Cleric Subclass

[Peterchapman89]

We are starting our first Campaign, after a tutorial run through.
We have 2 fighters, one an arcane archer, the other and eldritch knight, a warlock, and a monk, class not known. I will be a cleric, but am having a hard time choosing which domain to be.
Knowledge looks like it would be good as we have no Rouge, light looks like it would be good for a ranged attacker with some great spells, and tempest is where I'm leaning. Any thoughts? What have you played and liked?

[qube]

played both knowledge & healing - both were fun to play. (depending on your type of campaign; if you frequent combat, healing can be a very capable option)

[Ninja_Prawn]

light looks like it would be good for a ranged attacker with some great spells

With two fighters and a warlock in the party, a Light cleric won't have much to do. I'd go for one of the more supportive domains; it doesn't really matter which since all clerics have the freedom of their spell list.

[Sir cryosin]

I've only played a Arcane domain cleric from the Scag. Where do you see this cleric standing in battle and what is he doing. I played my vhuman feat healer arcane cleric as a battlemage. A arcana cleric gets two free wizard cantrips as cleric cantrips. So I picked green flame blade & firebolt. I went sword & board. I would cast shield of fate on the barbarian to up her ac because she was the main frontliner. I would have healing word prepared (not cure wounds) to pick people up (only after they drop to zero). For healing I would hold off tell after a fight then I would use a med kit to heal first. Then after the next fight we take a short rest and use hit dice. Then my med kits recharge. I would just alternate using hit dice and med kits for health. I only using spell slots to heal either at the end of the day or in times of severely needed.

So I was a Frontliner so my go to spells were pop spirt Guardian's, spiritual weapon and green flame blade. When I had to fall back I used firebolt, guiding bolt

Tip's
The spell Aid is a nice pick up from zero on up to 3 at once.
If your playing a back role caster the spell warding bond is a decent buff that often get over looked.
For any cleric it better, easyer, cheaper to mitigate damage than to heal damaged.

[Marvnmartian]

looks like you need a typical face/support magic for that party unless the warlock is gonna face it up.

If multiclassing is allowed I would either go with knowledge 1 or life 1 then bard x. knowledge for more skills to take care of intelligence checks since the EK is likely gonna go the dump route as most do. or go life if you think your party is abit careless and could use the aura of healing and goodberry tricks for your magical secrets at 7.

but if not able to multiclass then I would go life. knowledges other subclass abilities are kinda meh to me and life is kinda weird in that basically all the abilities are a little fun and slightly add on to the class but it comes down to the passive beacon of hope at 17 vs the level 17 ability to get information on an item so i would go life in comparison.

[Galadhrim]

It looks like the rest of your party could cover many roles depending how the monk amd warlock are built but i agree with above that a knowledge cleric could fill some big gaps for this party. Almost all are effective. I loved my tempest cleric and had a lot of fun with a knowledge 1/ divination wizard x multiclass. I would say see what subclass abilities look the most fun and go with that. I loved the control and nova damage that tempest added to base cleric spell list.

[Citan]

We are starting our first Campaign, after a tutorial run through.
We have 2 fighters, one an arcane archer, the other and eldritch knight, a warlock, and a monk, class not known. I will be a cleric, but am having a hard time choosing which domain to be.
Knowledge looks like it would be good as we have no Rouge, light looks like it would be good for a ranged attacker with some great spells, and tempest is where I'm leaning. Any thoughts? What have you played and liked?
Honestly if you want to really create someone who complements others it depends very much on what your friends will choose.

What does a party usually need anyways?
- Healing: whatever Cleric you take, this is covered.
- Buffs: basically the same (some Domain provides more buff choices, but the essential ones are available to all Clerics).
- Sneaking: Silence is on Cleric list, Trickery would bring the great Pass Without Trace. BUT if your Monk friend goes Shadow, if can take care of it as well (better in fact since it keeps your own concentration free for something else).
- AOE: a Fiend Warlock would cover this part well. Otherwise there is certainly a slot to pick here (to be honest, any Warlock could pick Shatter, but there are many great spells for them to know, and few known so...).
- Tanking. The Eldricht Knight will probably stand on the melee. All others though can't count as "melee stickies": Warlock has low HP and AC unless specific optimization so will either stand back and Eldricht Blast or hit & run with weapons as a Bladelock, Monk is slightly better in both cases but will still usually exploit his mobility to hit & run, Archer has 0 reason not to be far away. So, there is a STRONG spot missing here (only one people with melee resilience is usually not a good idea, unless other people actively control the battlefield with buffs/push/pull/blocks/etc).
- Control: Monk could provide soft control (Long Death / Open Hand), Warlock good single-target control (Hold Person / Crown of Madness / Patron spells) or decent battlefield control (Darkness). Others shouldn't be accounted for, unless the Eldricht Knight builds specifically as a Grappler/Shover. There is also a spot to take here, although as a Cleric you already get a few situational tools, such as Command.

Considering all that, I'd strongly suggest, in descending order of preference...

