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Dusk Raven
2017-07-04, 07:16 PM
So, most of us are familiar with the Deck of Many Things, and there are other magical decks such as a Deck of Illusions that I've seen in 5e... but I've been wanting to create my own deck of magical cards, based on a Tarot deck. Now, the Deck of Many Things has Tarot counterparts for each of its cards, but those don't make a full Tarot deck, and the DoMT cards don't necessarily match the real meanings of the cards. Balance radically shifts a character's alignment, which has no meaningful relation to the Justice card, and summoning a Dread Wraith - the effect of the Skull card - doesn't really connect to the Tarot's Death card, which is about new beginnings or changes in life if upright, or resistance to change if upside-down.

So, I thought perhaps I - and anyone willing to help - would go through the list of traditional Tarot cards, examine their symbolism, and come up with 3.5/Pathfinder effects to match - both for the "upright" and "reversed" positions. For example, take the aforementioned Death card, with its symbolism of change and stagnation depending on position. For the "upright" effect, the next time the user of the card dies, a Reincarnation spell is cast upon them, without the typical negative levels or potential spell slot loss. However for the "reversed" effect, the next time the user would level up, their XP is instead reset to the minimum for their present level.

The basic idea of how the deck works is that a character can draw a card, and either keep it to use whenever they see fit, or draw a new one, causing the one they had to vanish. They are made aware of the effects of each card as they draw it. Each card can be used once, and has an "upright" and "reversed" effect - and which one takes effect is random. Usually one is good, situationally or otherwise, and the other is bad, also situationally or otherwise.

Other possible ideas to include might be the ability to give Minor Arcana cards that are drawn to someone else who does not have a card - if that someone takes possession of the card, the original holder can draw a new one, although they can't accept the old one back if they do so. Likewise, the new owner of the card must choose between using the card he has or drawing a new one. But Major Arcana cards must be used or abandoned by the one who drew them.

So, anyone think the idea has enough merit to provide feedback or help come up with card effects for a Pathfinder or D&D 3.5 version? They don't all need to be Deck of Many Things level - the Major Arcana are obviously powerful, but the Minor Arcana can have lesser effects - and as a result are also not as bad for the user if the negative effect comes up. But there are a lot of cards, and I'm open to suggestions for effects, particularly by anyone familiar (or willing to speculate) with Tarot symbolism! You can find a number of admittedly subjective interpretations, but have a link that seems worthy (if wordy) if you want an example site: http://www.ata-tarot.com/resource/cards/

Dusk Raven
2017-07-04, 07:17 PM
Placeholder post for listing all the effects - all those cards need room to be described!

rferries
2017-07-05, 01:25 AM
I'd love to help out! However, to avoid one person (i.e. me) hogging all the cards did you want to set a limit on how many suggestions an individual can provide, or make it so people have to take turns to work through the list? Furthermore, is there a limit on how powerful/weak you want the effects to be (e.g. equivalent to 5th-level spells, for example). Finally, a potential problem is that the tarot are as nebulous as horoscopes in a lot of cases - many of them deal with the concept of "change" for example; this might result in a lot of overlapping ideas.

My sample idea for The Fool:
Upright: You are immune to the next mind-affecting attack that you fail a save against.(protected from manipulation by your own simple-mindedness)
Reverse: At the end of your next encounter you are feebleminded. (you learn the wrong lesson from an experience).

I'll stop there before I start churning them out haha :D

Dusk Raven
2017-07-05, 04:27 PM
I'd love to help out! However, to avoid one person (i.e. me) hogging all the cards did you want to set a limit on how many suggestions an individual can provide, or make it so people have to take turns to work through the list? Furthermore, is there a limit on how powerful/weak you want the effects to be (e.g. equivalent to 5th-level spells, for example). Finally, a potential problem is that the tarot are as nebulous as horoscopes in a lot of cases - many of them deal with the concept of "change" for example; this might result in a lot of overlapping ideas.

If you really want to make effects for all 78 cards, I certainly won't stop you! I'm not actually opposed to more than one person coming up with effects - I figured myself and the others could work out which was best. That being said, I'm not sure how many people will take an interest in this so any amount help is appreciated. That being said, I do have to stress the importance of the symbolism of the card itself - I've already mentioned Death, which has a rather different meaning than the pop culture version, but there are a lot of cards where the meaning isn't obvious from the name and picture. The Fool, for instance -while Feeblemind is fairly apt for the reverse effect, The Fool more properly represents the beginning of a journey, filled with potential. Now, it's called The Fool for a reason, but in the upright position it's more about a sort of childish innocence and naivety - though of course, reversed, that ignorance leads to disaster. I'll have to see if I can find some good sources for Tarot symbolism...

Speaking of popular symbolism, I myself will probably take on the various Tarot cards which are counterparts to the cards of the Deck of Many Things, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/artifacts/minor-artifacts/deck-of-many-things/) at least to begin with.

The issue of power is a good question. Ideally I want most of the abilities to be useful for a wide range of levels. Minor Arcana, I think, should roughly be equivalent to mid-level wizard or cleric spells (scaling when possible), or similar effects from the other classes of that level. Major Arcana are the only ones that should venture into the Deck of Many Things level of powerful effects - and preferably nothing as devastating as The Void or Talons. Each card (with rare exceptions) should have positive and negative effects roughly equal, or equal enough to make using one an acceptable risk to take.

rferries
2017-07-05, 06:55 PM
Yes I've just done a bit more reading on the site you linked - I was being too literal, clearly :D Unfortunately I'm not quite sure how to translate a lot of the meanings to game mechanics... here's another stab at it (I know you'll convert the Three of Cups yourself, this is more to see if I'm still being too literal):

Three of Cups
Upright: The next meal you consume with your party members acts as a heroes' feast.
Reverse: The next time one of your party members fails a save against a negative morale effect (e.g. crushing despair, fear, etc.), all members of your party suffer that effect with no save permitted, even if they would normally be immune.