PDA

View Full Version : Keeping track of locations in a city



heavyfuel
2017-07-03, 11:48 PM
I'm planning a big city that will be played during the next campaign. The general idea is that at least 90% of the adventure will take part IN the city (players are ok with this, so no need to worry about them leaving to explore different locations)

In the brief time did play this city for, I noticed one very big problem:

How do I keep track of locations?

It's such a non-issue in most campaigns that it'd never occurred to me.

What I did last time was put numbers on the map, and explain what each number was on the other side of the paper.
This was a sub-par method at best as it got increasingly difficult to remember the number of that one house they went to that one time due to ever expanding amount of numbers on the map.

And we only played it for a couple of months. This time I'm hoping for something more lasting, so this problem has a tendency to grow

Any ideas are very welcome.

Lacco
2017-07-04, 12:18 AM
I'm planning a big city that will be played during the next campaign. The general idea is that at least 90% of the adventure will take part IN the city (players are ok with this, so no need to worry about them leaving to explore different locations)

In the brief time did play this city for, I noticed one very big problem:

How do I keep track of locations?

It's such a non-issue in most campaigns that it'd never occurred to me.

What I did last time was put numbers on the map, and explain what each number was on the other side of the paper.
This was a sub-par method at best as it got increasingly difficult to remember the number of that one house they went to that one time due to ever expanding amount of numbers on the map.

And we only played it for a couple of months. This time I'm hoping for something more lasting, so this problem has a tendency to grow

Any ideas are very welcome.

Check Angry DM's article on abstract dungeoneering - it can be easily adapted for large city.

Also: you don't have to place everything on map at first. Just have a list handy and when they find something, let them mark it on the map and just have notes.

Knaight
2017-07-04, 12:29 AM
I'd go with a map - but a pretty low detail one, more at the level of "Residential District" than "Road Street Intersection". Then just note what district locations are in, possibly with something that notes where in the district (and I mean something like "North" or "Central", not GPS coordinates).

heavyfuel
2017-07-04, 12:30 AM
Check Angry DM's article on abstract dungeoneering - it can be easily adapted for large city.

Also: you don't have to place everything on map at first. Just have a list handy and when they find something, let them mark it on the map and just have notes.

Will do.

As for the 2nd part, it is exactly what I did last time. While it is impossible to do everything beforehand, simply keeping notes isnt enough as soon as more and more places start to appear. Unless there is something to help with note keeping.

Thanks

heavyfuel
2017-07-04, 12:33 AM
I'd go with a map - but a pretty low detail one, more at the level of "Residential District" than "Road Street Intersection". Then just note what district locations are in, possibly with something that notes where in the district (and I mean something like "North" or "Central", not GPS coordinates).

The map is already pretty high detail :smallbiggrin: While they dont have names, every street and house is on there

I want it to feel like a real city, but I also want some simple way to note down locations.

Mechalich
2017-07-04, 12:46 AM
I suggest taking advantage of technology here. Digitize your map (just scan it in as a large image) and then put numbers onto it digitally - ideally use a program that allows you to keep the numbers in a different layer from the image, and potentially make different copies to prevent clutter (you can also do something like use different colors to represent the type of building or something). Then you reference your numbers in a spreadsheet. You'll probably be okay so long as you take notes every session and digitize them afterward.

Storm_Of_Snow
2017-07-04, 03:33 AM
You could always say that they moved out of that shop to somewhere else. :smallwink:

Certain trades will stick together - you might have a street of locksmiths, merchants warehouses would either be close to the docks or the city gates, tanners will be near to the slaughterhouses, and if they're actually in the city they'll be on the outskirts or close to the slum district, although leatherworkers could be elsewhere in the city (those that make clothing items with the tailors, saddlemakers out by the gates with the stables), while trades like blacksmiths and bakers would likely be part of the community, but would almost certainly be made of brick or stone to reduce the risk of fire levelling the area and may well be physically separate from other buildings.

