What level sorcerer would you need to take over the world

[Hackulator]

The Game: How low of a level sorcerer can you have and still take over the world.

The Rules: The rules are highly limiting. You can use ONLY material from the PHB. No Planar Binding. Describe for me your level, important spells, and plan.

This takes place in our world, you're the only person with magic.

Normal people are mostly low level experts with standard array. If you attempt to use an ability on someone like charm person and fail, they get a very strange, uncomfortable feeling but do not know what is happening (because nobody knows magic exists...yet). This means while you can get away with failing sometimes, failing a lot will make people suspicious that something is going on and could eventually get your found out.

You don't have many hitpoints.

I'll critique your plan along with anyone else who wants to join in and majority will decide if we think you could succeed.

LEVEL CAP IS 16. What I mean by this is looking at the PHB I am confident that at level 16 with the right spell selection you could succeed, so entries should be at that level or below.

Anyone want to play?

[flappeercraft]

By level 14 you can do it with just replacing all world leaders with simulacrums. Shouldn't be that hard to do that. Preferably have some ranks in disguise to make them impossible to differentiate.

[Hackulator]

By level 14 you can do it with just replacing all world leaders with simulacrums. Shouldn't be that hard to do that. Preferably have some ranks in disguise to make them impossible to differentiate.

Simulacrum costs XP, you will constantly be getting less powerful each time you cast it. Also replacing world leaders is definitely non-trivial.

It would quickly get noticed by the many, MANY people it interacted with who got spot checks and because it wouldn't know things it needed to know. Once they pointed out the issues to others, they would see as well.

This plan would likely not work.

[Gildedragon]

Charm Person and Suggestion are probably 80% of the way to world domination
Detect Thoughts gets you almost all the way there.
Charm one's way up a power ladder (financial, bureaucratic, military). Spin saucy stories while listening to thoughts, so as to get all the possible blackmail secrets.
Scrying let's one be an inimitable spy.
Overall this has one's words be highly regarded, one has vast influence over powerful people,
So by level 10 at the latest.
And if one's plots land one in hot water: Gaseous Form out of whatever building and Alter Self to start over

[flappeercraft]

Simulacrum costs XP, you will constantly be getting less powerful each time you cast it. Also replacing world leaders is definitely non-trivial.

It would quickly get noticed by the many, MANY people it interacted with who got spot checks and because it wouldn't know things it needed to know. Once they pointed out the issues to others, they would see as well.

This plan would likely not work.

Well, by 14th level the disguise bonus a sorcerer could use for this would be decently high. 8 with ranks alone and without problem you could get 34 charisma which gets you +20 on disguise. Add a +30 competence bonus item and nobody will beat the opposed spot to notice it's not the real person. Also, about the XP there is another solution, thought bottle. Even without the thought bottle you could create a simulacrum of an Efreet and use the 3 daily wishes from the Efreet to replicate Simulacrum and you have no XP costs anymore or the material components needed.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Use Simulacrum with Eschew Materials to make a Solar. Abuse its Wish SLA until victory is achieved.

Edit: You could probably abuse Animate Dead to get an army of zombies/skeletons around level 8 or so.

[Hackulator]

Well, by 14th level the disguise bonus a sorcerer could use for this would be decently high. 8 with ranks alone and without problem you could get 34 charisma which gets you +20 on disguise. Add a +30 competence bonus item and nobody will beat the opposed spot to notice it's not the real person. Also, about the XP there is another solution, thought bottle. Even without the thought bottle you could create a simulacrum of an Efreet and use the 3 daily wishes from the Efreet to replicate Simulacrum and you have no XP costs anymore or the material components needed.

How are you getting 34 charisma with only things in the PHB?

There are also no Efreets or Solars in the PHB, and even if there were, they only get the abilities "appropriate to a creature of their hit dice" which wish would not be since they lost half their hit dice. Even if none of that was true, those things don't exist so you don't know about them.

There is also no thought bottle in the PHB.

An army of animated undead would get absolutely annihilated by modern weaponry.

[Potato_Priest]

Well, it depends what you mean by "take over the world"

I'm fairly certain I could take over the world's international transportation/shipping industry by starting a firm that used Teleportation circles to ship items instantly and cheaply. Since I'd be the only one capable of creating or destroying the circles, it'd be pretty easy to get a monopoly, using the money from small item shipping and travel profits to perform hostile/friendly takeovers of large item shipping companies as well.

Once I controlled the entire world's means of trade and civilian travel, I'd have enormous leverage with any government anywhere. I could simply threaten to not export/import their goods, to raise fares for passage to their nations and they'd pretty much have to do what I asked or face the consequences.

While I might not be the de facto ruler of the world, I'd probably be the most powerful person in it, controlling supply, demand, tourism, and travel everywhere.

That strategy is achievable at level 9 but works much better at level 13 (I could personally teleport to locations without circles to set them up much faster.)

Edit: Oops, I was using 5e rules. My bad. The strategy is probably still similar, but I don't know exactly how it would work in 3.5

[Crake]

Use Simulacrum with Eschew Materials to make a Solar. Abuse its Wish SLA until victory is achieved.

Clearly against the spirit of the contest, considering the no planar binding clause.

Dunno why nobody's mentioned dominate person yet. Telelport gets you wherever you want practically, both are 5th level spells, but a sorcerer only gets 1 at level 10, so i'd say level 11 is a definite win condition. Teleport into world leader's bedrooms at night while under the effects of greater invisibility, cast dominate person, then teleport out. Rinse and repeat on a regular basis to keep them dominated and boom, easy peasy world domination. The real question is: can we do it earlier.

Mother cyst gets you necrotic domination as a 4th level spell, but you need to be able to get close enough to touch world leaders at that point. Not impossible, since you could impersonate celebrities and shake hands, though in the event they ever underwent any kind of medical checkup, the tumor would likely be noticed and probably surgically removed, so that's not really a viable plan, though i guess you could use necrotic domination to make them refuse to go see a doctor? Invisibility also poses a problem because it presumably doesn't remove your body heat, so you would still be detectable by infra red, so you might be noticed when teleporting into the president's bedroom.

I mean, you could go emperor of mankind style and just become immortal via the wedded to history feat, then you could do it from level 1 by just accruing and amassing wealth and power over a sufficiently long time until you manage to control enough pieces from behind the scenes to effectively rule the world?

[ColorBlindNinja]

There are also no Efreets or Solars in the PHB, and even if there were, they only get the abilities "appropriate to a creature of their hit dice" which wish would not be since they lost half their hit dice. Even if none of that was true, those things don't exist so you don't know about them.

I assumed you meant core only. Also, SLAs are not dependent on HD; neither the Solar or the Efreeti Simulacrums would lose access to Wish.


An army of animated undead would get absolutely annihilated by modern weaponry.

Not going by the numbers that D20 Modern give us.

The Wight Apocalypse would be your best bet, honestly. Or take Summon Undead IV and use Shadows.

Edit:

Clearly against the spirit of the contest, considering the no planar binding clause.

Maybe. Shadows and Wights should work just fine.

[Crake]

I assumed you meant core only. Also, SLAs are not dependent on HD; neither the Solar or the Efreeti Simulacrums would lose access to Wish.



Not going by the numbers that D20 Modern give us.

The Wight Apocalypse would be your best bet, honestly. Or take Summon Undead IV and use Shadows.

Edit:


Maybe. Shadows and Wights should work just fine.

Only problem here is that undead can't be definitively controlled by a sorcerer the way a cleric can. Given enough time, one of your undead will go uncontrolled, and thus that entire section of your undead army would go rogue, likely resulting in your death. Also, it introduces a weak link, if even one of your primary undead die, whole swathes of your army go off the rails. Plus, dunno if a wight/shadow apocalypse really counts as taking over the world, so much as destroying it.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Only problem here is that undead can't be definitively controlled by a sorcerer the way a cleric can. Given enough time, one of your undead will go uncontrolled, and thus that entire section of your undead army would go rogue, likely resulting in your death. Also, it introduces a weak link, if even one of your primary undead die, whole swathes of your army go off the rails.

Maybe. What I'd do is use Command Undead on the first Shadow/Wight and keep it close by and renew the spell every so often.

In the case of a Shadow, nothing can kill it.


Plus, dunno if a wight/shadow apocalypse really counts as taking over the world, so much as destroying it.

