Can zombies/skellies animated through Animate Dead use weapons & armor?

[Joe Eskimo]

I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time this question has been raised, so can they? I'm planning on a character, a 6th level necromancer at minimum and he has like 4 zombie bodyguards. I want them all to go in and out of town without much trouble so his zombies have to seem alive. So I'll have them embalmed to avoid the obvious stench and halt/slow decomposition, cover them up with long garments and make them wear masks. Also I'd like them to have weapons and armor, and if possible have them actually use it when combat does arise, though it'd be funny when my bodyguard drops his weapon and shield and tries to eat his attacker's brains. :smallbiggrin:

[Ninja_Prawn]

The skeleton stat block has weapons and armour built in, so there's no problem there. Ogre zombies are listed with weapons, which makes sense, but basic zombies in armour seems a bit wrong. Mainly because it would have a huge effect on their CR. I'd probably say something like "they can't wear armour because the friction/heat accelerates their decomposition."

As an aside, maybe you'd like to use this (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2017/05/flesh-sculptor.html)?

[JackPhoenix]

They can certainly use them.

If they are proficient, well, that is a much harder question to answer. Skeletons, given the standard stat block, seems proficient in at least short swords and short bows. It's up to your GM to decide if any other proficiencies apply. A zombie non-proficient in armor does have disadvantage on attacks, Dex and Str ability checks and saves, but they still made for a pretty durable (un)living shield. Without weapon proficiency, they have smaller attack bonus, which may or may not be a good trade for the weapon's abilities.

I, personally, rule that the skeletons retain the proficiencies they had in life, because it fits with their fluff of having some memories of their pre-undead existence, while zombies are mindless, but can be "programmed" with the proficiencies of their creator.

[Lombra]

I believe that it should depend on the corpse that you are raising. If you raise a dead veteran the zombie veteran will likely be wearing the armor and wielding the weapon (provided that the corpse was fully equipped when raised)

[Sigreid]

They can certainly use them.

If they are proficient, well, that is a much harder question to answer. Skeletons, given the standard stat block, seems proficient in at least short swords and short bows. It's up to your GM to decide if any other proficiencies apply. A zombie non-proficient in armor does have disadvantage on attacks, Dex and Str ability checks and saves, but they still made for a pretty durable (un)living shield. Without weapon proficiency, they have smaller attack bonus, which may or may not be a good trade for the weapon's abilities.

I, personally, rule that the skeletons retain the proficiencies they had in life, because it fits with their fluff of having some memories of their pre-undead existence, while zombies are mindless, but can be "programmed" with the proficiencies of their creator.

You could dress your zombies in plate armor and order them to use the help action to make your party's melee experts have advantage. Or, have them attack in pairs, one aiding the other that attacks to cancel disadvantage. Though that's not really any better than taking two swings at disadvantage I suppose.

[Dalebert]

By default, skeletons are wearing "armor scraps". Seems reasonable they can use armor but they only have a 10 str so that's going to limit what they can wear without a problem anyway. I typically put chain shirts on mine.

[Naanomi]

I assume they are proficient in anything they were in life. With 14 DEX Skeletons do well with half-plate

[Joe Eskimo]

Seems they can then. Thanks all!

[Dalebert]

More importantly, they can use some magic items. I like them for administering healing potions to fallen allies, for instance.

[Joe Eskimo]

Seems they have a lot of non combat potential and I'm starting to like skeletons a bit more. Do skeletons have to be upright all the time or can they crumble into a pile of bones for easy storage and just stand when you need them to?

[Kane0]

I'd say simple weapons should do it. Not so sure about armor, perhaps light (no shields).

[Ninja_Prawn]

Seems they have a lot of non combat potential and I'm starting to like skeletons a bit more. Do skeletons have to be upright all the time or can they crumble into a pile of bones for easy storage and just stand when you need them to?

I'd say no to voluntary crumbling like that. After all, they don't even crumble when the spell ends. However, I might allow you to destroy a skeleton via damage then re-aninate the same bones, as long as the attack type wouldn't have damaged them structurally.

It's hard to imagine a situation where that'd be worthwhile though. A better solution would be something like Exhume from here (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2017/02/necromancy-spells.html?m=1).

