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seekerTJ7
2017-06-30, 06:07 PM
Straight to the point.

Me and my friends are taking turns DM'ing and I'm soon to be up, it'll be my first time so I'm really researching for the role.
One thing that has bugged me as being ridiculously over-powered is the use of the channel divinity: "Invoke Duplicity" together with the spell "Mirror Image".

I have seen questions with this topic before but not in the context that my friend is using it in.
My grasp of the situation is that my friend is using Invoke Duplicity to summon a perfection clone (illusion) and then using Mirror Image to summon even more clones. Then my friend proceeds to use Inflict Wounds with all of his clones doing some absolutely disgusting damage which really just shouldn't be in the game at the level we are at.

Rundown of the situation: He rolls like 3 or 4 d10's for damage from Inflict Wounds normally before taking this damage x (amount of clones he summoned) to do like 100-200 damage consistently.

We are level 3. Yes, 3.

Pretty much all of my friends are adamant that this is what the book says can be done and there isn't nothing that I can do to stop this from happening.
However, in my personal opinion, I see these spells as "illusions" and therefore not material matter, meaning that any attacks from these clones do not do damage and instead the only damage done to enemies is the base damage from the spell Inflict Wounds itself, with no massive bonuses from the other spells.

Please, I need a decent explanation on if this is actually possible to pull off such massive damage? Mainly regarding if the clones from Invoke Duplicity and Mirror Image can actually perform spells and do physical damage individually only using up 1 spell slot for the entire setup?

I said to my friend that I was simply outright banning these spells/divinities but he then just says that he'll refuse to play, please help.

8wGremlin
2017-06-30, 06:38 PM
Sorry to say but you and your friend have it gotten is wrong.

Nowhere does it say that all the clones can cast multiple instances of the spell.

The 'Invoke Duplicity' clone can be used to deliver the SPELL (the, one, singular)
The other clones are there as a defence mechanism, they don't get the actual spell, they can appear to be casting the spell, but don't actually have any mechanical effect.

Read the spells again, carefully.

Read what Invoke Duplicity actually does.

Now re-read them again.



Make a melee spell attack against a creature you can reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d10 necrotic damage.



Channel Divinity:Invoke Duplicity Starting at 2nd level, you can use your Channel Divinity to create an illusory duplicate o f yourself.
As an action, you create a perfect illusion of
yourself that lasts for 1 minute, or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell). The illusion appears in an unoccupied space that you can see within 30 feet of you.As a bonus action on your turn, you can move the illusion up to 30 feet to a space you can see, but it must remain within 120 feet of you.


For the duration, you can cast spells as though you were in the illusion’s space, but you must use your own senses. Additionally, when both you and your illusion are within 5 feet of a creature that can see the illusion, you have advantage on attack rolls against that creature, given how distracting the illusion is to the target.




Three illusory duplicates of yourself appear in your space. Until the spell ends, the duplicates move with you and mimic your actions, shifting position so it's impossible to track which image is real. You can use your action to dismiss the illusory duplicates.
Each time a creature targets you with an attack during the spell's duration, roll a d20 to determine whether the attack instead targets one of your duplicates.
If you have three duplicates, you must roll a 6 or higher to change the attack's target to a duplicate. With two duplicates, you must roll an 8 or higher. With one duplicate, you must roll an 11 or higher.
A duplicate's AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier. If an attack hits a duplicate, the duplicate is destroyed. A duplicate can be destroyed only by an attack that hits it. It ignores all other damage and effects. The spell ends when all three duplicates are destroyed.
A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can't see, if it relies on senses other than sight, such as blindsight (https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/monsters#Blindsight), or if it can perceive illusions as false, as with truesight (https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/monsters#Truesight).

Nowhere does it say that the duplicates get to make more attacks, or cast more spells.
You can tell your friend that he is mistaken.

seekerTJ7
2017-06-30, 07:54 PM
All of your explanations are my thoughts exactly, thank you so much for clarifying this properly. Before I actually didn't see the "cast spell in illusion's place" part and now I have this to attempt to argue my point to my friend.
Still they are adamant in saying that their way is right but from common sense there is no physical way someone would make a spell to allow a player to deal 100-200 damage at level 3.
With all this evidence you have given me I'm going to force them to use it the way you have explained here, cause to be honest, I've had enough of bosses being one-shot, and I'm actually playing alongside him at this moment in time!

Once again, thank you 1) for such a quick reply and 2) the detailed explanation and links.

RSP
2017-07-02, 01:22 AM
Just for the record, even if you're playing that each Illusion delivers the spell, that's still just 3d10x4=12d10=~66, assuming they all hit. How are you getting 100-200 damage out of this?

seekerTJ7
2017-07-03, 03:02 AM
Well I exaggerated slightly as thats what the damage feels like when this combination is used on every boss in the campaign, but he's using his invoke's dupe plus his mirror image dupes plus himself for the Inflict Wounds so it's 3d10x5 and he gets buffs from our bard so he makes another 2d6x5. (Forgot to mention that really).
So max would be 210 with an mean of 105 damage.

Mellack
2017-07-03, 03:50 AM
What buff from the bard is giving them another 2d6 to the spells damage? I cannot think of any way right off for that.

Snivlem
2017-07-03, 04:53 AM
I don't even understand how your friends came to misunderstand the rules this badly. It's like they haven't read the rules at all, or are playing a different game. I think the rules are very clear this is not how it works at all, not to mention their interpretation obviously breaks the game.

Also ditto what Mellack said. I'm guessing he is using the combat inspiration from the college of valor, but that's +1d6 on a single attack with a weapon.

Are you sure they are playing d&d? I don't mean to be rude, but is sounds like your group needs a person who knows the rules properly, and it sounds like that person has to be you.