What class fits the character concept?

[Inea]

Hey,
I’m trying to build a character… and for once, I started with the background story.
Yeah, great idea... now I could use some help...

- the chara was the "pet" from an evil mage, who tried to create the perfect fighter. He escaped and is now searching revenge, but is utterly loyal to the party members who saved his live
- he doesn't know a lot about the world, so he is probably very low on wisdom
- he is almost feral and will kill without a second thought
- small, nearly a kid - so rather dex than strength
- for Story reasons I would like to see him with two daggers but I guess they just don't do enough damage, so maybe swords? (no ranged weapons and no magic)
- he should be very fast and deadly, since he should be the "perfect fighter" (sneak attack would be nice, but we already have a rogue and well, what after the sneak attack?)
- so probably fighter or barbarian?
- race: probably human, but I could take something else if it helps...


I'm into flavoured charas, but they should be optimized enough to not be a burden to the group... and since the new chara doesn't have a lot to offer besides psychopathic tendences and fighting skills... he should better have good fighting skills.

Until now I played mostly sorcerer (and low level wizards and rangers). Our tank was always a paladin, so I never even saw a fighter/barbarian in action. I guess blood rage could fit the concept, but I'm not sure if it's really that good for the fighting stile of the character.

The new chara will start at lvl 5. No multiclassing allowed.

It would be really great to get a few tips / ideas how to bring this character to work properly.

[bluthunda]

I see you say no magic but if the evil mage was trying to make a perfect fighter I can't seem why he wouldn't embue some magic into the fighter so go fighter Eldritch knight grab Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade spells along with shield for extra AC when you need it.
Use the two weapon fighting style for extra damage on your off hand attacks and feel free to use whatever weapons you want from the sounds of it I would start with daggers as it sounds like the chara would very little to no money.
Use Variant Human and grab Dual Weilder feat so you can draw both your weapons on the same turn and get bonus AC for dual weilding.
Probably not the most optimized but does fit your characters background in my opinion plus with Eldritch Knight you could throw a dagger when your not in range and summon it back next round as a bonus action, saving having to switch to a ranged weapon.

[Lalliman]

Rogue is the best choice for a Dex-based dual wielder. Unless your DM house-ruled it, dual wielding starts to suck when you get Extra Attack, but the rogue doesn't have to worry about that.

But since your group already has one, what about Rogue 2 / Fighter X? Cunning Action gives you the "very fast" part, a bit of Sneak Attack damage for his ruthlessness, and the rest is the pure fighting skill of the fighter. Action Surge also gives you a sudden burst of speed, which seems appropriate. Wield two short swords and call them daggers. Don't bother with the dual wielder feat, unless your DM enforces the "can't draw two weapons at once" rule. Sounds good to me.

Barbarian would fit the "feral" part of his personality, but doesn't really support this concept. You can make a decent dual-wielding barbarian or a decent Dex barbarian, but combining them leads to the worst of both worlds, since dual-wielding will no longer give you the benefit of applying your Rage damage bonus multiple times. So skip that one.

Edit: In response to bluthunda: Note that Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade do not allow the use of your off-hand attack.

[mgshamster]

There are lots of ways to make a melee combatant in 5e, so it really depends on what that evil mage thought would make the perfect fighter.


Many attacks in one round
Lots of damage in a single strike
one hit one kill, enemy never sees you coming
self enhancement via spells
ability to quickly move around the battlefield
never be unarmed


It all depends on what that mage thought when he created X-23 your character.

Lots of attacks at once? Fighter's extra attack while dual wielding or Monk's flurry of blows.

Lots of damage in a single strike? Rogue sneak attack, paladin smite, booming blade cantrip with Eldritch Knight fighter, bladesinger or pact of the blade warlock (hexblade UA with UA warlock smite), crit Fisher build (can't control when you do the damage), battlemaster Fighter

One hit one kill, never sees you coming? Assassin rogue plus shadow monk plus warlock

Self enhancement via spells? Eldritch Knight fighter, paladin (any), bladesinger, warlock (blade)

Move around the battlefield? Rogue or monk (any Archetype); may even combine them

Never unarmed? EK fighter, blade warlock,

By the way, daggers are perfectly acceptable.