[Joe Eskimo]

I'd say no to voluntary crumbling like that. After all, they don't even crumble when the spell ends. However, I might allow you to destroy a skeleton via damage then re-aninate the same bones, as long as the attack type wouldn't have damaged them structurally.

It's hard to imagine a situation where that'd be worthwhile though. A better solution would be something like Exhume from here (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2017/02/necromancy-spells.html?m=1).

I actually intend them to be fully animated while they're not standing. I'm not sure if "crumbled" was the right word on my part. Maybe folded or collapsed might have been a better word. Sort of like skeleton yoga. Skeleton contortionists in a locked chest. 😃

[Ninja_Prawn]

I actually intend them to be fully animated while they're not standing. I'm not sure if "crumbled" was the right word on my part. Maybe folded or collapsed might have been a better word. Sort of like skeleton yoga. Skeleton contortionists in a locked chest. 😃

Yeah, I got that. I still wouldn't allow it: I feel that the animating magic enforces a natural humanoid shape, as if it were a system of ligaments and tendons.

Clearly other DMs will see it differently, so by all means ask yours.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

I actually intend them to be fully animated while they're not standing. I'm not sure if "crumbled" was the right word on my part. Maybe folded or collapsed might have been a better word. Sort of like skeleton yoga. Skeleton contortionists in a locked chest. 😃

That's cool, but probably not. On the other hand, Skeletons don't get cramps or uncomfortable so you should be able to have them fold themselves into shapes that are possible but extremely difficult to hold for noncontortionists, which means that they can fit in surprisingly small areas that would be painful for normal humans and just stay there indefinitely.

[Dappershire]

Seems they can then. Thanks all!


That's cool, but probably not. On the other hand, Skeletons don't get cramps or uncomfortable so you should be able to have them fold themselves into shapes that are possible but extremely difficult to hold for noncontortionists, which means that they can fit in surprisingly small areas that would be painful for normal humans and just stay there indefinitely.

While I certainly have no issue commanding undead to bend into awkward though physically possible shapes, i'd say zombies would take damage if you tried. Death tightens the flesh, tearing may occur.
Also, you can't have it both ways. No armouring your skeletons, then ordering them to jack-in-the-box up.

[Joe Eskimo]

Yep I plan to have them unarmored during transport. Seems I need a bigger shipping container for my skellies. Anyways thanks to everyone for all your thoughts on my questions. Much appreciated.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I want them all to go in and out of town without much trouble so his zombies have to seem alive. So I'll have them embalmed to avoid the obvious stench and halt/slow decomposition, cover them up with long garments and make them wear masks.

Wouldn't this basically be the upgrade process to mummies?

[JackPhoenix]

Wouldn't this basically be the upgrade process to mummies?

Physically, maybe, depending on how far you take the process. Magically, no, you'd need 9th level Create Undead for that

[Dalebert]

When would anyone make a mummy with a 9th level spell when they could just create a simulacrum of anything from anywhere with a Wish?

[JackPhoenix]

When would anyone make a mummy with a 9th level spell when they could just create a simulacrum of anything from anywhere with a Wish?

Simulacrum only works on humanoids, and it has its own limits (no healing, no learning, not replenishing spells), and you can have unlimited mummies around (not under your direct control, but they are intelligent and could be reasoned with), while you can only have one Simulacrum.

Also, mummies are less likely to result in DMG/other sufficiently heavy and hard objects being thrown your way.

[Dalebert]

Simulacrum only works on humanoids

Or beasts, but yeah. I was just thinking I would always get more out of a humanoid with class levels than a mummy, but otherwise valid points. Besides, it occurs to me that the simulacrum sticks around til it dies so you could make one and then make a mummy the next day. The mummy requires continual spellcasting to keep under control though.

EDIT: Just reread it and you get two mummies so there's that.

[Joe the Rat]

Yep I plan to have them unarmored during transport. Seems I need a bigger shipping container for my skellies. Anyways thanks to everyone for all your thoughts on my questions. Much appreciated.

It might be simpler to tight-pack "dead" skeletons and animate them when you reach your destination. It would be awful to have to deal with an angry mass of uncontrolled undead clawing out of the crate if you happen to miss a control casting...