1. Tempest
Basically the best fit for you whatever way you look at it: heavy armor proficiency (so you can stick your ass out there to help tanking, especially with a useful "spike damage" reaction), low-level battlefield control (Fog Cloud), escape spell (Thunderwave), powerful occasional AOE (channel Divinity + Shatter), then later more AOE/control (Call Lightning, Sleet Storm, Ice Storm, Destructive Wave).
Even a decent ranged or melee weapon attack thanks to martial weapons proficiency + Thunderbolt Strike.
Otherwise said, provides strong features in all lacking fields.
(Grab Booming Blade one way or another and you are golden, since it stacks with level 8th feature as well as CD's maximize damage. Also, so thematic!! ;)).
(Also, Call Ligthning technically can stack with level 6 feature ;)).

2. Nature
Great contender: helps much in tanking (heavy armor), provides a good cantrip (Produce Flame, Shillelagh, Magic Stone even), an unlimited defensive ability as a reaction against elemental damage, great control spells (Spike Growth, Plant Growth, Wind Wall). Channel Divinity options are situational though, and maybe useless for your campaign I don't know (don't know your campaign).

3a. Light
A pretty decent contender: Faerie Fire as an alternative to Bless to help everyone with attacks, several options to shape AOE damage, and a WIS-limited reaction to help protect the Fighter.
Good choice if Warlock is not interested in any blasting, because at least you become great blaster. Otherwise, you can safely put it aside imo.

3b Trickery
An often underestimated Domain. Brings immense benefit in sneaking (Blessing on your heavy armor EK friend + Pass Without Trace), great utility spells for spying / social encounters (Disguise Self, Charm Person), very good buffs (Mirror Image / Blink), good utility (Dimension Door), and a duplicate which allows you to safely cast any close-range spell from a safe distance (especially "tricky ones" XD such as Bestow Curse, but honestly all spells really benefit from an expanded range).
Problem is, if your friend goes Shadow Monk, a good third of domain benefits becomes redundant, and as great as Mirror Image is, it's still less than having a permanent heavy armor.

3c War
If you plan on maximizing the "tanking" part, War can be a great choice for a single reason: Crusader's Mantle: with you, Monk and EK, possibly Warlock, making melee attacks, it's a good, damage-oriented alternative to Bless.
You also get heavy armor and "Precision" CD. Not bad. :)
With that said, one could rightly argue that Bless as a party buff and Spirit Guardians as a tanking help (which are both available to all Clerics) should be enough to use your slots anyways. XD

The dropouts
a) Knowledge: unless you really wants to be a skill Monkey OR the EK really didn't pick any INT-related skills and Warlock does not want any "party-face" role, you can really do without the channel divinity: the two Fighters should be able to be the references in physical skills (with EK covering Investigation), Warlock would cover the usual CHA ones, and Monk and you the WIS ones and the "knowledge ones" if need be.

b) Arcana: CD is great but mainly at much higher levels, the 17th level feature is absolutely loveable -but it's 17th level, very far away-, while the weapon cantrips could be easily gotten with a Magic Initiate (or a dip). And prepared spells, while nice overall, are not necessarily what your party lacks the most.

c) Death: in DMG so not sure if allowed.

d) Life: great for healing, and provides heavy armor. But basically nothing else, and being just extra good at healing won't always be the good solution.

>>> Because you didn't tell about UA allowed or not, Id's say Tempest. Without any hesitations (unless a) your party likes sneaks and ambushes and b) Monk didn't go Shadow). ;)
You get:
- good battlefield control (aforementioned spells + push on lightning damage);
- decent single-target damage (weapon attack + Thunderbolt Strike)
- great single-target nova damage (Spell Sniper feat: Booming Blade with a whip + Thunderbolt Strike + Channel Divinity to maximize damage);
- decent AOE damage (Shatter, later Sleet Storm, Ice Storm, Destructive Wave);
- great AOE nova damage (maximized upcast Shatter, Destructive Wave).
- great tanking (heavy armor + WIS push/damage reaction).
- should you manage to go that far, extreme mobility (fly).

[Peterchapman89]

Unearthed is totally game, and I think a tank/support role is needed. Leaning on tempest and grave domain.

[Willie the Duck]

Unearthed is totally game, and I think a tank/support role is needed. Leaning on tempest and grave domain.

For a tempest character (or any martial weapon-having character), you will have more uses for your ASIs than you will have ASIs to spend. Strength, Wisdom, War Caster (vital if you want to wade into melee while keeping concentration spells up), and combat feats (PAM, Sentinel, GWM, Magic Initiate to get booming blade). Are you rolling stats, array, or points?

Grave cleric has a number of interesting spells. What it doesn't have is a specific role to play in a combat. You can pick up a moderate Str (enough to wear that heavy armor at a reasonable speed) and just whack with a mace while using your support spells. You can (by being a dwarf or a slowpoke) rely on the heavy armor, but just call in combat cantrips. In both cases, these are relatively tame, but when you want to burn spells, you can add this to spiritual weapon/spirit guardians, the combined might of which is genuine melee goodness).

