Trying to figure out character appearance. 5 str, 17 dex, 20 cha , Not goat tiefling?

[Rfkannen]

Hi there! So as a group we agreed to all draw our characters by next game (everyone in the group draws, mostly art students, so we thought it would be fun!) but I am havring trouble figureing out how the character should look. And I was wondering if you had any ideas.

Relevant stats are 5 str (weak), 17 dex, 20 charisma (hot)
Race is half demon (mechanically tiefling)

Backstory is he was the runt of the litter in a gang of war demon desert raiders from a place which is half mad max and half old west. His part of the gang was to pretend to be an innocent bystander to help set up ambushes or scout for raids.

My main problems are, we have another teifling in the party and I thought it would be fun if they were diffrent. The other one is from fantasy Denmark and is based on one of those Satan goats, so he has 4 goat horns and completely black eyes. So I want to do something that isn't goatlike. Also I want to make it clear he is technically a savage demon not a suave devil.

Gms only ruleing is he had to look overtly demonic, doesn't have to horns but at least one major feature.

So what do you think? What do those stats look Like? How can I make him demonic but not a goat like?

Any ideas?

[Grod_The_Giant]

With those stats, I'm kind of thinking Slenderman-y-- someone waaay too tall and thin. Spindly, even, like you took a normal human and stretched them out. Huge, fiery eyes, mere slits for nostrils, and a small mouth that, when they smile, shows off twice the usual number of teeth. Hands like a pianist's, but even longer and thinner, and with no nail-- the whole finger just narrows to a sharp point.

[Unoriginal]

Hi there! So as a group we agreed to all draw our characters by next game (everyone in the group draws, mostly art students, so we thought it would be fun!) but I am havring trouble figureing out how the character should look. And I was wondering if you had any ideas.

Relevant stats are 5 str, 17 dex, 20 charisma.
Race is half demon (mechanically tiefling)

Backstory is he was the runt of the litter in a gang of war demon desert raiders from a place which is half mad max and half old west. His part of the gang was to pretend to be an innocent bystander to help set up ambushes or scout for raids.

My main problems are, we have another teifling in the party and I thought it would be fun if they were diffrent. The other one is from fantasy Denmark and is based on one of those Satan goats, so he has 4 goat horns and completely black eyes. So I want to do something that isn't goatlike. Also I want to make it clear he is technically a savage demon not a suave devil.

Gms only ruleing is he had to look overtly demonic, doesn't have to horns but at least one major feature.

So what do you think? What do those stats look Like? How can I make him demonic but not a goat like?

Any ideas?

- a boar's nose or tusks

- a frog's eyes or tongue (or a toxic frog's colored skin)

- a wasp's/hornet's antennas or mandibles

- a shark's fin or skin

- Hair like a tiger's fur

- A lion's mane

Could be interesting to give him a physical feature that goes against what you'd expect from his role and stats.

Like, take an animal that's strong and/or deadly, and add one of its traits to your character.

[Beelzebubba]

20 charisma isn't necessarily hot, it means force of personality, when he talks people listen, he gets what he wants, confidence, inspiring leadership.

I'm seeing Ziggy Stardust era David Bowie.

Gaunt, hollow cheeked, but moves with grace and elegance, and has eyes and a voice that mesmerize.

[CursedRhubarb]

20 charisma isn't necessarily hot, it means force of personality, when he talks people listen, he gets what he wants, confidence, inspiring leadership.

I'm seeing Ziggy Stardust era David Bowie.

Gaunt, hollow cheeked, but moves with grace and elegance, and has eyes and a voice that mesmerize.

I was thinking almost the same thing, but Goblin King David Bowie with modifications.

Ashen colored skin with red highlights. Instead of the expected black soulless demon eyes something that stands out like slitted pupil eyes with vibrant gold iris to stand out against the skin color.

And standard Bowie attire. Tight pants, tops tight on the chest but loose on the sleeves and shoulders.

Always have a disguise kit handy so your makeup is always fab.

[smcmike]

Yeah, skinny rock (and roll) god, in tight black pants and a blousy shirt and jacket. A member of The Rolling Stones or a Saint Laurent Paris model.

[raygun goth]

While I agree with previous posters about the weirdo skinny appearance...