[gfishfunk]

I would go Warlock, either fiend pact / blade or the UA warblade pact. Or whatever it is called. The mage would have imbued magic.

[Sir cryosin]

I see a small tabaxi barbarian twf with short swords. Why tabaxi because you are a creature created by a mad wizard and you want the PC to be really fast (I'm AFB but tabaxi has that abilite to double there movement). I say barbarian because you said he's loyal, Savage, no magic, and want to be a fast so armor only slows you down (not really mechanically). For the primal path I'll say totem. I'm AFB so I can't say which ones to take.

[alchahest]

Hey,
I’m trying to build a character… and for once, I started with the background story.
Yeah, great idea... now I could use some help...

- the chara was the "pet" from an evil mage, who tried to create the perfect fighter. He escaped and is now searching revenge, but is utterly loyal to the party members who saved his live
- he doesn't know a lot about the world, so he is probably very low on wisdom
- he is almost feral and will kill without a second thought
- small, nearly a kid - so rather dex than strength
- for Story reasons I would like to see him with two daggers but I guess they just don't do enough damage, so maybe swords? (no ranged weapons and no magic)
- he should be very fast and deadly, since he should be the "perfect fighter" (sneak attack would be nice, but we already have a rogue and well, what after the sneak attack?)
- so probably fighter or barbarian?
- race: probably human, but I could take something else if it helps...


I'm into flavoured charas, but they should be optimized enough to not be a burden to the group... and since the new chara doesn't have a lot to offer besides psychopathic tendences and fighting skills... he should better have good fighting skills.

Until now I played mostly sorcerer (and low level wizards and rangers). Our tank was always a paladin, so I never even saw a fighter/barbarian in action. I guess blood rage could fit the concept, but I'm not sure if it's really that good for the fighting stile of the character.

The new chara will start at lvl 5. No multiclassing allowed.

It would be really great to get a few tips / ideas how to bring this character to work properly.

Two suggestions:
1: I would say that not knowing much about the world probably reflects more in a low INT than WIS, as WIS will be accounting for a lot of the things that a feral type might have (Perception and Survival are the big ones, but even animal handling as a form of feral empathy fits the bill. )
2: With the first item I would see if your DM would allow you to bolt the spelless ranger variant onto the UA ranger and go with the Hunter Conclave. I think it would fit nearly perfectly. variant human for dual wielding, and use a pair of short swords.

[smcmike]

Monk. You want to play a monk.

Refluff the mystical aspects of the class as side effects of your character's perverse training, and you've got a preternaturally fast, viscious, dex-based fighter.

High wisdom, low intelligence. He doesn't know anything about the world, but surviving his training meant honing his instincts to a razors ede.

[Kromp]

Is the other Rogue playing an assassin? If not, I would argue for a Rogue with the assassin path. If you like the idea of fighting with two daggers but including kicks and other cheap shots, a monk could work as well with the way of the open hand.

[Inea]

I guess a little bit of Magic wouldn't kill, but I would rather not go warlock or anything more "Magic" than Eldritch Knight.

If I can't combine green flame blade / booming blade with the off hand attack wouldn't the second weapon / off Hand attack be useless?

Aren't daggers a bit weak for lvl5?


@Lalliman: our DM doesn't want us to multiclass (and since we are all quite inexperienced as players it's probably not the worst thing to keep it simple)


@mgshamster: The list fits the questions... what would you think, if you were the evil mage? ;)


@Sir cryosin: Never heard of tabaxis before, but they sound fun. Are they an official race?


@smcmike: We had a monk in our first campaign... he was our weakest member and more often then not a bystander in the fight (he dealt not even half as much damage as any other PC we had and my wizard worked with illusions only...).
Maybe we just did something utterly wrong, but a monk doesn't sound like a good fighter to me...

[Inea]

Is the other Rogue playing an assassin? If not, I would argue for a Rogue with the assassin path. If you like the idea of fighting with two daggers but including kicks and other cheap shots, a monk could work as well with the way of the open hand.