Important locations (entrance gates, city rulers palace, main watch house and barracks, market square, temple to the main deity and so on) should also be pre-positioned if you haven't done so already (which will help position supporting trades as well), and, along with trades taking a street and effectively having it named for their trade (Key Street for locksmiths, Candle Lane for candlemakers and so on, although the origins of Grape Street apparently have nothing to do with wine :smallwink:) will help you name the main thoroughfares.

It might also be worth pre-positioning some more minor locations and having others floating until you put them in place - say you want some taverns, you'd put a rough one at the docks, a posh one near the nobles district, a couple on the market square, then have three or four others fully detailed, but ready to drop in place when your players decide they want a drink and go to the nearest one.

Frozen_Feet
2017-07-04, 04:05 AM
Vornheim has pretty good rules for urban adventures. If you don't want to buy the book, I recall you can find a lot (most?) of the rules on Zak Smith's blog. (Playing D&D with Pornstars.)

But in general: your amount of notes will keep growing no matter how you try to tackle this. It's not possible to flesh out a city without serious paperwork. Try making a "phonebook" for your city where you have all the important people in alpabetical order, accompanied with their locations.

heavyfuel
2017-07-04, 10:06 AM
Check Angry DM's article on abstract dungeoneering - it can be easily adapted for large city.

So, I just did and I'll be honest that I don't like it. I don't want it to be abstract, I want it to feel real. Like, get a measuring tape and see the number of minutes you'll spend walking to a specific shop, and then to another, and then back to your house.


I suggest taking advantage of technology here. Digitize your map (just scan it in as a large image) and then put numbers onto it digitally - ideally use a program that allows you to keep the numbers in a different layer from the image, and potentially make different copies to prevent clutter (you can also do something like use different colors to represent the type of building or something). Then you reference your numbers in a spreadsheet. You'll probably be okay so long as you take notes every session and digitize them afterward.

I already have a digital copy of it. I have adobe illustrator available, so it should work.

Keeping the numbers colour-coded is pretty nifty. I think I'll do just that. Thanks!


You could always say that they moved out of that shop to somewhere else. :smallwink:
[snip]

They shouldn't move shop every session though :smallbiggrin:

The rest is all around good advice, but doesn't really help me with this specific bookkeeping problem


Vornheim has pretty good rules for urban adventures. If you don't want to buy the book, I recall you can find a lot (most?) of the rules on Zak Smith's blog. (Playing D&D with Pornstars.)

But in general: your amount of notes will keep growing no matter how you try to tackle this. It's not possible to flesh out a city without serious paperwork. Try making a "phonebook" for your city where you have all the important people in alpabetical order, accompanied with their locations.

Huh, he's got some pretty cool stuff overall. It'll take some time for me to read all the posts that interest me

The phonebook idea is pretty cool. Having a separate file for this. Thanks!

EccentricCircle
2017-07-04, 10:58 AM
I tend to have a large, but not particularly detailed map of the city which is marked with the major wards and districts, city gates, bridges and the like.

To this I add a few "places of interest" for each ward. That way you can see where things like the Emperor's Palace, the main markets, or the bathhouse is with fairly easily.

I find that actually drawing in every street is a disadvantage, as you are then locked into a certain pattern of streets and have to refer to the map whenever you narrate movement through the city. After doing this a couple of times I decided that it was simpler to just draw a rough line on my map to show the route of any named street that comes up during play, but not worry too much about where all the alleys are. That way as they explore the city you gradually build up more detail as it is needed.

Whenever you describe a location mark it on both your map and the players map, and draw in any street intersections, market squares or notable features which you will need to be able to reference again in the future.

Every so often it might be worth updating your digital copy with these details. Some people keep a list of street names and tavern names handy to be assigned on the fly. If you are good enough at coming up with names in play you can probably forgo this step.

If you want to get really technical and have a spreadsheet or database of city locations then you could set up what is called a Geographic Information System or "GIS". This is basically a spatial database with a map interface. Free software such as QGIS is available online, although obviously it is intended for Earth Science and City planning rather than gaming, so is kind of overkill in some ways.

Nonetheless if you want a way to quickly query a point on your map and see the database record for it then a GIS is the way to go. It can be a little fiddly to set up a map for a fictional place, but it is doable if you write a "world file" to go with your map image.