Here are two great resources!

https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0484/32/1469391579275.jpg



https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0269/86/1378240939818.png

[ShikomeKidoMi]

You can also always pick a demon or devil and add features reminiscent of that particular kind.

Since people are suggesting skinny, how about an Osyluth or Babou? Horribly emaciated with one big horn growing out of the back of his head (babau) or a vestigial scorpion tail (Osyluth).

[Elminster298]

I played a Necromancer that had an abysmally low strength score a couple years back. I described him as an experiment of he former master. His arms and legs had all been removed and an incorporeal undead bound to his soul replacing his limbs with ghostly versions. He could barely interact with the real world because his arms and legs would just pass through most solid objects. Over time the undead would weaken and be destroyed so he had to constantly change it out which allowed for interesting options from shadows, specters, ghosts, wraiths, and even one time a banshee.

[Moosoculars]

If the DM is ok with it I would play a winged teifling. One where the wings drone and buzz giving him amazing maneuverability (high dex) but thin body and clawed limbs almost hanging off the wings. (Low STR). If possible I would play a small character. Almost imp like. Then you can hover next to people and whisper Faustian deals into their ears (high CHA).

[Waterdeep Merch]

Something similar to the demon prince Graz'zt would make a lot of sense. Lithe, 9-feet tall, obsidian-skinned, glittering green eyes, pointed ears and teeth, six tiny horns hidden amidst his foppish hair, six fingers, beautiful to behold but clearly not normal. He's a schemer, seductive even to creatures that know exactly what he is.

Since he's supposed to be rather savage, consider playing with him like a textbook sociopath. He has all kinds of urges and wants and very little internal morale guidance. He's come to realize that most people don't like that, so he's crafted a personality that is attractive to people, a powerful charisma that masks his true, more primal desires. He should believe in himself first and foremost, be fearless because of it but fiercely cunning (socially at least), and may struggle with his lack or morality and need of it. Real world sociopaths aren't always the kind of evil villains media loves painting them as, and often try very hard to integrate into society and create rules they feel they must follow so that people will like them, or at least not bother them.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Hi there! So as a group we agreed to all draw our characters by next game (everyone in the group draws, mostly art students, so we thought it would be fun!) but I am havring trouble figureing out how the character should look. And I was wondering if you had any ideas.

Relevant stats are 5 str (weak), 17 dex, 20 charisma (hot)
Race is half demon (mechanically tiefling)

Backstory is he was the runt of the litter in a gang of war demon desert raiders from a place which is half mad max and half old west. His part of the gang was to pretend to be an innocent bystander to help set up ambushes or scout for raids.

My main problems are, we have another teifling in the party and I thought it would be fun if they were diffrent. The other one is from fantasy Denmark and is based on one of those Satan goats, so he has 4 goat horns and completely black eyes. So I want to do something that isn't goatlike. Also I want to make it clear he is technically a savage demon not a suave devil.

Gms only ruleing is he had to look overtly demonic, doesn't have to horns but at least one major feature.

So what do you think? What do those stats look Like? How can I make him demonic but not a goat like?

Any ideas?

Any chance you have a below average Constitution score? It would let you pick a sickly version of whatever.

Assuming your Con is in the normal range:

I think the problems you are having are caused by the range of scores you have.

Lets analyze how I think of these scores:

Strength 5 Weak, knocked off balance by swinging something heavy.

This is not necessarily sickly. Most healthy retirement age gals I know can no longer swing a baseball bat. Soccer moms? There are a few at every game I go to who can't.

Dexterity 17 Stands out in athletics or finesse sword skills. Not what I think of when I think of the elderly.

The difference of 12 is complicating things! 17 is a near gymnast! Human male and female gymnasts are decently strong also.

Charisma 20 Your character is one of the people the song Cult of Personality was about. So they should be engaging and more likely than not attractive.

So to keep with the spirit I'd say:

Make a smaller than average human character to help reduce the expectation of strength. This can be a young whatever as even small young elephant shaves a few strength points off an adult.

Have the character be a natural athlete but never have pursued it.

With the beautifully high Charisma I imagine a wealthy background. They'd have servants to have done the manual labor which would have helped with strength. They'd be educated well in the ways of speaking, playing instruments and the like.

Spoiled wealthy 4'10" demon more outgoing version of Joffrey Baratheon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joffrey_Baratheon) from Game of Thrones Season 1 or Princess Leia?

