Pf/3.5 Deathmatch

[Riftwolf]

Just a passing thought, maybe someone could figure it out;
In a straight up fight, no cheese, using their monster entries alone (no swapping of spells or feats), who'd win in a fight between a Solar and a Red Great Wyrm?
I want to say the Solar, by quite a long way, but I can't be certain.

[Eldariel]

Well first, specify which. PF and 3.5 are very different beasts in this regard. Also the terms of engagement. Though Miracle/Wish/etc. make this a very open-ended affair in either case.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The Solar casts as a 20th level Cleric, and the Dragon as a 19th level Sorcerer. The Dragon is more physically powerful, but the Solar has DR/15 epic that the Dragon can't bypass, as well as Regeneration.

...

Batman rules, I'd say: The Dragon wins if they're dropped in a room together; the Solar wins with prep time.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Even looking at the standard spell out load for a Solar, I'm convinced it would win.

Is the Solar allowed to use its Wish SLA to get Psychic Reformation and swap all its feats?

[Vaz]

They're both able to utilise a Wish Economy. There is no winner. Whatever the Solar can do the Dragon can do. And the Dragon has higher mental stats so is likely to have considered it beforehand.

[daremetoidareyo]

What if the arena is an antimagic field?

[ColorBlindNinja]

What if the arena is an antimagic field?

Why would it be?

[Vaz]

What if the arena is an antimagic field?

They fly out of the Antimagic field and then fight.

[Riftwolf]

Batman rules, I'd say: The Dragon wins if they're dropped in a room together; the Solar wins with prep time.

I'd go with this answer. The reason for this thought experiment is I'm figuring out a cosmology, and toying with the idea that Dragons are level or higher with the most powerful non-divine-rank Angel/Demons. Solars looked more powerful than Balors and Pit Fiends (possibly because you're not supposed to fight Solars), but big Dragons were tough to call.

I think Psychic Reformation counts as cheese?

[ColorBlindNinja]

Solars looked more powerful than Balors and Pit Fiends (possibly because you're not supposed to fight Solars), but big Dragons were tough to call.

Celestials are almost always tougher than fiends.


I think Psychic Reformation counts as cheese?

Cheese would be using Psychic Reformation to give the Solar epic spellcasting.

[unseenmage]

They're both able to utilise a Wish Economy. There is no winner. Whatever the Solar can do the Dragon can do. And the Dragon has higher mental stats so is likely to have considered it beforehand.

This.

Additionally, the game ain't called 'Dungeons & Solars'. Rule of cool says dragons are better in my book.

[ColorBlindNinja]

This.

Additionally, the game ain't called 'Dungeons & Solars'. Rule of cool says dragons are better in my book.

The Solar does get Wish as an SLA.