KillianHawkeye
2017-07-04, 11:21 AM
While putting numbers on a map with notes as to their meaning is the classic method (seen in many D&D published adventures), you can enhance this method using a simple grid system. You can denote sections across the top of your map using letters and down the side using numbers (like a spreadsheet) to divide the map into a number of equal-sized square areas. You can then make notes about which things are in which area so that you can find everything on the map easier. For example, you can make a note that the Quest Giver's house is on the corner of 1st Street and Avenue A in Area C3. Then when the PCs want to go there, you can easily compare their current location to the whereabouts of Area C3 to get a rough estimate on the travel time or whatever.

Another thing you might do, if your city is really as detailed as you say, is use actual street addresses. It should end up being easier to read and easier to use than having a bunch of random numerical notes scattered across the map. I mean really, trying to have a map of a city that also has the details of every building and what they contain is not traditionally something that maps are capable of doing. Google Maps can do it, more or less, if you zoom in far enough, but they're really going above and beyond the basic duties of a street map at this point.

Darth Ultron
2017-07-04, 09:13 PM
City adventures can have a need for a lot of book keeping. You just have to do it.

1.Instead of numbers abbreviate the name of the place. The Wild Goose Tavern becomes WGT, for example. You will need to make each place unique though and avoid TTT for The Troll Tavern and The Trent Tavern and The Trout Tavern.

2.It also works if you make two maps, one number one and one abbreviation one that you can put side by side.

3.Colors work too. Red for taverns, Blue for shops, gray for homes. And so on.

4.Try and make places in the city easy to remember by name and location. The Icy Wolf Tavern is in...the north part of the city. Sandar's potion shop is in the south part of the city (sand in the desert..)

5.Street names work great. They help narrow down the city. You will know that High Trade Way is a street full of expensive shops. Sleepy Meows Street is all houses. Ratdoom alley is a dangerous place.

KillianHawkeye
2017-07-04, 09:51 PM
Sleepy Meows Street

Sleepy Meows Street? Was that a typo? I wanna live there! :smallbiggrin:

Lvl 2 Expert
2017-07-05, 03:40 AM
It might also help to sort of attach the places to both neighborhoods and some sort of main routes through the city. Both your favorite restaurant and your contact inside the human smuggling ring are located in the Chinatown/Asian ghetto section of the city (stereotype much?), which sits between the city center and the western inner ring road. The warehouse with the big skylights everyone keeps jumping through, the dock where John likes to meet up for business and that ship the players are having refurbished are all in the main industrial part of the harbor, outside the outer ring road, near where it crosses Kennedy lane, the northern continuation of Main Street. At the base of this street, just outside the real center, there's an area with all the sort of weird shops. A huge liquor store, a lot of shops with foreign goods, any small old fashioned shop selling wooden toys or second hand books. In other words: try to make parts of the map into actual areas, in such a way that if players forget where something was they'll still head in the right direction automatically. They need to hit the car parts shop, the electronics store and the bank? Let's do those first two first, they're near each other.

In fact, wherever possible draw inspiration from any cities you have experience with. That will help the layout feel natural. After all, if at least one city has that part over there, it can't be that bad an idea can it?

Storm_Of_Snow
2017-07-05, 04:36 AM
They shouldn't move shop every session though :smallbiggrin:

Depends on how much damage happens while the PCs are coincidentally in the area. :smallamused:



The rest is all around good advice, but doesn't really help me with this specific bookkeeping problem

I think the best solutions have already been said - either use addresses or set up a GIS system, depending on whether you use your PC at the table or not.

Mastikator
2017-07-05, 07:14 AM
The map is already pretty high detail :smallbiggrin: While they dont have names, every street and house is on there

I want it to feel like a real city, but I also want some simple way to note down locations.

Whether it feels like a real city is going to depend on what's going on between the ears of the players more so than the map you make.

Cities are more than just a bunch of locations of houses, cities are alive and busy, at any given moment the players should be bombarded with too much information about what's going on.

Just keeping track of locations is something computers are really good at and people not. Use a map on a computer, use excel or something IMO.