[Unoriginal]

STR 5 is pretty sickly

[MarkVIIIMarc]

STR 5 is pretty sickly

This begs the question for the creators.

Gimme an example of strength 5?

Does my 60 pound 6 year old have Strength 5?

Our elderly Grandmothers?

Strength 5 is statistically pretty low so I'm thinking adult male humans in normal health are virtually never strength 5.

The challenge of this character is they are healthy, quite coordinated and a 5.

[Hrugner]

Your strength score is whatever strength you have in excess of what you need for holding yourself up and moving yourself around. Since you're very agile, you aught to be fairly strong in a general sense, but you lack the ability to leverage that strength. I recommend basing your character on the shadow demon. Lean but well muscled, all black with glowing eyes, reflects light poorly, not incorporeal but seemingly insubstantial weighing much less than he aught and struggling to interact with the world at full strength.

Alternately, you could pattern them off of a Babou making them tall and extremely lanky. That seems less fun though.

[Unoriginal]

Gimme an example of strength 5?

With strength 5, you can carry about as much as your common hawk or your common eagle.

[smcmike]

With strength 5, you can carry about as much as your common hawk or your common eagle.

Funny, since the rules say you can carry up to 75 pounds. A hawk can't do that. Maybe a very large eagle, though I doubt it.

Unnaturally tall and skinny works pretty well - snakelike movement, with no power behind it.

[Eldan]

I'd assume STR 5 is as much weaker than STR10 as STR 10 is weaker than STR 15.

[Unoriginal]

Funny, since the rules say you can carry up to 75 pounds. A hawk can't do that. Maybe a very large eagle, though I doubt it.

Maybe not when flying. But hawks and eagles both have 5 in STR, and so could have that much on a backpack.

STR 5 is also how strong a Quasit is.

[smcmike]

Maybe not when flying. But hawks and eagles both have 5 in STR, and so could have that much on a backpack.

Hawks are tiny, which halves their carrying capacity.

Eagles are small, and have strength 6. They can carry way more than hawks.

I think it's a mistake to try to use the animal stats as a comparison point, though. They are pretty rough, and size complicates matters.

[Unoriginal]

Hawks are tiny, which halves their carrying capacity.

Eagles are small, and have strength 6. They can carry way more than hawks.

Fair enough, I was mistaken then.



I think it's a mistake to try to use the animal stats as a comparison point, though. They are pretty rough, and size complicates matters.

Eh, it depends.

We know a STR 16 human is as strong as an ape, for exemple. It is a good comparison point. If the comparison was with a horse or a killer whale or a swarm, it's true it'd be more sketchy.

[smcmike]

We know a STR 16 human is as strong as an ape, for exemple. It is a good comparison point. If the comparison was with a horse or a killer whale or a swarm, it's true it'd be more sketchy.

My point is that our overall project here seems to be an attempt to translate strength scores in game to something recognizable in the real world, in order to better picture a character. Translating them through a rough generalization of real-world animals does not seem to help that project. What is an "Ape?" A 27 kg female chimpanzee, or a 230 kg silverback gorilla?

[Beaureguard]

I played a Necromancer that had an abysmally low strength score a couple years back. I described him as an experiment of he former master. His arms and legs had all been removed and an incorporeal undead bound to his soul replacing his limbs with ghostly versions. He could barely interact with the real world because his arms and legs would just pass through most solid objects. Over time the undead would weaken and be destroyed so he had to constantly change it out which allowed for interesting options from shadows, specters, ghosts, wraiths, and even one time a banshee.

I like this way of going about it. Not actually taking the Necromancer story, but working some sort of peculiarity into your backstory that makes it make sense. Being a half demon, maybe the manifestation of the demon blood is more limb or torso affecting than is normal. Instead of having lizard eyes, maybe you have a lizard torso and legs. Lithe, but not very strong. Octopus arms, frog legs, or bird body could all help account for low STR and higher dex.

If you're worried about strange appearance and the high CHA, remember that people like Charles Manson would have a super high CHA. Jerry Falwell, Jim Jones, and Winston Churchill were all very charismatic men, and pretty ugly (by my personal standards anyway). CHA measures your personality, not your looks. A beautiful person can have a low CHA score if they're unpleasant, annoying, and vapid. Don't get me wrong, looks don't hurt, but they're not a requirement.

[Unoriginal]

My point is that our overall project here seems to be an attempt to translate strength scores in game to something recognizable in the real world, in order to better picture a character. Translating them through a rough generalization of real-world animals does not seem to help that project. What is an "Ape?" A 27 kg female chimpanzee, or a 230 kg silverback gorilla?

Gorilla or Orangutan, the chimpanzee is too small for that statblock.

[BestPlayer]

Sounds like D.J. Qualls.

[N810]

He'd probably be about this
Maybe just give him a Tiefling tail or somethinghttp://www.entertainmentearth.com/images/AUTOIMAGES/DC80761lg.jpg

[BestPlayer]

Or maybe he's really short.

[smcmike]

Gorilla or Orangutan, the chimpanzee is too small for that statblock.

How about a 60kg male chimp? Also, 16 is wildly low for the strength of a silverback (and, by some measures, probably also for that 60kg chimp).

[Unoriginal]

Also, 16 is wildly low for the strength of a silverback (and, by some measures, probably also for that 60kg chimp).

How is 16 low?

[smcmike]

How is 16 low?

Have you ever seen a gorilla? Come on man.

[Unoriginal]

Have you ever seen a gorilla? Come on man.

I've seen gorillas, yes. That doesn't explain anything about what you mean, I'm afraid.

[hamishspence]

Have you ever seen a gorilla? Come on man.

3e gave Quadrupeds better lifting capacity than bipeds - and a gorilla's standard posture is quadrupedal.

I'm not sure if 5e does the same.

[smcmike]

I've seen gorillas, yes. That doesn't explain anything about what you mean, I'm afraid.

I fear you are being deliberately obtuse. Having seen a silverback gorilla, you believe that a significant portion of humanity is stronger than said gorilla. Ok.

[Unoriginal]

I fear you are being deliberately obtuse. Having seen a silverback gorilla, you believe that a significant portion of humanity is stronger than said gorilla. Ok.

...what?

A significant portion of humanity doesn't have STR 16. STR 16 is exceptional, and it would be even rarer if D&D wasn't fantasy. Someone with STR 16 is generally the kind of people who go on to fight monsters like ogres and dragons.

Most human beings don't go above 10 in STR.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

...what?

A significant portion of humanity doesn't have STR 16. STR 16 is exceptional, and it would be even rarer if D&D wasn't fantasy. Someone with STR 16 is generally the kind of people who go on to fight monsters like ogres and dragons.

Most human beings don't go above 10 in STR.

I think the questiom could be reworded as, is any man stronger than a non diseased silverback?

Not having a weight lifting facility for great apes I will hazard a guess at "no" being the answer.

The stat system isn't perfect. I would guess the chances of rolling an 18 on 3D6 at ~1 in 216. So I would have given silverbacks a 19 Strength myself as maybe, possibly, once someone where there is/was a man stronger than the greatest ape but its pretty rare.

[N810]

Some stats from the encumbrance rules.

If you have ST20 you can carry 300lbs. max.
If you have ST16 you can carry 240lbs. max.
If you have ST10 you can carry 150lbs. max.
If you have ST5 you can carry 75lbs. max.

[smcmike]

...what?

A significant portion of humanity doesn't have STR 16. STR 16 is exceptional, and it would be even rarer if D&D wasn't fantasy. Someone with STR 16 is generally the kind of people who go on to fight monsters like ogres and dragons.

Most human beings don't go above 10 in STR.

What do you base this assertion on?

[Unoriginal]

I think the questiom could be reworded as, is any man stronger than a non diseased silverback?

Not having a weight lifting facility for great apes I will hazard a guess at "no" being the answer.

The stat system isn't perfect. I would guess the chances of rolling an 18 on 3D6 at ~1 in 216. So I would have given silverbacks a 19 Strength myself as maybe, possibly, once someone where there is/was a man stronger than the greatest ape but its pretty rare.

You're assuming that D&D humans have the same kind of physical limits than real life humans have, or that the strongest real life human would also be the strongest in D&D world.

Those are not correct assumptions.

A STR 18 human can lift a 540lbs weight above their head without any effort and stand like that for hours, even walk around with the weight. This is not a feat people are capable of in our world, as far as I'm aware.