No, the other rogue is a Mastermind.

[Zejety]

@Sir cryosin: Never heard of tabaxis before, but they sound fun. Are they an official race?
Tabaxi are officially included in the book Volo's Guide to Monsters. They are a race of cat-people. Their biggest gimmick is an option to move at twice their normal speed at no additional action cost; which recharges on a turn on which they did not move.


@smcmike: We had a monk in our first campaign... he was our weakest member and more often then not a bystander in the fight (he dealt not even half as much damage as any other PC we had and my wizard worked with illusions only...).
Maybe we just did something utterly wrong, but a monk doesn't sound like a good fighter to me...
Monks are pretty good in 5e (the 4-elements tradition is underwhelming though). They do not stand out as damage dealers but are exceptionally mobile and have very strong single-target crowd-control via Stunning Fist.

[Ugganaut]

Fighter, Battlemaster. Versatile, plenty of build guides to help you out for Dex based.
Monk, Open Hand or Kensai. I think Int would be low, because its knowledge your lacking, not wisdom, so high Dex/Wis, low Int/Cha. Could go Ghostwise Halfling for some extra groove, could have him not speak, just use telepathy.
Barbarian, Beserker. Totem doesn't really fit from your description. Could go Zealot if you're religious.

Feat: Weapon Specialization, like Fell-Handed for dual Hand Axes. And of course Mage Slayer.

Ghostwise Open Hand Monk with Mage Slayer feat would be my pick. Can move around well, lock down casters, and I love the idea of a little fella knocking the snot out of someone twice his size :)

[Quoxis]

First off: being new to the outside world doesn't have to equal low wisdom. Look at wis related skills: perception (incredibly important for warriors), medicine (which he most likely would remember from what was done to him), insight (animalistic instinct - also people with different psychiatric disorders have been shown to be good at reading people).

Second: the perfect fighter/killer can kill you with almost anything, can fight effectively with the least possible amount of armor/supplies, can stay alive longer than his opponents and can look intimidating enough to make them pee themselves pre-combat.
Did you look at the monk class? If it's pure-classing that's where i'd start (i will only use officially released content): uses non-finesse weapons with dex, can deal plenty of damage with a single dagger, has unarmored ac, can hit multiple times (3-4 attacks per round at level 5), can strike weak spots to incapacitate opponents (stunning strike), and will get flavorful "body perfection" techniques as he progresses. Especially fitting for the obviously martial character you have in mind are the open hand and long death monk, i'd advise to take the latter simply for the feature to defy death as long as you have ki points left, but also for the temp hp on killing something (how much more savage can you get?) and the terrifying effect to frighten opponents.

Thematical feats would be healer (applying knowledge you got from the years of experiments done to you), magic initiate (if your master was a wizard, maybe he implanted some of his magic in you for a would-be gish?), martial adept (to get a maneuver, maybe the one that can scare opponents away, maybe the one to trip them prone, maybe the disarming one...), though you'll probably want to maximize your Dex first (just in case you take variant human as your race they become attractive again).

EDIT: Monks are awesome and if your friend played one like that, he did it wrong (but as your current group has a mastermind in it, that might just be the case...)

[Quoxis]

Fighter, Battlemaster. Versatile, plenty of build guides to help you out for Dex based.
Monk, Open Hand or Kensai. I think Int would be low, because its knowledge your lacking, not wisdom, so high Dex/Wis, low Int/Cha. Could go Ghostwise Halfling for some extra groove, could have him not speak, just use telepathy.
Barbarian, Beserker. Totem doesn't really fit from your description. Could go Zealot if you're religious.

Feat: Weapon Specialization, like Fell-Handed for dual Hand Axes. And of course Mage Slayer.

Ghostwise Open Hand Monk with Mage Slayer feat would be my pick. Can move around well, lock down casters, and I love the idea of a little fella knocking the snot out of someone twice his size :)

MAGE SLAYER?! A wizard creating something that might kill them? That... sounds kind of awesome for a backstory now that i wrote it out... This might be stolen.