[Peterchapman89]

Sorry, my rolled stats are 17, 16, 14, 12 12 and 9. I like the idea of grave channel divinity, as well as going into nettle with either a maul, or shield and warhammer. Grabbing warcaster, maybe shield master, resilient for con saves.
Hill dwarf- 18 wis, 16 strength, 12 dex + int, 16 con, 9 charisma. Tempest has better aoes, and grave has features I love.

[Citan]

For a tempest character (or any martial weapon-having character), you will have more uses for your ASIs than you will have ASIs to spend. Strength, Wisdom, War Caster (vital if you want to wade into melee while keeping concentration spells up), and combat feats (PAM, Sentinel, GWM, Magic Initiate to get booming blade). Are you rolling stats, array, or points?

Grave cleric has a number of interesting spells. What it doesn't have is a specific role to play in a combat. You can pick up a moderate Str (enough to wear that heavy armor at a reasonable speed) and just whack with a mace while using your support spells. You can (by being a dwarf or a slowpoke) rely on the heavy armor, but just call in combat cantrips. In both cases, these are relatively tame, but when you want to burn spells, you can add this to spiritual weapon/spirit guardians, the combined might of which is genuine melee goodness).
Tempest Cleric is really not that MAD as you portray it to be. ;) He has not a true duty to grab all the combat related feats.
Just Warcaster really is necessary, because you usually want to keep a shield around and it helps with concentration. Adding Magic Initiate to it is golden. Everything else is plain cherry on the cake, but absolutely not necessary stricto sensu. After all, Cleric, even Tempest, is still a Cleric at core: a fullcaster. It's not supposed to be great at both spellcasting and weapon fightning at the same time, so it's natural that you generally have to choose either path to focus on.

Now, considering OP's great stats, you really could go at it several ways...

1. Either stay a WIS-tempest, with strong melee, using CD mainly on cantrip for a while then on AOE: then the Hilld Dwarf is a nice choice. Grab Spell Sniper for Booming Blade (or Magic Initiate for it and Lightning Lure) and you are set.

2. Either go WIS-tempest, with strong magic attacks, and put the 16 in Charisma as a Half-Elf instead so you can dip one level in Draconic or Storm Sorcerer (Constitution proficiency if you start as, but both are good, Shield, Chromatic Bolt, Shocking Grasp, Booming Blade, Lightning Lure, GreenFlame Blade): You could even use the starting 16 to get 18 WIS and 18 CHA but then you'd be slow in armor, so it's a bit overkill: starting with 18 WIS, 16 CHA, 16 CON and 14 DEX is very easy though.

3. Either go STR-tempest, using CD solely on bonus damage from cantrip, then get a starting 18 in STR, keep WIS at 18 because you will usually use buffs rather than direct damage spells and rack up on all the weapon related feats.

For Tempest and those stats, I'd probably go option 2, unless I'd be sure that I can reach the capstone before years. XD

[Willie the Duck]

Sorry, my rolled stats are 17, 16, 14, 12 12 and 9.

No need to apologize, no one yet asked.


I like the idea of grave channel divinity, as well as going into nettle with either a maul, or shield and warhammer.

If you're going to go into nettle, I would suggest a druid instead. :smalltongue: However, going into battle with shield and warhammer is possible. However, that's just doing 7.5*chance of hitting. Maul is 10*chance. My opinion (and others disagree) is that if you are going to bother going a strength-combat route (given the advantages that the Dex route gives), you're best served by going either GWF/GWM, or PAM/Sentinel.


Grabbing warcaster, maybe shield master, resilient for con saves.
Well, warcaster and resilient:con are obvious in their purpose. Shield master... I think works better for fighters, barbarians, or StRogues. The pushing someone over for advantage is nice and all, but it only gives you and increased chance of doing your 7.5 damage/round. That's... not worth your bonus action.

[Peterchapman89]

Thanks all for the input, I'm still trying to decide. I've narrowed it down to tempest, grave or arcana, maybe even nature. We need a tank, as we have 3 fighters but one will be arcane archer, the other a gunslinger. One monk, and a warlock.
I really like the idea of a wood elf with 18 wis, 17 dex, 16 con, 12 int, 12 str and 9 char. With this build, I would wield shield and rapier, using cd to maximize thunderwave, shatter, call lightning, and destructive wave. I could just go strength and hill dwarf, using a maul.
If I was grave I would be a hill dwarf, use heavy armor and a warhammer and shield. That cd looks wicked, so use on bosses to bring them down. I like the other features.
Arcana I'm not sure.
I just can't make my mind up, anyone else have any thoughts?

[ZorroGames]

Check out this thread for Clerics:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?374604-The-Devout-and-the-Dead-a-guide-to-Clerics&p=18189677#post18189677

[Specter]

If you're going for either Tempest or Grave, then I say Tempest. But I'll second Nature Cleric here as the best option.

[Naanomi]

Hilldwarf nature Cleric can tank without Strength or Dexterity; hits pretty hard with a shillelegh+booming Blade