Newb looking for tips on dealing with CN player

[latebloomer]

Backstory: I'm pretty new to RPG. I've wanted to play for years and had a few short experiences. I'm just now in my first real game, well-run, with cool people. Except the DM, we're all either brand new (4), fairly new (1) or haven't played in 10-20 years (2). We can only play monthly, but I think everyone is having fun.

As a player, I'm looking for advice on how to work with the one CN character in our party. The player is not being an a-hole and is pretty much playing his alignment, to the best of my understanding (although I've read threads here that seem to indicate that CN is hard to pin down). The rest of the party is either chaotic good, neutral good or true neutral (mostly playing to good, though).

Since we're all new or haven't played in a while, we're learning how how to work together. We don't actually have a leader* (right now, it's more like a anarchy where we occasionally vote), and during our last session, spent a good chunk of time trying to figure out ways to get the CN character to keep to a commitment he made earlier. Later, he said that if we'd only said please... Even if we had a leader, assuming the CN player was consistent, wouldn't an ultimatum from a leader make a CN even more determined?

Basically, tips for my CG character, that his character looks up to or grudgingly respects, would be much appreciated. Does she try reverse psychology? Just say please? Beg? Offer to pay? (We had gotten him to agree to a trio of tasks by promising him time alone in each area and first dibs on whatever he found, and we kept to it. But at the third task, he changed his mind, sat down and crossed his arms. We couldn't do it without him (2 arcane spell-casters required). There was a huge waste of time and I don't even remember how we finally convinced him to help.) The character has mentioned that there are some things my character might do that would make us friendlier and I'll try that out as soon as the opportunity presents itself but until it does, or in case it doesn't work... I was thinking I should start the next session by having her apologize for the earlier misunderstanding, but thought I'd ask around for advice.

I should add that I'm married to the DM but haven't discussed this too much with him because I don't want it to look like he's feeding me "lines," if that makes sense. I already know that the player wants to find a friendlier solution, get to like the other members of his party, and just be impulsive/chaotic in other ways, but we have to get there first. (Because we're all newish, the first few sessions have been D&D 101, ramping everyone up to gameplay, and it's gone really well - the newer players are getting comfortable and the returning veterans are remembering how to play.)

*That's another issue to deal with. Technically, my character might be the most qualified (fighter/wizard with noble background). but I'm avoiding taking on that role because of the DM's Girlfriend (wife) thing. Also my RL tendency to get bogged down in details or be control-freaky (just a little, but still) is holding me back. If no one steps up next session, maybe she can call for a discussion.

[Emay Ecks]

I think it's as simple as asking, in-character, what the CN character wants. Players don't normally have their characters act anti-party or do obnoxious things unless their needs aren't being met. Maybe this person feels like they aren't being included in group decisions, maybe they feel like everyone in the group is looking down on them as an obnoxious character and they want a little respect.

I think you apologizing the other character (either in-character, or out of character would probably be fine) and then making an effort to communicate more with the other player would go a long way.

If the person truly starts acting in an annoying way, just talk to them out of character about it. Say "Hey, I think _____ is a really fun character, but sometimes they do things that just frustrate me and take away from my enjoyment of the game. Is there anything my character or I can do to ensure that we both have fun?" Because that's what everyone is there for, to have fun.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I'd say in character figure out what the CN character's motivations are.

My Bard is CN. Being an elf I figure she started CG, after a series of unfortunate events in her back story she got a little less good and more to the point of accomplishing what she needed.

Maybe your CN is the same way.

[coolAlias]

CN is not an excuse to be a ****.

D&D is (generally) a cooperative game, and if it's not fun for the rest of you to constantly have to beg and plead with this other player's character to cooperate, then both you and your characters are well within your rights to refuse to adventure any further with such an uncooperative person.

EDIT: More to the point, out of character, ask this player if they can think of any ways in-character to make their character more cooperative. CN doesn't mean you won't cooperate with anybody, nor does it necessarily mean you are impulsive and/or crazy. Even more-so, alignment in 5e is nebulous at best and should not have much bearing at all on how you play your character other than as a rough guideline toward how your character feels about Good/Evil and Law (which could be tyranny but doesn't have to be) / Chaos (which could by anarchy, but doesn't have to be).

For example, CG - an alignment oft-used to describe elven society - would hardly be described as impulsive* and uncooperative. CN is the same, but they feel and/or act less strongly about Good and Evil.

* Depending on the depiction of elves, of course - some are notoriously fickle.

[imanidiot]

Alignment is a really bad way to describe a character's personality. The player needs to cooperate with the party, that's the point of the game. Being disruptive and blaming it on alignment or "it's what my character would do" is weak. If you made a character that has to be disruptive to be in character then you made a bad character.

OOC The player made a bad character. Either play it with a more cooperative personality, change it's alignment, or play a different character.

IC The character is disruptive, greedy, and untrustworthy. Not someone that you can trust in an adventuring party. The character is fired and ejected from the party. The player needs to make a new character.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

This isn't really an alignment issue. Chaotic Neutral characters have a reputation for being the "LOL so random!" alignment for players who are just kind of looking to sandbox around and see what reactions they can get out of the DM and other players but are just as capable of being played as actual, reasonable, fleshed-out characters as any other alignment. I don't think the person you described was playing chaotic neutral, or if he was, that wasn't the problem; he's chosen to be a pain, to make the whole party dance around to please him and to put his entertainment ahead of everyone else's, that's the problem.

I have a friend who likes to say that "everyone has an equal stake in the fun". What he means is that if the way that one person has fun makes it difficult for someone else (or everyone else, in some cases) to also have fun, that's a problem. Your group needs to sit down and have a conversation about what needs to happen for this person to have fun and engage with the game and if the only way that can happen is for him to be in control and everyone else to dance to his tune, he's a player who you don't need in your game.

[Tetrasodium]

Tvtropes.org is a great resource for all kinds of stuff about things like alignment/characters/personalities/plots/etc on nonmechanical levels

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChaoticNeutral
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CharacterAlignment
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnconventionalAlignment

[RSP]

To start, I would look at alignments and say "I'm X alignment so I have to act like _____."

I'd recommend coming up with a character, and their motivations/behaviors, and then generally figuring out where they lay on the Good--Evil spectrum and the Order--Chaos spectrum.

In terms of dealing with any character, you can start by asking out of character what the Player wants out of the character during the campaign and what they think of the character.

Likewise, trying in character to get to know the character better would also work but can be difficult if the Player is new to roleplaying and feels they need to play CN as "random guy."

[GPS]

Honestly, shouldn't have to beg or bribe him to help. If he can't make a character who has a reason to adventure, he needs to rework that character. Tell him how much of a massive waste his stonewalling is.

[latebloomer]

First of all, thanks to everyone who commented! It's given me a lot to think about and I'm formulating a strategy now. Just to be clear, the player himself isn't being antagonistic - he started down this path and wants to figure out ways to get everyone trusting and working with one another so he can relax and have a little more fun. He wants to make it a natural progression instead of just SUDDENLY being super-nice. I'm cool with that, but am eager to move it along already.


I think it's as simple as asking, in-character, what the CN character wants. Players don't normally have their characters act anti-party or do obnoxious things unless their needs aren't being met. Maybe this person feels like they aren't being included in group decisions, maybe they feel like everyone in the group is looking down on them as an obnoxious character and they want a little respect.

The character has usually just been outvoted, but we've intentionally left him in the dark about information at least once. One thing that's going to start happening is that my character is going to stop policing him. That's more like me, IRL, and not her. (I'm still learning, too.) The next time he starts asking obviously pointed questions about an artifact, she's going to walk away (unless he's putting us at risk). I'm the control freak, not her.

I'll probably be reaching out closer to game day, OOC, just so he knows my character has something planned. And see if he has any suggestions for ways we can mend fences. (I need to find someone in the next town to modify part of his "costume" - it doesn't fit - and he said that would help with at least our relationship. Maybe one of the other characters can do it instead.) We have a couple of weeks, and he's super busy. Just because I'm obsessed...


I think you apologizing the other character (either in-character, or out of character would probably be fine) and then making an effort to communicate more with the other player would go a long way.


This is definitely going to happen, as sincerely as my character can manage it, since it's going to be closely followed by a combination of a request as suggested above (what do you want) and a come-to-Odin convo. (A little stereotypical for a dwarf, but Beryl is up with some of the Norse pantheon.) Not screaming, but matter-of-fact, like she is (or, how I should be playing her). We can use him on the team, and would even like to call him friend, but he has to be ON the team. We can't do our jobs and get our payday or loot if we're spending all of this energy worrying about him intentionally doing something that will get us all injured or whatever. Treat other people like s**t and on your own time, but stop s***ing where you live. Something like that. But nice. LOL. Beryl is used to having servants and stuff. She is pretty egalitarian, but if I was playing her true, she wouldn't be putting up with this.

Thanks, again!

[Sigreid]

Sounds like a misunderstanding of CN to me. CN isn't 'Chaotic Crazy', at least not necessarily. It pretty much just means you live by your own rules, everyone else be damned. When I play CN, and it's my alignment of choice I have my characters keep their own word and commitments. They just don't really care about the "demands" of others, and are unwilling to to let anyone else commit on their behalf.

In short, they aren't unreliable, but you ask, you don't command. In general they will help when asked because good friends are hard to come by.