The planet itself is just fine, I can take over once everything's dead. :smallwink: I may as well be a Lich while I'm at it.

[flappeercraft]

How are you getting 34 charisma with only things in the PHB?

There are also no Efreets or Solars in the PHB, and even if there were, they only get the abilities "appropriate to a creature of their hit dice" which wish would not be since they lost half their hit dice. Even if none of that was true, those things don't exist so you don't know about them.

There is also no thought bottle in the PHB

Crap, I thought by default it was Core not just PHB since basically all polymorph spells are out by that. The thought bottle yes not even core my bad. About the Cha 18 +5 level +5 Inherent +6 enhancement gets you 34.

About the Efreets not getting the abilities appropriate for their HD, what indicates that the wish is not appropriate for 5 HD? They are casting it at CL 12 which can't even cast wish normally so lowering it shouldn't make any difference regardless.

[Crake]

Maybe. What I'd do is use Command Undead on the first Shadow/Wight and keep it close by and renew the spell every so often.

Command undead is basically charm person for undead, and doesn't particularly give you direct control over the creature. And my point still stands, in that eventually the day will come when the shadow passes every attempt at casting command undead you have on it before the control expires, leaving you in bad shape. That and perhaps the shadow may, for one reason or another, leave your presence for longer than the duration of the spell.

Control undead on the other hand is a 7th level spell and only lasts for minutes.

Moral of the story is: Long term undead armies pretty much require rebuke undead to prevent them from backfiring in your face.

[ExLibrisMortis]

The PHB doesn't contain rules for the world, so by default, I am the world, so I'm taking over myself, and... are you suggesting I'm not in control of myself!?

But seriously, it's going to be really hard to do this without the DMG and Monster Manual. Some spells just don't make sense without the creatures they reference, including undead-creating spells. Banning polymorph/shapechange makes sense, though.

[Hackulator]

The PHB doesn't contain rules for the world, so by default, I am the world, so I'm taking over myself, and... are you suggesting I'm not in control of myself!?

But seriously, it's going to be really hard to do this without the DMG and Monster Manual. Some spells just don't make sense without the creatures they reference, including undead-creating spells. Banning polymorph/shapechange makes sense, though.

It's supposed to be really hard. Those spells are supposed to not make sense cause those are the ones that are abusable to really silly levels.

As I said, it's our real world.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Command undead is basically charm person for undead, and doesn't particularly give you direct control over the creature. And my point still stands, in that eventually the day will come when the shadow passes every attempt at casting command undead you have on it before the control expires, leaving you in bad shape. That and perhaps the shadow may, for one reason or another, leave your presence for longer than the duration of the spell.

Control undead on the other hand is a 7th level spell and only lasts for minutes.

I get what you're saying. Honestly, Command Undead should suffice nine times out of ten, but Control Undead would be better.

The type of situation you're describing would rarely come up, especially considering how many spell slots Sorcerer's have.

Edit: Command Undead lasts for days. I could just follow the Shadow around. If I'm a Lich, it can't hurt me anyway.


Moral of the story is: Long term undead armies pretty much require rebuke undead to prevent them from backfiring in your face.

If this wasn't Core only, I'd grab Divine Channeler and just turn them myself.

[Hackulator]

I want to explain why I say a 16th level sorcerer could definitely succeed, to hopefully give people a better idea of how sneaky and careful I feel you need to be. At 16th level you could cast Demand 3 times a day. This lets you plant suggestions at infinite range in almost anyone. It's also high enough level to get a saving throw that would be basically unmakable for most people. With this, combined with various other abilites, you could exert significant control over world leaders at range with no risk to yourself. This allows you to easily gain access to them for charm monster spells as well as using Demand for direct commands. In time, you should be able to reach your goal.

[AvatarVecna]

Any particular reason we're going Sorcerer specifically? I think Bard stands a pretty good chance. :smalltongue:

[ColorBlindNinja]

Any particular reason we're going Sorcerer specifically? I think Bard stands a pretty good chance. :smalltongue:

Put full ranks in Bluff and cast Glibness; the world is yours.

[Hackulator]

Any particular reason we're going Sorcerer specifically? I think Bard stands a pretty good chance. :smalltongue:

If you want to try with Bard go ahead, I think it will be harder to do it at a lower level though.


Put full ranks in Bluff and cast Glibness; the world is yours.

Go to your PHB and read bluff, it is not as good as you think it is.

[AvatarVecna]

Put full ranks in Bluff and cast Glibness; the world is yours.

Essentially. Rule the world through top-notch Social Skills. Honestly, given that real-world people tend to cap out around 6th lvl, Bard 8 probably has enough ranks and Charisma to barely even need spells to cheat.


If you want to try with Bard go ahead, I think it will be harder to do it at a lower level though.

Actually, I found a way to have my cake and eat it too. Build is coming in a few minutes...

[ColorBlindNinja]

If you want to try with Bard go ahead, I think it will be harder to do it at a lower level though.

Bards get Glibness at level 7. An Erudite Spell to Power or an Archivist could do it at level 5.

[Jay R]

Why would a high-level sorcerer want to take over the world. Ruling has no particular benefit for her magic, and uses up a lot of time that could be spent doing cool magic things.

[Hackulator]

Bards get Glibness at level 7. An Erudite Spell to Power or an Archivist could do it at level 5.

As I said, go check out the PHB, bluff is not as good as you think.

[ColorBlindNinja]

As I said, go check out the PHB, bluff is not as good as you think.

The target gets a +20 for a hard to believe bluff. Meanwhile, the Bard is rocking a +44 to the check at level 7. On average rolls, that's a total of 55.

No one is going beat that; the most they can get is 40 something.

Edit: Even if the Bard rolls a 1 and the target rolls a 20, that's still 45 VS, what, 44? Take 10, and you'll always get 54.

[Hackulator]

The target gets a +20 for a hard to believe bluff. Meanwhile, the Bard is rocking a +44 to the check at level 7. On average rolls, that's a total of 55.

No one is going beat that; the most they can get is 40 something.

Edit: Even if the Bard rolls a 1 and the target rolls a 20, that's still 45 VS, what, 44? Take 10, and you'll always get 54.

I'm talking about what you can reasonably get people to do with it. Read the description, it is very clear that there are major limits on what you can achieve.

[ColorBlindNinja]

I'm talking about what you can reasonably get people to do with it. Read the description, it is very clear that there are major limits on what you can achieve.

No, +20 on the target's Sense Motive is it. RAW, you can get people to believe anything on a high enough check.

There's a reason that Glibness is regarded as broken.

[Lorddenorstrus]

Incoming semantics argument over how Bluff and Diplomacy aren't broken. Diplomancers aren't real apparently.

Friendly PSA; they are actually that broken. Not that this will stop a pointless debate over something resolved years ago.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Incoming semantics argument over how Bluff and Diplomacy aren't broken. Diplomancers aren't real apparently.

Friendly PSA; they are actually that broken. Not that this will stop a pointless debate over something resolved years ago.

I second this PSA. Let's please not have this debate.

[Hackulator]

No, +20 on the target's Sense Motive is it. RAW, you can get people to believe anything on a high enough check.

There's a reason that Glibness is regarded as broken.

Yes because you and people like you don't read the description where it says things like "Bluff is not a suggestion spell" and "a successful bluff check indicates the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time (usually 1 round or less)." It literally says at one point that getting someone to try to tie their shoes is beyond what you can do.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Yes because you and people like you don't read the description where it says things like "Bluff is not a suggestion spell" and "a successful bluff check indicates the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time (usually 1 round or less)." It literally says at one point that getting someone to try to tie their shoes is beyond what you can do.

You skipped the part of the text that says "believes something that you want it to believe." It isn't mind control, hence the Suggestion part.

Worth noting; if you beat the target's Sense Motive check by 50, it does duplicate Suggestion.

[Thurbane]

The real world? Pretty much as soon as you get access to Dominate Person or similar. Arguably even the lowly Charm Person could achieve similar results.

Combo of (Greater) Invisibility and Teleport to get to world leaders, Dominate them, have them grant you all kinds of special authority and benefits. Same with CEOs of massive companies and other important individuals.

Every time someone speaks up "Hey, why is this guy suddenly in charge of anything?" rinse and repeat the above process.

