Side DMing, or the art of helping the newbie

[Theodoxus]

I've recently started playing in two new groups, off of Meetup, and they both have the same "problem". New to 5th edition players. There are differences in each, of course, but I'm running into the same general problem with both: The DMs are also relatively new to 5E and don't have the nuances of every class or race under their belt.

Now, I'm coming from the position of playing 5E since the day I got the PHB and Starter Set in August 2014. I've run probably close to 200 hours, and played in easily over 1000 hours - all slowing building my own mastery of the system.

My quandary is how much "rules lawyering" for lack of a better term, do I provide at the table? If the DM doesn't understand the ins and outs of Reckless Attack, and doesn't take advantage (no pun intended) of the barbarians' weakness, is it my responsibility to point it out? I did help a new to TTRPGs player out with some things like Halfling Luck, when he had the ability to Sneak Attack, or how to calculate his hit and damage... but should I also be helping the DM when he misses things? Like halflings not having darkvision, or that firing into melee isn't disadvantage, it's partial cover at best... (or that barbarian thing...)

It's gotten to the point where I've already decided, next Session 0 I go to, that I'm just going to say right out, that I will monitor the game for RAW breakage - and allow the DM to alter whatever he likes for the Rule of Cool - but state what the RAW is for the circumstance... I'm tired of people taking half moves because they ran up to something to attack it - they kill it, but then stand there instead of moving on... I'm tired of casters casting a bonus action spell, and then not following up with a cantrip - not because they don't have one, or don't have a target, but simply because they didn't know they could!

When I DM, I have no problem teaching the game... but when I'm a player, I'm not sure how much I should call out... I really dislike rules lawyers who arrogantly shout out "That's wrong!" and I know I'm stepping dangerously close to that hypocrisy with my intentions... and I want to avoid that, while still making sure newbies are learning the actual rules of the game, and not some hybrid mishmash of 3.P and 5E... I mean, if they leave this campaign and play in another, I'll look like a jackass for letting them think that the way they played was right, when it wasn't... and they'll be embarrassed for never having been corrected...

Maybe I'm overthinking this... anyone else experience this? If these were AL games, I think it'd be less stressful to me, as then at least I could point to the AL rules and be right... but with homebrew, it's hard to know if the DM doesn't know, or simply changed something on the fly without notifying the players...

If you had a player who expressed a desire to help umpire your games, would you welcome it or get pissed?

[imanidiot]

Keep notes of rules being improperly applied for the DM and separate notes for other PCs on was they can improve their tactical prowess.

And now this is the important part. Share these notes with your group AFTER the game session. Don't interrupt play with rules lawyering. Just go with it, it's not a big deal.

Keep in mind that as an experienced player you are way more powerful than the other PCs. If you go 100 at all times either the DM doesn't compensate and the other PCs don't matter. Or the DM does compensate and the other PCs don't matter. Just play worse for now to stay with the pack and improve your play as you party mates improve.

[Decstarr]

When I started DMing, I had the luxury of doing it with a group of close friends and we were all equally new to the game. So our sessions involved a lot of back and forth discussion and a lot of "I'll look that up in between sessions, let's do it like this for now". I'd been insanely grateful if anyone had more experience and could've told me more about what I was doing wrong. But we were all friends, there was no such thing as undermining DM authority here and I'm generally a person who is really open to advice.

Here's what I would do if I was in your shoes: Talk to the DM privately, let him know that you don't want to be a rules lawyer or a pain in the ass, but in the spirit of a lot of players being new to the game, it makes sense if they learn the rules correctly. Elsewise, they'll have a really hard time adapting if they ever play at a different table. Ask the DM which way of input he'd prefer, on the spot or combined after a session. Talk to the players afterwards. And create cheat sheets for them. I've done so for our dual wielder, who now has a sun blade and a vorpals - yeah, OP, I know! - and who always has trouble doing his math. So we just created a table for him that I put on the back side of my DM screen right opposite of where he is always sitting. Made our lifes a lot easier. You could do the same thing for the caster e.g. In the beginning, it is all about repetition and no one can learn if they're not told what they're doing wrong.

You can also ask the DM to design specific encounters to learn new stuff. We've done an entire quest in icy mountains e.g. to learn about exhaustion, environmental effects and difficult terrain. If the DM is new and you are not condescending, he will likely appreciate your input.

Another thing I've always done is summarize our last session in our whatsapp group after I looked up/checked the stuff that was unclear. Then I told the guys "we did it this way and will stick to it" or "the way we did it was wrong and from now on it'll be done that way". I'm still doing this as I feel it is a requirement of a good DM to check his rulings and find out how to improve his game.

As always, communication is the key here. And for you, patience probably is the most important thing. They won't stop making mistakes any time soon, so you'll better get used to that. If all that fails, either look for or start a new group yourself I'd say.

[Snivlem]

Just ask your DM before the session what he would prefer. Like the poster above said, quite possibly he will be happy to get your help. Talking with the other players would also be smart.

- Would he/they like you to tell him during game if he's doing something wrong?
- Would he/they prefer it if you wait until after the sesion to tell him?
- Would he/they prefer it that you don't intervene at all?

[Jophiel]

And now this is the important part. Share these notes with your group AFTER the game session. Don't interrupt play with rules lawyering. Just go with it, it's not a big deal.
When I played with a new DM, that was his rule. During the game, it was his game to run but he welcomed after the game notes on rules decisions, etc. It worked out well -- he never declared that a fireball does 2d4 damage or anything -- and kept the game moving without everyone shuffling through pages.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Let the DM know that they can look to you for fast rules checks. If it sounds like they simply forgot a minor detail like someone not having darkvision, quickly point it out and then let the DM decide where to go from there. Otherwise if you aren't utilized during a session, let them know of any glaring errors that occurred after the game, in private. And always present it as "this is how it is by the book, but we can break that if you'd like. We'll make a new rule out of it", and try your best to defend intent over precision. Do put your foot down a little harder if they're ruining another players' fun, but always in that context.

For the players, roleplay a helper. Someone that gives in-game hints and tips. Bards are amazing in this regard, as can be clerics or wizards. I did this as a mystic and a cleric in a similar circumstance in a game that ended only recently. I'd call for help from the party tanks, point out great spots for spells I knew the sorcerer and bard had, try to cover for the rogue, that sort of stuff. Start by assuming a base level of competency out of them, and try not to talk down to them. If you hold a player's hand for too long, they can turn into a pretty terrible player. Let them make mistakes. Losing a character due to your own incompetence is a right of passage for a TTRPG player. I'd say learning how to move on from it is the precise point that one becomes a great player.

[SiCK_Boy]

I have to second the various responses above who said to check with the DM how he'd like this to be handled. Don't just "declare" at Session 0 that from that point on, you will point out all rules mistake during gameplay.

Instead, just state that you want to ensure everyone follows RAW and ask the DM (or even the whole group) how they'd like things to be handled when you notice that the wrong rule is applied at the table.

Unless they explicitly grant you permission to interrupt gameplay to point out rules mistake, just make it an habit of taking notes and provide them afterward to the DM or the group (ideally, with reference to the actual sourcebook supporting whatever rule you want to see enforced).

If they ask that you don't interrupt the game, then be respectful of that.

Personally, short of a rule mistake resulting in a player death, I would not interrupt gameplay one way or the other, but really, what matters is that the whole table be comfortable with whatever behavior you end up agreeing upon.

[BlackbirdXX]

I'm in the same boat. Have DM/GM for about 95% of my RPG career dating back to the boxed sets. I seem to be able to understand a get a handle of rulesets easier than most for some odd reason.

Anyway, have DM'd for 5e since it came out. Now, 2 of my groups mates want to DM. Luckily, we are RL friends, so lines of communications are open. But even then it is still a tough situation. I had promised to hold my tongue unless specifically asked for rules data. DMs gotta find their way/groove and PCs need to imagine/play the way they are inspired to play after-all. Not be back seat driven.

The result...we have almost TPK'd multiple sessions in a row... and not to due any rules issue really. It's just simple lack of strategy, lack of teamwork and generally new players not knowing what they can do on a turn. The new DM is to focused on new DM things themselves to realize how completely non-optimized, non-strategy the party was. Rolling over 3rd level characters with a handful of goblins is pathetic on the PCs part.

Talk it over with the group. Yeah, 'rules lawyer', can totally break the atmosphere for the DM and some players. But some DMs may prefer a quick trusted answer instead of having to pull constant retcons out of their behinds due to lack of mechanics or strategy.

What is now working for us, is I will mention there is an 'alternative' or give a quick indication that the rule is perhaps not RAW, but Rule 0 instead. Just a quick statement or note. Gives my DM friend the option of a lifeline in the case he knows he is pulling out of thin air. Or it gives the other players the chance to inquire about strategy or their ability/power/spell without feeling I am telling them how to play. Because plain and simple, there is no wrong way assuming everyone is having fun.

[Beelzebubba]

Just be cool and friendly about it and talk with the DM beforehand.

Don't say stuff like "I hate to be a rules lawyer but..." - that will get them defensive immediately.

Say it like "I noticed some of the players are overlooking cool stuff their characters can do sometimes, mind if I point it out to help them learn?"

Or, "I noticed a few judgments that you made that aren't in the rules. Is that a specific house rule? If not, when a situation like that comes up again, and I know the rule, would you mind if I pointed it out in-game?"

When you do call it out, say something like "you can call it the way you want it and it's cool, but the rule for this is a bit different. I can go over it now, or later?" If they say "later", just drop it until after the session.

It's really hard to reject that approach, because it's respectful and a 'soft touch'. It's supportive,lets them move on if they think it will bog down the game, doesn't erode their authority, and (in extreme case) lets them save face.