[Citan]

Hey,
I’m trying to build a character… and for once, I started with the background story.
Yeah, great idea... now I could use some help...

- the chara was the "pet" from an evil mage, who tried to create the perfect fighter. He escaped and is now searching revenge, but is utterly loyal to the party members who saved his live
- he doesn't know a lot about the world, so he is probably very low on wisdom
- he is almost feral and will kill without a second thought
- small, nearly a kid - so rather dex than strength
- for Story reasons I would like to see him with two daggers but I guess they just don't do enough damage, so maybe swords? (no ranged weapons and no magic)
- he should be very fast and deadly, since he should be the "perfect fighter" (sneak attack would be nice, but we already have a rogue and well, what after the sneak attack?)
- so probably fighter or barbarian?
- race: probably human, but I could take something else if it helps...


I'm into flavoured charas, but they should be optimized enough to not be a burden to the group... and since the new chara doesn't have a lot to offer besides psychopathic tendences and fighting skills... he should better have good fighting skills.

Until now I played mostly sorcerer (and low level wizards and rangers). Our tank was always a paladin, so I never even saw a fighter/barbarian in action. I guess blood rage could fit the concept, but I'm not sure if it's really that good for the fighting stile of the character.

The new chara will start at lvl 5. No multiclassing allowed.

It would be really great to get a few tips / ideas how to bring this character to work properly.
Considering a) no-multiclss b) already a rogue c) no magic/ranged d) DEX-based e) "feral" character...
To me the obvious choice would be a Barbarian (Frenzy for fluff, Totem for optimization especially the animals providing bonus speed).

Battlemaster feels too "intelligent" for your description, EK is a no-go, Champion could fit but lacks the "feral" aspect (although you could just roleplay it indeed).

Monk is a class I usually recommend, especially for some "solitary" character, but in your case, I think the related fluff meshes very badly with your concept...

Monk. You want to play a monk.

Refluff the mystical aspects of the class as side effects of your character's perverse training, and you've got a preternaturally fast, viscious, dex-based fighter.

High wisdom, low intelligence. He doesn't know anything about the world, but surviving his training meant honing his instincts to a razors ede.
Good one.
Ok then, Monk is another great contender: built-in speed, control which magic is pretty much undetectable to normal people, "self-sufficient" body... Everything checks. ;)

[Ugganaut]

MAGE SLAYER?! A wizard creating something that might kill them? That... sounds kind of awesome for a backstory now that i wrote it out... This might be stolen.

Haha, not what I meant, though I like it :) Was thinking the level 4 feat, after he'd been rescued. If you aim to hunt down your old master, and he's a wizard and you're a warrior....Mage Slayer. And its a good feat for any party.

[Easy_Lee]

Variant Human fighter with two daggers or shortswords fits the concept. Bear in mind that fighters are no more common than any other class. A fighter is an ascended soldier, a gifted combatant that rises above the rest. With that in mind, the perfect "fighter" would have to be a fighter.

If you want the character to be fast, take Mobile. Combining Mage Slayer and Sentinel would fit the concept. This feat combo means it's difficult for anything to escape.

Monks are better at killing mages than fighters. However, fighters are better at killing almost everything else. And unlike barbarians, fighters work just as well with dexterity as strength.

Daggers only lose you a few damage per round, and can be thrown in a pinch. They're also concealable with sleight of hand. Don't sell them short.

The Battlemaster archetype does the most damage, so for this concept it's your best bet.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Monk. You want to play a monk.

Refluff the mystical aspects of the class as side effects of your character's perverse training, and you've got a preternaturally fast, viscious, dex-based fighter.

High wisdom, low intelligence. He doesn't know anything about the world, but surviving his training meant honing his instincts to a razors ede.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with Monk, here. Small, scrawny, agile, check. Phenominally lethal with a dagger, check (they're Monk weapons; their damage will go up with level). Very fast, check. "Doesn't know a lot about the world..." Knowing about the world is really more of an Int thing. High Wis, low Int/Cha would be "wide-eyed and perceptive, but ignorant and bad at communicating with people," which sounds like exactly what you want. I played a street urchin Monk in a Curse of Strahdt game and had a lot of fun with it.

