understanding this right, if you're playing, say, a CR 5 Dire Penguin in a level 3 game, you'd have all the stats of the CR 5 bird, you'd just take a -2 penalty to everything. When you finally accumulate enough experience to hit 6th level, you can take your first class level, and be a Dire Penguin 5/Fighter 1. Is that correct?

Yup, that's the way I understand it.


If so, then I'd say you keep the rules roughly as-is. The monster fills one side of your character until your level exceeds its CR; the other half gets to be whatever. You still take the penalty. When it comes to calculating saves and BAB and whatnot, you do as usual and compare the base save of your class with the base save of the monster and take whichever is better.

In which case you might be a Penguin 5//Fighter 3, with a -2 penalty on all rolls.

So, you think the penalty should apply to both sides of the Gestalt, as opposed to just the side that is "ahead"? That's the part I've been having trouble figuring out. Or, well, that's the start of my confusion, at any rate. :smalltongue: