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View Full Version : Asmodeus in 5e: Overview and Discussion



Unoriginal
2017-07-05, 07:52 AM
Since his first appearance, each edition of D&D portrays Asmodeus in a somewhat different way, despite a lot of the different versions' traits and history matching up with each others

So, what do we know about the 5e version?

He is an archdevil, a lesser god of tyranny (who favors the Trickery domain), and a patron for Warlocks, which more or less places him in the middle ground of his various incarnations (more than just a powerful archdevil, but not an entity that can casually kick gods and whole planes around).

His rule on the Nine Hells is absolute and, despite the many devils plotting against him, basically uncontested. Even Mephistopheles, who is more or less the most second most powerful devil, is well-aware he has no chance of beating Asmodeus unless the Archduke of Nessus somehow messes up spectacularly. Furthermore, Asmodeus has basically absolute power over every single devil. He can destroy them or promote/demote them to any ranks he wishes by a snap of his fingers, and he is the *only* one who can promote anyone to the rank of archdevil, making him the gatekeeper for any real power in Baator. And even the smallest contract made by the most mediocre of devils is still enforced by Asmodeus's will.

Interestingly enough, it does not seem like he always had that kind of power. He apparently stole the first layer of Hell, Avernus, from Tiamat the dragon goddess, a feat for which she despises him, leaving her to sweep the streets she used to own, prisoner of her former realm. However, a contract exists between the two gods, and Tiamat still has dominion over some parts of Avernus.

Despite, or maybe because, his level of control over his plane, Asmodeus doesn't actually appears very interested in administrating it on a day-to-day basis, as he designates powerful devils and the other Dukes for this function, while he himself seems to focus on extraplanar affairs, increasing his power, corrupting all that he can and scheming to conquer the entire cosmos. This include pretending to be a different deity to dupe worshippers, making pacts, ransoming whole kingdoms worth in exchange of souls he owns, and more exotic schemes such as infusing a whole bloodline with his essence to create the Tieflings or commissioning a group of hags to make him an army worthy of Baator.

While the Archduke of Nessus seems to value loyalty, he is somewhat inconsistent with how he reward it or punish betrayal. He encased Levistus in ice, yet allowed him to rule his layer, even removing the seemingly loyal Geryon from Stygia's throne to let Levistus regain the position. Baalzebub was cursed and his form twisted into the one of a slug for his repeated attempts at usurpation, yet Asmodeus occasionally favors his old adversary in a very puzzling way, and maybe even respect him. It is possible that this curious dance of unearned favors and undeserved punishments is all part of a plan by the greatest mastermind of Hell, due to information the public is not privy too, or simply that he enjoys torturing people by making them guess the why and the how of his actions, making finding his real plan that more difficult, as well as making his subordinates suffer for the Hell of it.

His default appearance is one of an handsome bearded man with small horns and red eyes wearing robes and holding his ruby rod. Personality-wise, as one could guess, he is noted to love schemes and to be cruel, as well as the most cunning and the most well-mannered of all the devils, and he usually only appears to be the pure evil he is if he wishes so.

Yet, for all his power and competence, the ruler of Baator is not without weak points. He fears being killed in the Nine Hells, just like any other rank-and-file devil. His plans are also not fool-proof, as the Yugoloth escaping his control are the proof of. But more interestingly, the 5e's version of Asmodeus exhibits a trait I don't remember seeing in the other incarnations of this character: wrath.

While the Asmodeus of other editions could certainly be angry, he always seemed to be portrayed as in perfect control of himself. In 3.X and 4e, even the murder of his wife (although in very different contexts) was not enough to make him forget to plan his next move carefully and scheme a revenge (even if for different reasons depending of the edition). In 5e, it is told that Asmodeus destroyed the Hag Countess who ruled Malbolge in a fit of anger, and that he sometime flies into rages so intense he forgets himself and reveal the ultimate evil his usual sophistication hides.


So, what do you think of this version?

mgshamster
2017-07-05, 09:55 AM
I like the version, but with one twist:

As a deity (power?) of trickery, he's set up all these varied stories of himself so you never know which one is actually true. Even the stories of his fits of anger may be false; he could have planned it all out to make it seem like he's prone to anger.

You never can tell.

Naanomi
2017-07-05, 10:12 AM
Do note however that as a planar in charge of a plane he is much more influential in the cosmic sense than any old Diety... there are an infinite number of Evil Gods of trickery and evil, there is only one Asmodeus

Millstone85
2017-07-07, 10:56 AM
He is an archdevil, a lesser god of tyranny (who favors the Trickery domain), and a patron for Warlocks, which more or less places him in the middle ground of his various incarnations (more than just a powerful archdevil, but not an entity that can casually kick gods and whole planes around).I have to say that I love SCAG's take on his divinity. In Faerūn, Asmodeus is the god of indulgence, mainly in the sense of bargaining your sins away. Want to make the long purgatorial wait in the Fugue Plane a bit more comfortable? Want to start high on the infernal ladder when you end up in the Nine? Pray to Old Hoof and Horn. You have his ear.


Do note however that as a planar in charge of a plane he is much more influential in the cosmic sense than any old Diety... there are an infinite number of Evil Gods of trickery and evil, there is only one AsmodeusI feel like I already asked that but... Asmodeus and Primus are the only ones in that category, aren't they?

Unoriginal
2017-07-07, 11:31 AM
I have to say that I love SCAG's take on his divinity. In Faerūn, Asmodeus is the god of indulgence, mainly in the sense of bargaining your sins away. Want to make the long purgatorial wait in the Fugue Plane a bit more comfortable? Want to start high on the infernal ladder when you end up in the Nine? Pray to Old Hoof and Horn. You have his ear.

Somehow I don't think that adding Simony to your sins is a good idea.




I feel like I already asked that but... Asmodeus and Primus are the only ones in that category, aren't they?

What category?

Millstone85
2017-07-07, 11:43 AM
Somehow I don't think that adding Simony to your sins is a good idea.As someone of Catholic background, I thought "Ha! They went there".


What category?Characters who can be considered to rule most of one of the 17 Outer Planes.

JackPhoenix
2017-07-07, 11:49 AM
What category?

Undisputed ruler of an entire outer plane. Outside Hells, even gods rule at most one layer, most often not even that. Asmodeus has entire Baator under his thumb. Primus is similar with Mechanus, but even then his overal influence is much lesser.

Makes you wonder if some of the rumors about Asmodeus (notably available in Afroakuma's Planar Question threads) being something else than "mere" archdevil god and much more powerful than he lets on are true...

Millstone85
2017-07-07, 12:22 PM
Makes you wonder if some of the rumors about Asmodeus (notably available in Afroakuma's Planar Question threads) being something else than "mere" archdevil god and much more powerful than he lets on are true...That or the plane itself demanded a tyrant. I think achieving that level of authority on Mount Celestia would require an unattainable degree of virtue, while the Abyss wouldn't be satisfied with less than six competing powers at any time.

Naanomi
2017-07-07, 12:30 PM
Depends on what you mean by 'ruler'... Primus and Asmodeus to be sure (though Primus is more 'head administrator' than leader). Zaphkiel is head of the Hebdomad and thus the 'ruler' of Celestia.

Talsid doesn't do much in the way of 'ruling' Elysium, and while Queen Morwel rules the Eladrin, it doesn't really extend to the rest of Arboria. There are Yugoloth who have meaningful claims as political leaders in Gehenna, Hades, and Carceri; but not cosmological claims to those planes (especially not Hades, where Baernolth are clearly still cosmologically key)

Demogorgon is the 'Prince of Demons' which is a cosmically important title, but no one can 'rule' the Abyss. Likewise there are 4-5 Slaad Lords wth cosmic significance that are not physical or political rulers of Limbo

Millstone85
2017-07-07, 01:05 PM
Primus and Asmodeus to be sure (though Primus is more 'head administrator' than leader).I like that. Mechanus is first and foremost "the system".


There are Yugoloth who have meaningful claims as political leaders in Gehenna, Hades, and Carceri; but not cosmological claims to those planes (especially not Hades, where Baernolth are clearly still cosmologically key)I forgot about the MM's description of the General of Gehenna, secretive/mythical leader of the Yugoloth. Is that new? It sounds like it has potential for a really big cheese.


Zaphkiel is head of the Hebdomad and thus the 'ruler' of Celestia.Ah okay, not so unattainable virtue. The FR wiki describes the Hebdomad as advising the gods of Celestia, which is also fitting.


Talsid doesn't do much in the way of 'ruling' Elysium, and while Queen Morwel rules the Eladrin, it doesn't really extend to the rest of Arboria.Yeah, souls there must be very live-and-let-live. They don't have the motivation.


Demogorgon is the 'Prince of Demons' which is a cosmically important title, but no one can 'rule' the Abyss. Likewise there are 4-5 Slaad Lords wth cosmic significance that are not physical or political rulers of LimboOkay. I don't know what that cosmic importance entails.

Naanomi
2017-07-07, 01:59 PM
I forgot about the MM's description of the General of Gehenna, secretive/mythical leader of the Yugoloth. Is that new? It sounds like it has potential for a really big cheese.He has been around a long time. How much of a big deal he is (compared to how much is just Yugoloth propaganda) is a bit of a mystery. Same with the other Yugoloth leadership

Ah okay, not so unattainable virtue. The FR wiki describes the Hebdomad as advising the gods of Celestia, which is also fitting.You were not far off. He is very reclusive, mysterious, and he is the only being to have ever returned from the seventh layer of Celestia at ask

Yeah, souls there must be very live-and-let-live. They don't have the motivation.
Talsid and his companions are pretty active, but they are more like an adventuring party protecting Elysium than anything in a real leadership role (except as being the leaders of the respective Guardinals they represent).

Okay. I don't know what that cosmic importance entails.A being with cosmic importance means that the plane itself recognizes their leadership to some degree... Mechanus confirms to Primus' will; Celestia inherently works to meet the Hebdomad's expectation; even the mercurial nature of the Abyss works to support Demogorgon (which is why so many other demon lords covet the position). The same isn't true for most other planes and their leaders, who are 'only' the physical rulers of the planes and their inhabitants... note that Asmodeus hasn't really been granted the full 'cosmic' leadership of Baator, it continues to be one of his big goals to be 'formally' recognized by the plane as the leader of Baator the way the plane worked towards the interest of the ancient Baatorians that the Baatezu replaced