Mechanics-wise, I suggest Long Death-- Open Hand may seem more warrior-y on the surface, but the higher-level features are more of the serenity-monk type archetype. Long Death, on the other hand, is all about fear and death and being bloody tough to kill-- perfect for your idea here. Grab Mobility ASAP, too-- it's far too good on a Monk to pass up; trying to constantly use Step of the Wind to get out of danger will eat your ki in a hurry.

[Quoxis]

Haha, not what I meant, though I like it :) Was thinking the level 4 feat, after he'd been rescued. If you aim to hunt down your old master, and he's a wizard and you're a warrior....Mage Slayer. And its a good feat for any party.

I mean, the game starts at lvl 5, he could've been the wizard's pet up until lvl 4/5, having been trained by them and just freshly been rescued before the game starts. In any case it's cool flavor and mechanically a save bet.

[Zejety]

Now I want to play an evil wizard who has started adventuring (and assuming a new identity) to dodge the merciless pursuit of his escaped murder slave.

[Joe the Rat]

I really think Monk is going to work best mechanically for the concept - and Grod's suggestion of Long Death - paralleled with some of the Long Death fluff makes for a good fit.

Monks are hard-trained discipline. You may be fairly savage, but you were shaped and trained to use that savagery in specific ways. You have pressure points and major arteries and feral strikes literally beaten into you. You bear strange scars from where you were being shaped, or potentially hard-wired muscle memory via direct muscle control. Your mind is a little muddy from the direct control needed to move you from "feral child" to "feral child who reflexively knows how to dislocate the shoulder of an ogre using its own power". Extra attacks, flurries, striking as if magical, dodging fireballs, all-save proficiency... this is what a wizard needs in a killing machine. Also, the rising weapon damage means daggers are always good - and can be thrown.

For this character, the "study of the process of death, in prolonging and easing" from Long Death is less rigorous study and more repeated experience as a test subject. You've been to the brink so many times you are inured to it. The smell of the threshold clings to you. Ravens note your every move.

On a monoclass monk, two daggers is mostly a fluff detail - Extra attack may involve both hands, but you will always be better off using unarmed strike for your bonus action. If you can add a little something, 1-2 levels of Fighter OR Rogue can bump this. Rogue: Bonus action unarmed strike, or use the dagger if you have an opportunity for Sneak Attack. 2nd level adds Cunning action (saves Ki). Fighter: Two-weapon fighting makes your off-hand dagger identical to your unarmed strike, and gains you Second Wind. 2nd level adds Action Surge for that frenzy of stabby damage.


Going stranger places on your concept, you could also look at Ranger (Hunter). Favored Enemy Human +whatever other race your master hates (or used as training targets), whatever natural environment you like, Hunter's Mark, and your pick of death-dealing tricks - Break the Horde for multiple targets, or Colossus slayer to show your added viciousness when blood is in the water - and things rarely stay unwounded around you. The only thing you'd lack is naked AC, which a single level of monk would get you. The dagger scaling issue can be mitigated with "long knives" aka short swords.

[BurgerBeast]

Going stranger places on your concept, you could also look at Ranger (Hunter). Favored Enemy Human +whatever other race your master hates (or used as training targets), whatever natural environment you like, Hunter's Mark, and your pick of death-dealing tricks - Break the Horde for multiple targets, or Colossus slayer to show your added viciousness when blood is in the water - and things rarely stay unwounded around you. The only thing you'd lack is naked AC, which a single level of monk would get you. The dagger scaling issue can be mitigated with "long knives" aka short swords.

I was just starting to think about how sad it is that in an attempt to build to a feral, dex-based, two-weapon, fast and deadly killing machine... ranger almost doesn't even enter the conversation... it's too bad, really.

I second (third? Fourth?) the long death Monk. I do think hunter, battlemaster, assassin, totem warrior could also work.

[smcmike]

Hunter ranger is a nice choice if the wizard/trainer had specific terrain and/or enemies in mind, and was training for survival as well as battle. Dropping the kid in the middle of nowhere with only a pocketknife and whatnot.