Pimp my bard

[Baby Gary]

I am planning on playing a bard in an upcoming campaign that is starting at 5th level and I want to play a bard. I have read a couple Bard handbooks but I would like a broader opinion on this character, so how do I make a powerful Bard? I an thinking of getting words of creation and maybe Nymph's Kiss in the feat section. this character will almost certainly be a gish, I am not sure what type to be though.

Thank you in advance for your help!

P.S. I would like this build to have a strong emphasis on bards and IC, not sure if I want DFI though

[EDIT] I am using 28 point buy

[ColorBlindNinja]

You could max Bluff and take Glibness. Your DM might throw books at you, though, if you abuse it.

Edit: You'd have to wait until level 7, at least, to do that.

[RoboEmperor]

Sublime Chord levels 11-20
Bard 7 levels.
3 levels of dips, cleric for domain powers if there is no multiclass penalty

[Baby Gary]

Sublime Chord levels 11-20
Bard 7 levels.
3 levels of dips, cleric for domain powers if there is no multiclass penalty

what about sublime chord 1 and full arcane spell casting 9? (or split up some other way)

[RoboEmperor]

what about sublime chord 1 and full arcane spell casting 9? (or split up some other way)

Sure. Gishing means Abjurant Champion 5. Barbarian dip is also good with no multiclass penalty for Pounce.

[nintendoh]

Make your bard a warforged with a juke box in his chest. There are in game benefits to this. Its not just me trying to make you play as a futurama character.

[prototype00]

Make your bard a warforged with a juke box in his chest. There are in game benefits to this. Its not just me trying to make you play as a futurama character.

Mostly to do with the Words of Creation feat, doubling your bardic music bonuses and vbeing immune to the resulting non-lethal damage.

[Calthropstu]

50 gp for an hour, 200 for all night... this bard is well worth it..."

[ColorBlindNinja]

50 gp for an hour, 200 for all night... this bard is well worth it..."

You'd probably make more money crafting. :smallamused:

[nintendoh]

You can play bodies by drowning pool for a moral bonus.

[Gildedragon]

50 gp for an hour, 200 for all night... this bard is well worth it..."

That's pretty generous. A perform 30 earns one 3d6gps

[gorfnab]

Gish builds for Bards can be a little odd.

Melee
Bard 8/ Paladin of Freedom 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3
Bard 6/ Crusader 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 8
Bard 6/ Crusader 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Jade Phoenix Mage 3
Bard 4/ Crusader 2/ Abjurant Champion 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 3/ Jade Phoenix Mage 5

Ranged
Bard 8/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3
Bard 8/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Ruathar 3

[Baby Gary]

Gish builds for Bards can be a little odd.

Melee
Bard 8/ Paladin of Freedom 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3
Bard 6/ Crusader 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 8
Bard 6/ Crusader 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Jade Phoenix Mage 3
Bard 4/ Crusader 2/ Abjurant Champion 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 3/ Jade Phoenix Mage 5

Ranged
Bard 8/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3
Bard 8/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Ruathar 3

thanks, however the more I think about it I am not so sure that I want this bard to be a gish, do you have any builds focused on casting? (still needs to be not be horrible at combat)

[gorfnab]

thanks, however the more I think about it I am not so sure that I want this bard to be a gish, do you have any builds focused on casting? (still needs to be not be horrible at combat)
Because of Sublime Chord, all of those builds that I posted end up with 9th level spells. They also get 16+BAB or better for combat purposes.

For a casting focused/general purpose Bard, I like the following.
Bard 8/ Virtuoso 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Virtuoso 8

[Nifft]

Two ideas.

======

Just Plain Bardic Awesome: Silverbrow Human Bard 5
Spells Known:
0 - Prestidigitation, Mending, Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Read Magic, Detect Magic
1 - Grease, Improvisation, Inspirational Boost, Silent Image
2 - Alter Self, Glitterdust, Suggestion

Feats:
L1 - Nymph's Kiss (Book of Exalted Deeds)
L1 Human Bonus - Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic)
L3 - Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting)
...
L6 - Words of Creation (Book of Exalted Deeds)

The spells are picked for general utility + Inspire Courage optimization; the feats are almost entirely Inspire Courage optimization.

You'll need 15+ Int and 15+ Cha to qualify for Words of Creation, so plan around that, or plan on skipping it. One valid replacement feat idea is Leadership. :smallwink:

======

Oh My Gods Is That a T1 Caster Hiding Behind a Guitar: Silverbrow Human Bard x / Druid y (ACFs: avenger, swift hunter)

Pick any x and y where (x+y=5).

If you have at least 2 Druid levels, you'll get 9th level spells by character level 20. If you have at least 1 Bard level, you'll get level 6 Bard spells by level 20. If you want to be almost entirely Bard, just take one level of Druid and don't worry about the spells.

Now, normally a Druid would dislike those ACFs, but you're going to take PrCs which don't advance any Druid features other than spellcasting, so for you the ACFs are mostly bonus.

At level 6, go into Green Whisperer (Dragon Magazine #311, p.70). This PrC advances Druid casting, Bard casting, Bardic music, and Bardic knowledge -- so all your Bard features, plus Druid spells.

There are two feats you need to pick up before level 10:
- Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots) - from Magic of Incarnum, requires level 3 or later
- Open Least Chakra (Feet) - also from Magic of Incarnum, requires level 6 or later

At level 11, go into Fochlucan Lyrist (Complete Adventurer, p.47). Advances spellcasting for both your classes, great skill points, and it's full BAB.

[Baby Gary]

thanks a lot @Nifft, I have one question though, why do I need the MoI feats?

[Nifft]

thanks a lot @Nifft, I have one question though, why do I need the MoI feats?

You need Evasion to get into Fochlucan Lyrist.

Those two feats get you Evasion (without losing any caster levels).

[Baby Gary]

I have one more question about you builds, for the first build what do you think I should do past level 5?

[edit] a question about DFI, how do I change the damage to something besides fire? fire is nice and all but a lot of creatures have immunity/resistance to it. thanks!

[Nifft]

I have one more question about you builds, for the first build what do you think I should do past level 5?

1) Keep being an awesome Bard; or
2) go into Lyric Thaumaturge; or
3) go into Sublime Chord.

You can be awesome just with Bard 20, plus good spell choices and good feat choices.

There's a good guide for Bard-building here: http://www.joshuad.net/new-bard-handbook/

[Nifft]

[edit] a question about DFI, how do I change the damage to something besides fire? fire is nice and all but a lot of creatures have immunity/resistance to it. thanks!

My advice is: don't look at DFI as guaranteed damage, rather look at it as one of your nova options for some situations. Start off a tough fight with regular Inspire Courage (for which you've optimized), and then if you need DFI -- and the enemy is vulnerable to DFI -- then stop Inspire Courage (which lingers for 5 rounds) and turn on the Dragonfire.

Fire is one of the most-resisted types of damage -- but it's also one of the most common vulnerabilities, because the other most-resisted type is Cold.

There are ways to get a better damage type, but they generally involve either wasting two feats, or not being a Bard (and instead doing something like Sorcerer + Draconic Heritage > Heartfire Fanner).

The two feats are Dragontouched (from Dragon Magic) and Draconic Heritage. I recommend NOT taking them, but they exist and you could do it via Flaws maybe.