When the Dominate effect wears off you should be firmly entrenched in enough seats of power that by the time the people you affected starting thinking "What the...?" you'll be very hard to topple.

You could launch a World War fairly easily if that suited your needs.

[Hackulator]

The real world? Pretty much as soon as you get access to Dominate Person or similar. Arguably even the lowly Charm Person could achieve similar results.

Combo of (Greater) Invisibility and Teleport to get to world leaders, Dominate them, have them grant you all kinds of special authority and benefits. Same with CEOs of massive companies and other important individuals.

Every time someone speaks up "Hey, why is this guy suddenly in charge of anything?" rinse and repeat the above process.

When the Dominate effect wears off you should be firmly entrenched in enough seats of power that by the time the people you affected starting thinking "What the...?" you'll be very hard to topple.

You could launch a World War fairly easily if that suited your needs.

Dominate person says its a DC 15 check to realize there is something screwy going on. Things would go sideways on you very quickly.

[Thurbane]

Dominate person says its a DC 15 check to realize there is something screwy going on. Things would go sideways on you very quickly.

In the real world, where you are the only one with magic? What exactly would they be able to accuse you of, much less prove?

Have a look at the antics of many real world leaders. "Something screwy" is pretty much business as usual. :smalltongue:

I didn't even mention other options you would have?

State secrets? Detect Thoughts/Clairvoyance.
Need someone rubbed out with no evidence of foul play? Phantasmal Killer.
Just imagine the sheer havoc and misdirection you could bring with a spell like Major Image.

...in a world where you are the only with magic, you're like a god compared to everyone else.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Dominate person says its a DC 15 check to realize there is something screwy going on. Things would go sideways on you very quickly.

People won't be making that check that often. Also, what will that tell them? Mind control like that doesn't exist in real life.

Edit: Ninja'd. Mostly.

[Hackulator]

People won't be making that check that often. Also, what will that tell them? Mind control like that doesn't exist in real life.

If the president starts acting like a robot, people will notice and things will get nuts. Mind control magic doesn't exist, drugging people, hypnosis and brainwashing exists enough for people to realize something is messed up.

[ColorBlindNinja]

If the president starts acting like a robot, people will notice and things will get nuts. Mind control magic doesn't exist, drugging people, hypnosis and brainwashing exists enough for people to realize something is messed up.

No matter what test they preform, they won't find anything. If they kick the guy out of office, just mind control his successor. Or better yet, use Dominate on the people who are examining the current leader and have them say everything's OK.

[Hackulator]

No matter what test they preform, they won't find anything. If they kick the guy out of office, just mind control his successor. Or better yet, use Dominate on the people who are examining the current leader and have them say everything's OK.

Yes, constantly put world leaders under obvious mind control from short range. The object was "take over the world" not "cause every intelligence and law enforcement agency in the world to put finding you as their number one option."

[ColorBlindNinja]

Yes, constantly put world leaders under obvious mind control from short range. The object was "take over the world" not "cause every intelligence and law enforcement agency in the world to put finding you as their number one option."

Short range? The Sorcerer should be able to Teleport by now.

Also, no one's ever going to find her. In addition to teleportation, she can turn invisible and sleeps via Rope Trick.

Edit: How would they know someone was even responsible anyway?

Edit: Also, still accomplishes world domination.

[Deadline]

If the president starts acting like a robot, people will notice and things will get nuts. Mind control magic doesn't exist, drugging people, hypnosis and brainwashing exists enough for people to realize something is messed up.

I ... I don't mean to alarm you, but you may want to turn on a television and actually see what is happening in the real world with real world political leaders. :smalltongue:

[ColorBlindNinja]

I ... I don't mean to alarm you, but you may want to turn on a television and actually see what is happening in the real world with real world political leaders. :smalltongue:

I for one, welcome our Sorcerer overlord. :smallwink:

Edit: Maxing out Disguise and replacing an important leader could work too.

[Thurbane]

Yes, constantly put world leaders under obvious mind control from short range. The object was "take over the world" not "cause every intelligence and law enforcement agency in the world to put finding you as their number one option."

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

PS neither myself nor anyone else mentioned anything about having them "act like a robot". I'm not going into real world politics as it's forbidden by forum rules, but world leaders mysteriously appointing unqualified and unknown individuals to posts of importance is an extremely common occurrence. Or that CEO to transfer billions into your private bank account.

You've obviously used "OP fiat" to say "nope, doesn't work like that".

Even though myself and others feel it would. So I'll leave you guys to come up with other options.

[Hackulator]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

PS neither myself nor anyone else mentioned anything about having them "act like a robot". I'm not going into real world politics as it's forbidden by forum rules, but world leaders mysteriously appointing unqualified and unknown individuals to posts of importance is an extremely common occurrence. Or that CEO to transfer billions into your private bank account.

You've obviously used "OP fiat" to say "nope, doesn't work like that".

Even though myself and others feel it would. So I'll leave you guys to come up with other options.

This is how I interpret the "easy DC check to tell they are being controlled" which is part of the RAW. Obviously "act like a robot" was a simile, but the idea is there and part of the spell. World leaders interact with huge numbers of people, at least 25% of whom would make that check to notice something was amiss. I feel like part of the reason why people think a lot of things in 3.5 are broken is because they like to just handwave built in limits they don't like.

[ColorBlindNinja]

This is how I interpret the "easy DC check to tell they are being controlled" which is part of the RAW. Obviously "act like a robot" was a simile, but the idea is there and part of the spell. World leaders interact with huge numbers of people, at least 25% of whom would make that check to notice something was amiss. I feel like part of the reason why people think a lot of things in 3.5 are broken is because they like to just handwave built in limits they don't like.

No, people think a lot of things in 3.5 are broken because they are. It's not that easy of a check. On average rolls, most people wouldn't notice.

[Thurbane]

This is how I interpret the "easy DC check to tell they are being controlled" which is part of the RAW. Obviously "act like a robot" was a simile, but the idea is there and part of the spell. World leaders interact with huge numbers of people, at least 25% of whom would make that check to notice something was amiss. I feel like part of the reason why people think a lot of things in 3.5 are broken is because they like to just handwave built in limits they don't like.

I fully appreciate your point, but honestly, as I and others have commented, take a look at real world events. There's a LOT of shady or outright illegal things that are suspected to be going, but without evidence, they basically remain conspiracy theories.


Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather than DC 25) can determine that the subject’s behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive skill description).

...bolding mine. In a world where magic, as far as everyone else is concerned, simply does not exist, what will that check actually reveal?

"Excuse me Sir, I can't help but notice someone is using some kind of mind control magic on you."
"Security, have this man detained and taken to a mental health facility"

...like I said, there's plenty of other options:

Suggestion and Charm can be a lot more subtle than Dominate.

I still think a combo of Enchantment, Illusion and Divination spells would be by far the most effective way to become ruler of this world. The people with most wealth already more or less have de-facto control of most of what happens: magic would make accumulating mind-boggling amounts of wealth trivially easy, where no one else has magical defenses against you.

Your information gathering techniques would be unrivalled (Clairvoyance/Detect Thoughts/Scrying/Arcane Eye). Information is power. Even if you don't dominate world leaders, you could easily maneuver them by blackmail, after unearthing their deepest secrets. And when they send hit men/black ops to get rid of you, you have defenses they are not equipped to overcome. The fact that you are the only one with magic in the world means anything short of a full military strike against you is doomed to failure. If a 20th level Monk or Fighter can't take you out, what hope do a bunch of low level Warriors with guns have?

Sure, they could have your poisoned or leave a bomb in your house, but one would assume that if you are trying to enslave a planet, you have taken some basic magical precautions against being tracked down.

...anyway, I've said my piece. Thanks for listening. :smallsmile:

[ColorBlindNinja]

I fully appreciate your point, but honestly, as I and others have commented, take a look at real world events. There's a LOT of shady or outright illegal things that are suspected to be going, but without evidence, they basically remain conspiracy theories.



...bolding mine. In a world where magic, as far as everyone else is concerned, simply does not exist, what will that check actually reveal?

"Excuse me Sir, I can't help but notice someone is using some kind of mind control magic on you."
"Security, have this man detained and taken to a mental health facility"

...like I said, there's plenty of other options:

Suggestion and Charm can be a lot more subtle than Dominate.

I still think a combo of Enchantment, Illusion and Divination spells would be by far the most effective way to become ruler of this world. The people with most wealth already more or less have de-facto control of most of what happens: magic would make accumulating mind-boggling amounts of wealth trivially easy, where no one else has magical defenses against you.

Your information gathering techniques would be unrivalled (Clairvoyance/Detect Thoughts/Scrying/Arcane Eye). Information is power. Even if you don't dominate world leaders, you could easily maneuver them by blackmail, after unearthing their deepest secrets. And when they send hit men/black ops to get rid of you, you have defenses they are not equipped to overcome. The fact that you are the only one with magic in the world means anything short of a full military strike against you is doomed to failure. If a 20th level Monk or Fighter can't take you out, what hope do a bunch of low level Warriors with guns have?

Sure, they could have your poisoned or leave a bomb in your house, but one would assume that if you are trying to enslave a planet, you have taken some basic magical precautions against being tracked down.

...anyway, I've said my piece. Thanks for listening. :smallsmile:

I agree 100%. Between spells like Clone and Rope Trick, an intelligently played Sorcerer is nigh unstoppable. The only thing that would make this better would be access to all the other books.

[AvatarVecna]

So, the thing I'm thinking is that "Ruling The World" would probably be a dreary, thankless job. It's much better to set up some loyal pawn to take the job that involves speeches and paperwork, leaving my Main Man Sorcerer to go globetrotting and have daring adventures of espionage and whatnot.

Middle-Aged Elf Sorcerer 10
Stats (Lvl 1 Pre-Bonuses/Penalties): 9/13/13/13/11/17
Stats (Lvl 10 w/o Items): 8/14/10/14/12/20
Stats (w/ Items): 8/12/14/14/12/24
Skill Ranks: Bluff 13 (+18)/Concentration 13 (+14)/Disguise 6 (+11)/Listen 4 (+7)/Spot 3 (+6)
Feats: Eschew Materials (Sorcerer 1), Spell Focus: Enchantment (HD 1), Silent Spell (HD 3), Leadership: Lord Buckethead and small army of political assistants (HD 6), Still Spell (HD 9)
Items: Cloak Of Charisma +4 (16000), Bag Of Holding Type II (5000), Cloak Of Charisma +2 (4000, gifted to Front Man), Circlet Of Persuasion (4500, gifted to Front Man), +2 Light Fortification Chain Shirt (9250, gifted to Front Man)



Level
Per Day
Known


0th
6
Acid Splash
Detect Poison
Dancing Lights
Ghost Sound
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Arcane Mark
Prestidigitation


1st
8
Charm Person
Hypnotism
Sleep
Disguise Self
Silent Image


2nd
8
Hypnotic Pattern
Invisibility
Alter Self
Spider Climb


3rd
8
Tongues
Suggestion
Fireball



4th
6
Scrying
Phantasmal Killer


5th
4
Teleport



https://i.imgflip.com/1rt6kt.jpg

Middle-Aged Human Bard 8
Stats (Lvl 1 Pre-Bonuses/Penalties): 9/9/9/17/11/17
Stats (Lvl 8 w/o Items): 8/8/8/18/12/20
Stats (w/ Items): 8/8/8/18/12/22
Skills: Bluff 11 (+22), Concentration 11 (+10), Diplomacy 11 (+30), Gather Information 11 (+21), Knowledge (Local) 11 (+15), Knowledge (History) 11 (+15), Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) 11 (+15), Perform (Oratory) 11 (+22), Profession 11 (+12), Sense Motive 11 (+17), Speak Language 11
Feats: Skill Focus: Skill Focus: Diplomacy (HD 1), Negotiator (Human), Skill Focus: Perform Oratory (HD 3), Skill Focus: Sense Motive (HD 6), Skill Focus: Bluff (HD 9)

Your sorcerer Palpatine will ally with Lord Buckethead, granting him magic item to replace his existing outfit (tailored to look as it used to). While Lord Buckethead becomes a politician of the people, debating and gaining votes and talking about the issues. Meanwhile, Palpatine will go around either impersonating world leaders in public places before vanishing away, creating a great deal of misinformation and controversy surrounding all of Lord Buckethead's political opponents. Occasionally, Palpatine will Scry a world leader who can't be turned to Lord Buckethead's side of things in the long-term, and either Fireballs them, Phantasmal Killers them, or Charm Persons them into his Bag Of Holding and Teleports them to somewhere remote to either leave them to die, or suffocate them. Bonus points if instead of somewhere remote, you 'port the world leader into a prison or something of their international enemies or political rivals.

Lord Buckethead, per the rules in the OP, cannot use magic, but who cares? The man's probably one of the most capable politicians in the world. Just have your followers all be social experts similar to Buckethead, and have all of them working towards getting Lord Buckethead elected.

This plan will likely need to be long-term, from the elf's point of view. You're gonna spend the next few decades establishing Lord Buckethead as the leader of the world one bit at a time, starting with his country of origin and gradually expanding when the leadership of the other countries are fighting amongst themselves due to decades worth of paranoia fuel in the form of their leaders being places and doing things that they can't explain believably.

Not exactly a standard D&D game, and it would take awhile in-game, but this would be a pretty interesting political intrigue kind of game - no mind-controlling my opponents, no magical BS on his part, just a highly capable politician in a world where country leaders get disappeared, kidnapped, or murdered frequently.

[ColorBlindNinja]

So, the thing I'm thinking is that "Ruling The World" would probably be a dreary, thankless job. It's much better to set up some loyal pawn to take the job that involves speeches and paperwork, leaving my Main Man Sorcerer to go globetrotting and have daring adventures of espionage and whatnot.

Middle-Aged Elf Sorcerer 10
Stats (Lvl 1 Pre-Bonuses/Penalties): 9/13/13/13/11/17
Stats (Lvl 10 w/o Items): 8/14/10/14/12/20
Stats (w/ Items): 8/12/14/14/12/24
Skill Ranks: Bluff 13 (+18)/Concentration 13 (+14)/Disguise 6 (+11)/Listen 4 (+7)/Spot 3 (+6)
Feats: Eschew Materials (Sorcerer 1), Spell Focus: Enchantment (HD 1), Silent Spell (HD 3), Leadership: Lord Buckethead and small army of political assistants (HD 6), Still Spell (HD 9)
Items: Cloak Of Charisma +4 (16000), Bag Of Holding Type II (5000), Cloak Of Charisma +2 (4000, gifted to Front Man), Circlet Of Persuasion (4500, gifted to Front Man), +2 Light Fortification Chain Shirt (9250, gifted to Front Man)



Level
Per Day
Known


0th
6
Acid Splash
Detect Poison
Dancing Lights
Ghost Sound
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Arcane Mark
Prestidigitation


1st
8
Charm Person
Hypnotism
Sleep
Disguise Self
Silent Image


2nd
8
Hypnotic Pattern
Invisibility
Alter Self
Spider Climb


3rd
8
Tongues
Suggestion
Fireball



4th
6
Scrying
Phantasmal Killer


5th
4
Teleport



https://i.imgflip.com/1rt6kt.jpg

Middle-Aged Human Bard 8
Stats (Lvl 1 Pre-Bonuses/Penalties): 9/9/9/17/11/17
Stats (Lvl 8 w/o Items): 8/8/8/18/12/20
Stats (w/ Items): 8/8/8/18/12/22
Skills: Bluff 11 (+22), Concentration 11 (+10), Diplomacy 11 (+30), Gather Information 11 (+21), Knowledge (Local) 11 (+15), Knowledge (History) 11 (+15), Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) 11 (+15), Perform (Oratory) 11 (+22), Profession 11 (+12), Sense Motive 11 (+17), Speak Language 11
Feats: Skill Focus: Skill Focus: Diplomacy (HD 1), Negotiator (Human), Skill Focus: Perform Oratory (HD 3), Skill Focus: Sense Motive (HD 6), Skill Focus: Bluff (HD 9)

Your sorcerer Palpatine will ally with Lord Buckethead, granting him magic item to replace his existing outfit (tailored to look as it used to). While Lord Buckethead becomes a politician of the people, debating and gaining votes and talking about the issues. Meanwhile, Palpatine will go around either impersonating world leaders in public places before vanishing away, creating a great deal of misinformation and controversy surrounding all of Lord Buckethead's political opponents. Occasionally, Palpatine will Scry a world leader who can't be turned to Lord Buckethead's side of things in the long-term, and either Fireballs them, Phantasmal Killers them, or Charm Persons them into his Bag Of Holding and Teleports them to somewhere remote to either leave them to die, or suffocate them. Bonus points if instead of somewhere remote, you 'port the world leader into a prison or something of their international enemies or political rivals.

Lord Buckethead, per the rules in the OP, cannot use magic, but who cares? The man's probably one of the most capable politicians in the world. Just have your followers all be social experts similar to Buckethead, and have all of them working towards getting Lord Buckethead elected.

This plan will likely need to be long-term, from the elf's point of view. You're gonna spend the next few decades establishing Lord Buckethead as the leader of the world one bit at a time, starting with his country of origin and gradually expanding when the leadership of the other countries are fighting amongst themselves due to decades worth of paranoia fuel in the form of their leaders being places and doing things that they can't explain believably.

Not exactly a standard D&D game, and it would take awhile in-game, but this would be a pretty interesting political intrigue kind of game - no mind-controlling my opponents, no magical BS on his part, just a highly capable politician in a world where country leaders get disappeared, kidnapped, or murdered frequently.

I like it. Lord Buckethead is great name. :smallsmile:

[AvatarVecna]

I like it. Lord Buckethead is great name. :smallsmile:

I do want to clarify that Lord Buckethead is the only part of that build that I didn't make up myself. Lord Buckethead is, and apparently has been for some time, an "joke vote" politician running in the UK, and from what I've seen of him seems to have a good head on his shoulders (underneath the bucket, of course).

[ColorBlindNinja]

I do want to clarify that Lord Buckethead is the only part of that build that I didn't make up myself. Lord Buckethead is, and apparently has been for some time, an "joke vote" politician running in the UK, and from what I've seen of him seems to have a good head on his shoulders (underneath the bucket, of course).

He gets my vote. :smallwink:

[AvatarVecna]

He gets my vote. :smallwink:

I for one welcome our alien overlord. :smallcool:

[ExLibrisMortis]

The UK has a long history of joke parties. This is a real party, the Official Monster Raving Loony party:
http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/styles/nodeimage/public/blogs_2014/12/98629010.jpg?itok=blpVK8is
Their 'Manicfesto' mentions, amongst others, the following policies:
1) We will feed the Welsh dragon as its looking a bit thin due to government cuts.
2) We will try to find a breeding pair of dragons as the Welsh Dragon is an endangered species.
3) We will Report the Welsh dragon to the monopolies commission (there is only One).
4) In the Interests of national security we will ban all Leeks from the Welsh Assembly canteen.
5) We will get rid of Trident [nuclear missiles] and replace it with a new Tuning Fork.
6) All University Tuition fees for women would be free as we are strong believers in Female intuition. (Due to gender equality laws we would include males as well)

Yes, these people stand for parliament. They get votes, too - thousands - but they have yet to win seats.

This is a parody from Blackadder, the Standing at the Back Dressed Stupidly and Looking Stupid party. It's an older show, image quality isn't great. Note it is set in Regency times (early 19th century).
https://68.media.tumblr.com/c0c727cd388d5cbcbbc7c659cb513d72/tumblr_n9us2lWv651qao1lqo1_500.jpg
This guy is has three policies mentioned in the episode:
1) Compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast.
2) Free corsets for the under-fives.
3) Abolishment of slavery (to which the commentator responds with ridicule, while the asparagus point is appreciated).


Really shows you it's impossible to parody a real political party when said party is a parody itself.

[Hackulator]

I cut out a bunch from the quoted posts cause otherwise this post would be too long


I fully appreciate your point, but honestly, as I and others have commented, take a look at real world events. There's a LOT of shady or outright illegal things that are suspected to be going, but without evidence, they basically remain conspiracy theories.


...anyway, I've said my piece. Thanks for listening. :smallsmile:

Yeah, there are options, all I mean is "continuously using Dominate Person" isn't enough of a strategy to work. If I really wanted to make a RAW argument, as you point out, by RAW the world learns magic exists when that plan gets screwed up and that's REAL bad lol.


So, the thing I'm thinking is that "Ruling The World" would probably be a dreary, thankless job. It's much better to set up some loyal pawn to take the job that involves speeches and paperwork, leaving my Main Man Sorcerer to go globetrotting and have daring adventures of espionage and whatnot.

SNIP

Not exactly a standard D&D game, and it would take awhile in-game, but this would be a pretty interesting political intrigue kind of game - no mind-controlling my opponents, no magical BS on his part, just a highly capable politician in a world where country leaders get disappeared, kidnapped, or murdered frequently.

This plan has a good shot, especially with you flying around murdering people, except for the fact that you can;t have a Bard as I said ONLY you have magic. However, you can certainly hunt down an Expert with high charisma and diplomacy, which is what would be the important part of your plan. Having your own face man gives you additional ability to do things, and if he gets in trouble you can always abandon him and get a new patsy. You can't actually have magic items (they're not in the PHB) however I don't think any of the items were make or break, though they would make things more easy.

[Pleh]

This plan has a good shot, especially with you flying around murdering people, except for the fact that you can;t have a Bard as I said ONLY you have magic. However, you can certainly hunt down an Expert with high charisma and diplomacy, which is what would be the important part of your plan. Having your own face man gives you additional ability to do things, and if he gets in trouble you can always abandon him and get a new patsy. You can't actually have magic items (they're not in the PHB) however I don't think any of the items were make or break, though they would make things more easy.

Actually, the item creation feats ARE in the PHB. Should be fair game to build a sorcerer who thinks he's an artificer.

Anyone thought about abusing the crafting rules and building the world's most dangerous hacking computer?

[ColorBlindNinja]

Actually, the item creation feats ARE in the PHB. Should be fair game to build a sorcerer who thinks he's an artificer.

Anyone thought about abusing the crafting rules and building the world's most dangerous hacking computer?

I'm pretty sure Hackulator's saying that magic items themselves aren't in the PHB, therefore you can't have them.

[Hackulator]

I'm pretty sure Hackulator's saying that magic items themselves aren't in the PHB, therefore you can't have them.

Yeah purely because magic items, when used properly, can bypass almost any other limitation I would set. The idea is that the challenge should not be simple.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Yeah purely because magic items, when used properly, can bypass almost any other limitation I would set. The idea is that the challenge should not be simple.

Why? It's seems rather arbitrary to pit a Sorcerer against Earth, but ban so many options.

Edit: If you wanted a more complex challenge, you should have picked a less powerful class.

[RoboEmperor]

Level 1. Charm Person and Scholar's touch.

In the real world, people are being elected as president without magic. What humongous advantage would you have when you are the only person in the world with mind-control magic?

Charm People into giving you donations. Charm people into giving you endorsement. Charm people into doing whatever you want.

Scholar's touch lets you memorize entire textbooks about everything, making you a master of everything, be it science, engineering, language arts, etc.

Once you're president of the united states, charm world leaders into doing what you want.

If you can't take over the world with the above two spells, you don't deserve to use magic in the real world.

edit: Scholar's touch is not PHB, so I guess replace it with Disguise Self, comprehend languages, or unseen servant.

[Calthropstu]

How are you getting 34 charisma with only things in the PHB?

There are also no Efreets or Solars in the PHB, and even if there were, they only get the abilities "appropriate to a creature of their hit dice" which wish would not be since they lost half their hit dice. Even if none of that was true, those things don't exist so you don't know about them.

There is also no thought bottle in the PHB.

An army of animated undead would get absolutely annihilated by modern weaponry.

Base 18, +2 racial, +3 from level, +6 from item, +5 from tome/wishes nets you 34.
If you deduct the item, it's still 28.

[Calthropstu]

I am going to perform an alternate method of taking over the world. Lvl 14, using teleport without error +invisibility +silence.
Steal the world's nuclear arsenal.

[ColorBlindNinja]

I am going to perform an alternate method of taking over the world. Lvl 14, using teleport without error +invisibility +silence.
Steal the world's nuclear arsenal.


Steal the world's nuclear arsenal? You are a nuclear arsenal.

11th level.

Teleport to Antarctica. Cast Resilient Sphere. Cast Major Creation to conjure 11 feet^3 of uranium-235 to cause a 104 megaton explosion. Cast Invisibility and Overland Flight onto yourself. Teleport into the United Nations General Assembly. Cast Minor Image to produce an illusion that lists your demands, then explains to the world's leaders that failing to obey you will result in their capitals, metropolitan areas, and military bases being obliterated. Sneak off, then cast Rope Trick a few times to prepare for the next day.

Should a nation's leaders disobey, or publicly declare resistance to you, go and produce an illusion in a similar manner within their capitals, and express to their citizens that they have 24 hours to strip those leaders of their authority. If they fail to depose them after that time, decimate the capital with Major Creation.

I imagine the world would be bowing down to you in less than a year.

It's worth noting that according to D20 Future, a 1 megaton nuke deals 16D8 damage.

I like the idea, though.

[Hackulator]

Steal the world's nuclear arsenal? You are a nuclear arsenal.

11th level.

Teleport to Antarctica. Cast Resilient Sphere. Cast Major Creation to conjure 11 feet^3 of uranium-235 to cause a 104 megaton explosion. Cast Invisibility and Overland Flight onto yourself. Teleport into the United Nations General Assembly. Cast Minor Image to produce an illusion that lists your demands, then explains to the world's leaders that failing to obey you will result in their capitals, metropolitan areas, and military bases being obliterated. Sneak off, then cast Rope Trick a few times to prepare for the next day.

Should a nation's leaders disobey, or publicly declare resistance to you, go and produce an illusion in a similar manner within their capitals, and express to their citizens that they have 24 hours to strip those leaders of their authority. If they fail to depose them after that time, decimate the capital with Major Creation.

I imagine the world would be bowing down to you in less than a year.

I am not sure you have the requisite skills to create a nuclear bomb.

Every agency in the world is now hunting you down 24 hours a day.

If you slip up you're gonna take a bullet to the dome. You have to be perfectly on guard all the time. Due to your actions at the UN, they likely know you have advanced tech (that is likely what people would think instead of magic) so they are trying to counter your abilities.

You're also doing a lot of blind teleports.

This plan is very risky, but could work. If you don't overdo it and cause a nuclear winter.

[ColorBlindNinja]

I am not sure you have the requisite skills to create a nuclear bomb.

Every agency in the world is now hunting you down 24 hours a day.

If you slip up you're gonna take a bullet to the dome. You have to be perfectly on guard all the time. Due to your actions at the UN, they likely know you have advanced tech (that is likely what people would think instead of magic) so they are trying to counter your abilities.

You're also doing a lot of blind teleports.

This plan is very risky, but could work. If you don't overdo it and cause a nuclear winter.

Scrying helps with the teleportation. Why should the Sorcerer care if everyone's after her? If she plays her cards right, no one even knows what she looks like, and she sleeps via Rope Trick at night in Antarctica.

[Thisguy_]

I scrolled briefly through the thread and saw a load of people suggesting 10th+ level. I insist, however, that a clever enough sorceror could swing 3rd level. It is by this point that Suggestion, Charm Person, and Alter Self are all available. You are anyone, everyone you've got the spell slots for is a fan of yours, and you may add desires to their respective private lists which they will regard as their own? What a way to find oneself on top of the world.

[Hackulator]

Scrying helps with the teleportation. Why should the Sorcerer care if everyone's after her? If she plays her cards right, no one even knows what she looks like, and she sleeps via Rope Trick at night in Antarctica.

You should care if everyone is after you because nobody can stay on guard with no slip ups 24 hours a day all the time. Talk to the wrong person, go to the wrong place, there are lots of things that can go wrong

Remember you're still a person, not a robot.

[ColorBlindNinja]

You should care if everyone is after you because nobody can stay on guard with no slip ups 24 hours a day all the time. Talk to the wrong person, go to the wrong place, there are lots of things that can go wrong

Remember you're still a person, not a robot.

I'm also superhumanly charismatic and can use magic to change my appearance.

Edit: Even better, disguise yourself as a prominent politician and frame them for your misdeeds.

[Thurbane]

32 point buy, Human Sorcerer 10.

Str 10 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 18 (+1 at 4th, +1 at 8th)

Skill ranks:

Bluff 13
Concentration 9
Tumble 5
Diplomacy 5
Disguise 5

Bluff checks at +23 (on a natural 20 Sense Motive check, anyone with less than 16 Wis can't tell you're bluffing even when you roll a natural 1, before situational modifiers).

Feats:
H Improved Initiative
1 Eschew Materials
3 Silent Spell
6 Still Spell
9 Extend Spell

Familiar: Snake

Spells

0
Acid Splash (when you need someone rubbed out, but don't want to blow a 4th level slot on Phantasmal Killer; will probably need multiple castings. Also, nice for the intimidation value)
Daze (just stand there for a little, would you?)
Detect Poison (check your meals, just in case)
Ghost Sound (when you need a little misdirection, and you don't want to blow a 3rd level slot on Major Image)
Mage Hand (a million and one uses, specially when it's Silent and Still)
Message (utility)
Open/Close (utility)
Touch of Fatigue (meh, I've got 9 slots to fill here)
Prestidigitation (the little Wish)

1
Charm Person (hey buddy, can you do me a solid?)
Disguise Self (+10 untyped bonus stacks with Alter Self; even their mother wouldn't know the difference; with Detect Thoughts, I know the answers to any question you might ask me; also, massive Bluff check, remember? With this and Alter Self up, +32 Disguise check to impersonate someone)
Expeditious Retreat (exit, stage left)
Obscuring Mist (where did this fog come from? Also masks your casting: Invisibility, Alter Self, Teleport etc.)
Sleep (nighty night)

2
Alter Self (I can be anyone; if MM is allowed, my snake can be a 5 headed hydra, too) or just rely on Disguise Self, and take Protection from Arrows, too (bulletproof, or at least, bullet resistant)
Detect Thoughts (I know what you did last summer)
Invisibility (you can't see me)
Rope Trick (I am untouchable)

3
Major Image (I can frame you for murder; I can trick your own guards into shooting you; I can fool people into believing just about anything)
Suggestion (I suggest you transfer me a few billion dollars, thanks; oh, and I suggest you appoint me as second in command)
Tongues (I can understand and speak to everyone, including when I use Charm Person and Suggestion; and for when I'm impersonating a world leader)

4
Phantasmal Killer (aka death by seemingly natural causes)
Scrying (I know top secret stuff)

5
Teleport (I can be anywhere in the world in an instant)


...could probably use some tweaking, but that's my chassis for world domination. Maybe at 11th, pick up Dominate Person, Greater Invisibility, Fly and Eagle's Splendor).

[ColorBlindNinja]

32 point buy, Human Sorcerer 10.

Str 10 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 18 (+1 at 4th, +1 at 8th)

Skill ranks:

Bluff 13
Concentration 9
Tumble 5
Diplomacy 5
Disguise 5

Bluff checks at +23 (on a natural 20 Sense Motive check, anyone with less than 16 Wis can't tell you're bluffing even when you roll a natural 1, before situational modifiers).

Feats:
H Improved Initiative
1 Eschew Materials
3 Silent Spell
6 Still Spell
9 Extend Spell

Familiar: Snake

Spells

0
Acid Splash (when you need someone rubbed out, but don't want to blow a 4th level slot on Phantasmal Killer; will probably need multiple castings. Also, nice for the intimidation value)
Daze (just stand there for a little, would you?)
Detect Poison (check your meals, just in case)
Ghost Sound (when you need a little misdirection, and you don't want to blow a 3rd level slot on Major Image)
Mage Hand (a million and one uses, specially when it's Silent and Still)
Message (utility)
Open/Close (utility)
Touch of Fatigue (meh, I've got 9 slots to fill here)
Prestidigitation (the little Wish)

1
Charm Person (hey buddy, can you do me a solid?)
Disguise Self (+10 untyped bonus stacks with Alter Self; even their mother wouldn't know the difference; with Detect Thoughts, I know the answers to any question you might ask me; also, massive Bluff check, remember? With this and Alter Self up, +32 Disguise check to impersonate someone)
Expeditious Retreat (exit, stage left)
Obscuring Mist (where did this fog come from? Also masks your casting: Invisibility, Alter Self, Teleport etc.)
Sleep (nighty night)

2
Alter Self (I can be anyone; if MM is allowed, my snake can be a 5 headed hydra, too) or just rely on Disguise Self, and take Protection from Arrows, too (bulletproof, or at least, bullet resistant)
Detect Thoughts (I know what you did last summer)
Invisibility (you can't see me)
Rope Trick (I am untouchable)

3
Major Image (I can frame you for murder; I can trick your own guards into shooting you; I can fool people into believing just about anything)
Suggestion (I suggest you transfer me a few billion dollars, thanks; oh, and I suggest you appoint me as second in command)
Tongues (I can understand and speak to everyone, including when I use Charm Person and Suggestion; and for when I'm impersonating a world leader)

4
Phantasmal Killer (aka death by seemingly natural causes)
Scrying (I know top secret stuff)

5
Teleport (I can be anywhere in the world in an instant)


...could probably use some tweaking, but that's my chassis for world domination. Maybe at 11th, pick up Dominate Person, Greater Invisibility, Fly and Eagle's Splendor).




Looks pretty good. But, your snake familiar is too small for Alter Self to turn it into a Hydra (they're huge).

I'm pretty confident that this Sorcerer could take over the world if played right.

[Thurbane]

Looks pretty good. But, your snake familiar is too small for Alter Self to turn it into a Hydra (they're huge).

Ah, good point. Maybe Shocker Lizard or Cockatrice, then.


I'm pretty confident that this Sorcerer could take over the world if played right.

Cheers. :smallsmile:

[boomwolf]

You know what?
A level 1 sorcerer is enough. all you need is at least 11 charisma (to cast any spells), and a spell that is very, VERY obviously magical spell.

Because you are in a world where magic isn't a thing, you are the first, and only, spellcaster ever.

And people fall into charlatan's hands in the real world as some sort of religious prophets.

Burning hands? magic missile? summon monster I? feather fall?

With a few ranks in bluff, any of these, and you are the messiah, given powers by god-you will QUICKLY gain power and influence, because if anyone steps against you, you play the "i can freely preform miracles" card, and nobody can argue with you, becuase as much as they try (and you freely let them), they cant even have a grasp of how on earth you are doing it.


So gather support, until eventually enough of the world's power structure falls into your hand to take over. ("redemption will come only once all of humanity will truly and honestly accept the word of god", you can easily keep this act forever, real world religions do it with less.)

At level 6 when you can outright fly it gets easier. nothing sells "divine" more than unassisted flying.

[ColorBlindNinja]

You know what?
A level 1 sorcerer is enough. all you need is at least 11 charisma (to cast any spells), and a spell that is very, VERY obviously magical spell.

Because you are in a world where magic isn't a thing, you are the first, and only, spellcaster ever.

And people fall into charlatan's hands in the real world as some sort of religious prophets.

Burning hands? magic missile? summon monster I? feather fall?

With a few ranks in bluff, any of these, and you are the messiah, given powers by god-you will QUICKLY gain power and influence, because if anyone steps against you, you play the "i can freely preform miracles" card, and nobody can argue with you, becuase as much as they try (and you freely let them), they cant even have a grasp of how on earth you are doing it.


So gather support, until eventually enough of the world's power structure falls into your hand to take over. ("redemption will come only once all of humanity will truly and honestly accept the word of god", you can easily keep this act forever, real world religions do it with less.)

At level 6 when you can outright fly it gets easier. nothing sells "divine" more than unassisted flying.

I'd like to think that humanity is too smart for that, but I'd be lying to myself. :smallfrown:

[ColorBlindNinja]

And according to d20 Apocalypse, a 1 megaton nuke vaporizes everything within 1500 feet, and kills almost everyone within 1 mile, but neither fall under the scope of this thread, unfortunately.

I remember D20 Apocalypse being pretty vague about that. Do you recall what page that was on?

[ColorBlindNinja]

I don't know, sorry. I do know it goes a bit in depth on the destructive ranges for various weapons, and think it goes up to 100 megaton bombs.

I'll see what I can find.

Edit: The closest I found was a table detailing how widespread the damage is from nuclear weapons.

The largest nuke on the table is 10 megatons, and D20 Apocalypse said that the table is intended as a guideline.

If I'm not mistaken, that would mean that D20 Future's rules take precedent.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Except neither source fits within the scope of this scenario, so nothing is really changed.

Why not? Granted, this is fairly minor issue, but I am curious about your reasoning.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Just trying to follow the rules of the scenario, really.

Right, only PHB. :smallsigh:

[ColorBlindNinja]

Would you have preferred armies of invisible Shadesteel Golems wearing Invisifinder Goggles and riding Autodyn Hoverboards, while carrying Bags of Holding filled with human soldiers holding Bottles of Air and Laser Rifles?

:smalltongue:

Yes, that would be glorious. :smallsmile:

[ColorBlindNinja]

Then I'm sure this forum can whip up a rather wacky-awesome setting loosely based off this thread's premise, after a few discussion and worldbuilding threads.

Sounds like a plan. Shall I create a new thread on this topic?

[Hackulator]

If you are just creating Uranium, then you can't blow things up, that is not how Uranium works.

If you want an actual Bomb, you need the requisite skills per the description of the creation spells.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Sure. :smallsmile:

Done. I used a Wizard instead of a Sorcerer, mostly because they get more spells.


If you are just creating Uranium, then you can't blow things up, that is not how Uranium works.

If you want an actual Bomb, you need the requisite skills per the description of the creation spells.

Or you could just summon antimatter and use Contingency to escape.

[Hackulator]

Done. I used a Wizard instead of a Sorcerer, mostly because they get more spells.



Or you could just summon antimatter and use Contingency to escape.

I would say that antimatter falls outside the range of what a "mineral" is. Arguable though. You better have some serious skills to figure out the math though or you'll end up blowing up the whole planet.

[ColorBlindNinja]

I would say that antimatter falls outside the range of what a "mineral" is. Arguable though. You better have some serious skills to figure out the math though or you'll end up blowing up the whole planet.

Just pick some type of anti matter that equates to a mineral.

I bet you could find the calculations online if you looked, the Sorcerer could just stop by the library.

[Nifft]

The build isn't that important. Anima Mage, Incantatrix, there are a lot of ways to get what I need -- the important thing here is that I can cast a Persistent Aspect of the Chromatic Dragon (DrMagic, p.64) at least once per day.

Then, I initiate a public campaign to be elected the President of the World.

"I am literally a five-headed dragon. So what? Vote Nifft."

There's no need for duplicity.

Not when I'm a dragon.

[ColorBlindNinja]

The build isn't that important. Anima Mage, Incantatrix, there are a lot of ways to get what I need -- the important thing here is that I can cast a Persistent Aspect of the Chromatic Dragon (DrMagic, p.64) at least once per day.

Then, I initiate a public campaign to be elected the President of the World.

"I am literally a five-headed dragon. So what? Vote Nifft."

There's no need for duplicity.

Not when I'm a dragon.

The OP wants us to use the PHB only. That doesn't just mean core only, it means no MM or DMG.

[Calthropstu]

Steal the world's nuclear arsenal? You are a nuclear arsenal.

11th level.

Teleport to Antarctica. Cast Resilient Sphere. Cast Major Creation to conjure 11 feet^3 of uranium-235 to cause a 104 megaton explosion. Cast Invisibility and Overland Flight onto yourself. Teleport into the United Nations General Assembly. Cast Minor Image to produce an illusion that lists your demands, then explains to the world's leaders that failing to obey you will result in their capitals, metropolitan areas, and military bases being obliterated. Sneak off, then cast Rope Trick a few times to prepare for the next day.

Should a nation's leaders disobey, or publicly declare resistance to you, go and produce an illusion in a similar manner within their capitals, and express to their citizens that they have 24 hours to strip those leaders of their authority. If they fail to depose them after that time, decimate the capital with Major Creation.

I imagine the world would be bowing down to you in less than a year.

If you claim to have nukes, they will disregard you until you prove it. If you steal theirs, they know you have them right off the bat. It is minor, but a vast difference in how people will treat you.
You can bluff (or actually build) a system that will fire the nukes all over the world in case of your death or imprisonment destroying everything. No one will attack you at that point.

[AvatarVecna]

I would say that antimatter falls outside the range of what a "mineral" is. Arguable though. You better have some serious skills to figure out the math though or you'll end up blowing up the whole planet.

My base assumption is that a volume of antimatter has the same weight as its opposing matter of the same density/volume (which should be true, since I vaguely remember from some science show thing that there's a significant difference between antimatter and negative mass, which is also a super-neato science thing). If this is incorrect, anybody is free to correct me.