[smcmike]

You're assuming that D&D humans have the same kind of physical limits than real life humans have, or that the strongest real life human would also be the strongest in D&D world.

Those are not correct assumptions.

Because it is a set of rules designed to roughly approximate reality, in order to easily play a game. Not because the humans described in that game are fundamentally different from real humans.


A STR 18 human can lift a 540lbs weight


Accurate so far. A real human has deadlifted over 1,000 pounds, though.



above their head

This is not clearly stated anywhere in the rules. For what it's worth, a real human has lifted 580 lbs overhead.



without any effort

This is an odd thing to say. It would be accurate to say "with no chance of failure," but there is no way to quantify "effort" on the part of a character. My character tries very hard, thank you very much.


and stand like that for hours,

There is no rules support for this statement, and this would surely qualify as "laboring for hours without rest," a constitution check.


even walk around with the weight.

Oh really? That's not what my rule book says at all.

[Unoriginal]

What do you base this assertion on?

On the fact that Commoners have STR 10, and that guards and tribal warriors (who represent "rank-and-file humanoid trained to fight in melee ") have 13. Not to mention how the STR of other non-melee combatant NPC tend to be be around 10. Among the ones who have STR 16, the Berserker, the Knight and the Veteran are all elite combatants who are roughly equal to a lvl 8 PC, while the War Priest from the Volo's is considered to be a good candidate as second-in-command and battlefield leader for legendary warlords.



Aside from that, a list of other beings with STR 16 according to the MM:

-Basilisk (is noted to break stone with its jaws).

-Couatl

-Barbed Devil

-Bearded Devil (Hell's shock troopers)

-Drider

-Ghast

-Githyanki Knight (who are the elite fighters of their people)

-Sea Hag

-Half-Red Dragon Veteran

-Hobgoblin Warlord (by definition the best humanoid combatant of their armies)

-Invisible Stalker

-Kuo-Toa Archpriest

-Lamia

-Mummy

-Black Pudding

-Orc

-Orc Eye of Gruumsh

-Otyugh

-Peryton

-Red Slaad

-Vampire Spawn

-Yuan-Ti Malison

-Ultroloth

-Ape

-Camel

-Elk

-Giant Eagle

-Giant Hyena

-Riding Horse

-Worg

[Unoriginal]

Because it is a set of rules designed to roughly approximate reality, in order to easily play a game. Not because the humans described in that game are fundamentally different from real humans.

No, it's a game about fantasy humanoids fighting fantasy creatures. The person "roughly approximating reality" is a Commoner and other low CR mooks, not the heroes.



Accurate so far. A real human has deadlifted over 1,000 pounds, though.

Deadlifting would be an Athleticism check.




This is an odd thing to say. It would be accurate to say "with no chance of failure," but there is no way to quantify "effort" on the part of a character. My character tries very hard, thank you very much.

Fine by me, but I wouldn't say that something done without chance of failure constitute an "effort"



There is no rules support for this statement, and this would surely qualify as "laboring for hours without rest," a constitution check.

I disagree, but even if it required a constitution check lifting 500+lbs for hours without rest still would be more than what humans can do in RL.




Oh really? That's not what my rule book says at all.

There is nothing saying that you can't walk while lifting above your carrying capacity. You'll just be slow.

[smcmike]

No, it's a game about fantasy humanoids fighting fantasy creatures. The person "roughly approximating reality" is a Commoner and other low CR mooks, not the heroes.


So LeBron James, you, me, and my mom all have 10 strength, eh?



Deadlifting would be an Athleticism check.


I tend to agree, but you are beyond what is stated in RAW.



Fine by me, but I wouldn't say that something done without chance of failure constitute an "effort"

I went on a run yesterday. There was effectively no chance that I would not complete the run. It took significant effort!



There is nothing saying that you can't walk while lifting above your carrying capacity. You'll just be slow.

Where are you getting this? The "carry" limit is 15x.

[assafelron]

Probably too late, but I would make a boy-like character (goes well with your feign distress story), looks naive, beautiful, but with one disturbing feature that you notice only when you get closer, like a set of blind eyes on the palm of his hands, or a second disfunctional\eyeless (or not) face at the side of his face, or something completely different like cockroches that are always walking on him, and you only notice it when you get closer, or some combination of thise things.
I think low strength, high dex high cha goes well with a child-like character.