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View Full Version : 3rd Ed Spell Theft vs Permanant Buffs



ChaosSpiral
2017-07-05, 01:17 PM
Hello I have another rules question that I just am not sure about. So there is a spell in Complete Scoundrel called Spell Theft. It reads as the following


Abjuration
Level: Bard 4, Hexblade 4, Sorcerer 5, Wizard 5,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Winding your magical grip around the dweomers that augment your opponent, you rip them away and feel their energy rise around you.
You attempt to steal an opponent's beneficial spell effects for yourself.
Upon casting this spell, you instantly discern all spells currently affecting the target (including their effects).
For each spell so discerned, you can make a dispel check (1d20 + your caster level, maximum +15) against a DC of 11 + the spell's caster level.
If the check succeeds, you gain the effect of the spell for the remainder of its duration, as if it had been cast on you instead of the original target, and the opponent loses that effect.
Only spells capable of being dispelled can be affected by spell theft.
In addition, if you are not a legal target of the spell to be stolen, your dispel check automatically fails.
For example, if you cast spell theft on a dire bear affected by bull's strength and animal growth, you could steal only the effect of the first spell unless you were also of the animal type.


My DM likes to throw a bunch of creatures at us with Spells that have been Permananized onto the creatures now and I was wondering, if a bit worried, that if I used this spell on the creatures would I end up stealing the permanency as well? Or would I end up having the spell for the regular duration? Would I have to make two dispel checks for each spell, One for Permanency and one for the actual spell? What are your thoughts?

Fouredged Sword
2017-07-05, 01:49 PM
The only issue I see is that there are two spells you need to steal. First you must steal the spell with it's original duration, then steal the permanency spell. They do not combine into a single spell just because one spell modifies the other.

In the very least you can steal the buff in the short term while denying it to your enemies.

Nifft
2017-07-05, 02:47 PM
The only issue I see is that there are two spells you need to steal. First you must steal the spell with it's original duration, then steal the permanency spell. They do not combine into a single spell just because one spell modifies the other.

In the very least you can steal the buff in the short term while denying it to your enemies.

Hmm, not sure I like the implications of that interpretation.

If I'm a PC with a permanent effect on me, and I'm fighting an NPC of equal level -- which is currently higher than I was when I cast permanency. The NPC casts dispel magic, as they are wont to do, and under your interpretation I have to beat TWO caster level checks:
- One for the effect itself; and
- One for the permanency spell.
... or I lose the spell that I paid all those XP to have up all the time.

That seems to punish the naive player who tries to use the rules as intended.

Fouredged Sword
2017-07-05, 03:01 PM
That is the cost of a cheap slotless item though. It really is, as far as I can tell, intended to be used by bosses to give them a boost that cannot be dispelled by lower level casters.

That said, there is an easy work around. Just hire a high CL spellcaster to cast the permanency.