Let's have a lightweight bomb for our "demonstrate that we're serious" explosion, since we can make a lot of volume and we don't really need too much. Hydrogen, let's have an Anti-Hydrogen bomb. Alright, so some quick googling indicates that Hydrogen (and anti-Hydrogen, presumably) has a density of 0.08988 grams per Liter (or, for Americans like myself, ~0.005611 pounds per cubic foot). At the minimum CL necessary to cast Major Creation, that gives us 0.05611 lbs of Anti-Hydrogen. Plugging that into this antimatter calculator (http://www.edwardmuller.com/index.php?Page=calculator) tells me this would result in a 1.0952672 megaton explosion. Plugging that into this lovely site for simulating nuclear explosions (http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/) (which does things in kilotons, to be clear) tells us that this explosion, the smallest we can create while still using all of the spell's volume, creates a blast area with a radius of 11.1 kilometers/6.897 miles (total volume: ~48292806582119 cubic feet). Setting it off in the John F Kennedy International Airport (http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?&kt=1095&lat=40.6411676&lng=-73.7781001&airburst=0&hob_ft=0&casualties=1&fatalities=104074&injuries=512253&psi_1=1601471&zm=10) estimates 100000 deaths and 500000 injuries, or thereabout. Sure, we don't have to set off our test explosive in New York City, we can set it off in Antarctica, but as long as people notice that we just spent 6 seconds summoning the equivalent of a Megaton Bomb out of thin air, we'll have their attention.

So what's the biggest bomb we can have our sorcerer make? Well, this sorcerer doesn't really have much of a scientific background, and only knows of antimatter from pop culture and maybe google, but he's probably pretty familiar with Gold. Let's summon up some Anti-Gold! Density: 19.32 g/cm3, or 1206.1082 lbs/ft3, for a total weight of 12061.082 lbs. This creates a 235432 megaton explosion. Unfortunately, I can't link to the simulation of this because the simulator I used before only goes to 100 megatons, but here, our original Antimatter Bomb link can help us out, because the person who made it has included a neat chart of the estimated yield of example explosions. Our 235432 megaton explosion is about 20 times as large an explosion as what would occur if the entire world's nuclear stockpile was detonated simultaneously, which the calculator's creator has named "World War III", since it's the kind of nightmare scenario that convinced the world's governments to keep things cool during the Cold War. And creating that scenario, the "20 times worse than all of humanity actively trying to destroy the planet" takes you 6 seconds of being pissed off.

Unseelie Fey Magic-Blooded Human Sorcerer 5/Incantatrix 10/Archmage 5.

Take "Spell Power" at every Archmage level. Pick up an Orange Ioun Stone, a Ring Of Arcane Might, a Robe Of Arcane Might (Conjuration), and a custom item of +30 to Spellcraft.

Feats:
HD 1: Iron Will
Human: Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
Flaw: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Flaw: Spell Focus (Evocation)
Sorcerer 1: Eschew Materials
HD 3: Invisible Spell
HD 6: Extend Spell
Incantatrix 1: Empower Spell
HD 9: Spell Thematics
Incantatrix 4: Twin Spell
HD 12: Arcane Thesis (Major Creation)
Incantatrix 7: Quicken Spell
HD 15: Easy Metamagic (Twin Spell)
Incantatrix 10: Delay Spell
HD 18: Easy Metamagic (Quicken Spell)


Use "Wish" to replicate "Greater Consumptive Field", and then make the effect Persistent with a DC 54 Spellcraft check (23 ranks, +30 item, +3 Skill Focus=+56). Normal CL is 27, or 28 when casting Wish. This puts the GCF bonus at a maximum of +14, assuming you can suck the life out of enough people within 24 hours. Once you've sucked the life from 14 random hobos or whatever, Teleport to your "Ground Zero". Your CL, for the purposes of casting Major Creation, is 45.

Round 1.0
9th lvl: Invisible Extended "Time Stop" (minimum 4 rounds of stopped time, average 7)

((9+0+1-2=8, minimum is 9th lvl))

Round 1.01

5th lvl: Invisible Delayed Twinned "Major Creation: Anti-Osmium" (5 round delay)

((5+0+1+2-3=5, minimum is 5th lvl))

6th lvl: Invisible Delayed Quickened Twinned "Major Creation: Anti-Osmium" (5 round delay)

((5+0+1+2+2-4=6))

Round 1.02

5th lvl: Invisible Delayed Twinned "Major Creation: Anti-Osmium" (4 round delay)

6th lvl: Invisible Delayed Quickened Twinned "Major Creation: Anti-Osmium" (4 round delay)

Round 1.03

5th lvl: Invisible Delayed Twinned "Major Creation: Anti-Osmium" (3 round delay)

6th lvl: Invisible Delayed Quickened Twinned "Major Creation: Anti-Osmium" (3 round delay)

Round 1.04

5th lvl: Invisible Delayed Twinned "Major Creation: Anti-Osmium" (3 round delay)

6th lvl: Invisible Delayed Quickened Twinned "Major Creation: Anti-Osmium" (3 round delay)

Round 1.05

5th lvl: Invisible Delayed Twinned "Major Creation: Anti-Osmium" (3 round delay)

6th lvl: Invisible Delayed Quickened Twinned "Major Creation: Anti-Osmium" (3 round delay)

Round 1.06

5th lvl: Invisible Delayed Twinned "Major Creation: Anti-Osmium" (3 round delay)

6th lvl: Invisible Delayed Quickened Twinned "Major Creation: Anti-Osmium" (3 round delay)

Round 1.07

7th lvl: Greater Teleport

7th lvl: Plane Shift

Time Stop ends, and a pile of 900 cubic feet worth of Anti-Osmium is now allowed to interact with matter (761533.704 lbs worth). This creates a 24,775,229 megaton explosion, which is about a quarter of the way to the same level of destruction as the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs: sizable to be sure, but I'm gonna go see if I can pull of something better. There's gotta be a way to reach the 819 million megatons "Death Star laser equivalent".

EDIT: At least, a way that doesn't involve "Reserves Of Strength: Greater Consumptive Field" cheese. :smalltongue:

[AvatarVecna]

Major Creation has a casting time of 10 minutes. Fortunately, Resilient Sphere with a caster level of 11th will protect you from any possible retaliation while preparing the Boom Cube, and give you a whole minute to Teleport elsewhere.

Huh, missed that part. I guess it's still viable, although that means that the super-version in the spoiler no longer works. Sad-face.

I guess to do what the spoiler's doing, I'd need to instead have that build centered around Polymorph Any Object, to turn 4500 cubic ft of something into a 4500 cubic ft of Anti-Osmium. Duration doesn't matter, because it'll go boom.

[Malroth]

Earliest sorcorer builds that can conquer the world that i can think of come online at lv 4 unlike lv1 for wizards because sorcorers have 1 fewer feat, and get 2nd lv spells 1 level later. But the potential world ending brokenness that is fell drain or Illusionary script is still viable for sorcorers even if it's not cheeseable in at lv 1.

[Mordaedil]

Use Simulacrum with Eschew Materials to make a Solar.

Eschew Materials, really? Benefit: You can cast any spell that has a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component.

Simulacrum: Additionally, the spell requires powdered ruby worth 100 gp per HD of the simulacrum to be created.

[Hackulator]

Earliest sorcorer builds that can conquer the world that i can think of come online at lv 4 unlike lv1 for wizards because sorcorers have 1 fewer feat, and get 2nd lv spells 1 level later. But the potential world ending brokenness that is fell drain or Illusionary script is still viable for sorcorers even if it's not cheeseable in at lv 1.

You'd have to describe your plane with Fell Drain, but Illusionary Script is not letting you take over the world.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Eschew Materials, really? Benefit: You can cast any spell that has a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component.

Simulacrum: Additionally, the spell requires powdered ruby worth 100 gp per HD of the simulacrum to be created.

Eschew Materials is for the DNA sample. If I want rubies, I'll rob a jewelry store.

[boomwolf]

Actually, clean DNA samples are worth quite a bit of money, I'm not sure 1gp can cover it.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Actually, clean DNA samples are worth quite a bit of money, I'm not sure 1gp can cover it.

Fingernails will do just fine; if it doesn't have a price, the Eschew Materials covers it.