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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Cleric Domain - Urban [PEACH]



quinron
2017-07-06, 05:38 AM
A new domain for my new setting. Spells and abilities are centered around social interaction with a secondary concept of industrialization. Would make for a decent face cleric with a lot of social versatility.

URBAN DOMAIN
Urban gods - such as Athena, Boldrei, and Erathis - can embody all aspects of humanoid civilization. Some are proponents of progress and improvement, instructing their followers to innovate and develop new technologies and philosophies. Others value the community, security, and prosperity that come with greater populations. However, with greater populations come scarcity and squalor; some gods teach charity toward the downtrodden, while others teach the disadvantaged to take what they can from those who have more. Followers of urban gods come from all walks of life, and most become involved in their local government or hierarchy in order to better the city, whether for themselves or others. Urban deities often come into conflict with nature deities, as urban expansion inevitably leads to the destruction of the wilderness. Recently, gods of trade, craft, and artifice such as Shinare, Lugh, and Hephaestus are being revered as urban gods.

URBAN DOMAIN SPELLS


Cleric Level
Spells


1st
comprehend languages, grease


3rd
knock, pyrotechnics


5th
stinking cloud, tongues


7th
blight, fabricate


9th
cloudkill, passwall



BONUS PROFICIENCY
At 1st level, you gain proficiency with firearms.

This archetype is intended to work with my homebrews for new guns, which can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517154-New-Guns-Old-West) if you're curious. In settings that don't include firearms, I' recommend changing this to martial weapons - I don't think that would damage the class's cohesion.

COSMOPOLITAN
Also at 1st level, you gain the friends cantrip. You learn one additional language, and you gain proficiency in one skill of your choice: Deception, Intimidation, Performance, or Persuasion.

CHANNEL DIVINITY: CENSUS
Starting at 2nd level, you can use your divine power to determine an area's population. As an action, you gain an estimate of the number of humanoids within a 1-mile radius, as listed on the table below.


Census Result
Number of Humanoids


Unpopulated
0


Sparsely populated
1-20


Lightly populated
21-50


Moderately populated
51-100


Heavily populated
101-200


Densely populated
201-500


Overpopulated
501 or more


As part of the same action, you can also gain an estimate of the number of humanoids within 1000 feet, 500 feet, or 100 feet. This feature doesn't reveal the creatures' locations or exact number.

CHANNEL DIVINITY: SPEAK AUTHORITATIVELY
At 6th level, you can use your Channel Divinity to impose your will on others. As an action, choose one humanoid that you can see within 30 feet of you. If the creature can't understand your speech, the attempt fails, but you don't lose a use of Channel Divinity.
If the creature does understand your speech, it must make a Wisdom saving throw. If the creature succeeds on the saving throw, you can't use this feature on it again until you finish a long rest.
If the creature fails its save, it is charmed by you for 1 hour. While charmed, the creature has disadvantage on all Wisdom (Insight) checks made against you.
When the effect ends, the creature doesn't realize it was charmed by you and continues to act as it was acting before the effect ended.

DIVINE STRIKE
At 8th level, you gain the ability to infuse your weapon with the forces of urban development. Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can cause the attack to deal an extra 1d8 fire, poison, or thunder damage (your choice) to the target. When you reach 14th level, the extra damage increases to 2d8.

IMPROVED AUTHORITY
At 17th level, creatures charmed by Speak Authoritatively automatically fail all Wisdom (Insight) checks against you, and you automatically succeed on all Charisma checks against them.

Vogie
2017-07-06, 09:22 AM
I like the concept, but the abilities you've given seem more like a domain of humanoids/mankind - it would be equally useful outside a urban environment, possibly even moreso when in any area with largely humanoid population. Wouldn't an "urban" cleric have more abilities to encourage being in an urban environment? Sure, you've got knock, passwall, and fabricate, but I was expecting more of that baked into the class abilities. Maybe a way channel divinity into mending/constructing buildings? Animating objects? Connections to the underclass? Maybe not going straight into Jack Hawksmoor, but something more connected to an urban environment.

I would put an urban domain in the same type of class as an urban druid, who would view and connect with a city as though it was a large organism or ecosystem.

zeek0
2017-07-06, 10:10 AM
Hello! I like city/urban/civilization domains - let's take a look.

First, I'm not fond of the name. 'Urban' is an adjective; a domain should be a noun.

Census is a flavorful ability, but just doesn't sit right with me. It doesn't give the information I really want, like 'how many cultists remain in this crypt?' or 'are there assassins in our immediate vicincity?'

Speak Authoritatively seems to be Charm Person with the safeties taken off. Rather dangerous (too dangerous).

Improved Authority is kinda silly. "Give me the keys to the city", "The emperor is corrupt, don't you agree?", and "Go **** yourself" all prompt a contested Charisma check.

Other features seem cool.

I don't agree with Vogie when he says that features should be focused on urban use. On the contrary, I think that features should be thematically urban, but universally useful. However, I do agree that the features should be potent in an urban setting - animate objects is a good choice.

There's many different facets you could go with on the Urban track. I can imagine domains of Industrialization, Pollution, Order, Law, Community, etc. Perhaps by choosing one of these, it would focus the domain?

I'm eager to see how you reply!

quinron
2017-07-06, 03:30 PM
First, I'm not fond of the name. 'Urban' is an adjective; a domain should be a noun.

I agree - I wasn't very happy with the name. I was going to name it "City," but then I remembered the UA Modern Magic article with their "City Domain." I may just say screw it and call it City anyway. Or maybe Civilization.


Census is a flavorful ability, but just doesn't sit right with me. It doesn't give the information I really want, like 'how many cultists remain in this crypt?' or 'are there assassins in our immediate vicincity?'

Good point - my idea was more that you could use this to gauge how many potential enemies there are in a given area - "how many orcs might be in this camp," for instance. I've got an idea on how to change it.


Speak Authoritatively seems to be Charm Person with the safeties taken off. Rather dangerous (too dangerous).

That's the idea. As a 6th-level ability, I was thinking that something along the lines of a watered-down dominate person. I agree, though - I'm thinking I'll cut the duration down to 1 minute.


Improved Authority is kinda silly. "Give me the keys to the city", "The emperor is corrupt, don't you agree?", and "Go **** yourself" all prompt a contested Charisma check.

While it would be easy to plunge this into silly territory, I'm relying on good sense, limited targets, and the fact that it only works on humanoids as limiters. Charisma skills have limits - that's why there have to be spells like suggestion and dominate person. And while the target may not realize that they've had the whammy laid on them, I'd say it's safe to assume that in most circumstances, powerful people have aides, advisors, and guards to ensure that if they're enchanted, the culprit will be found out and punished.

A few more limiters could help, though - I'm hoping the reduced time limit can be one. I also think I'll go with my original plan of only letting Speak Authoritatively work on one target at a time.


I don't agree with Vogie when he says that features should be focused on urban use. On the contrary, I think that features should be thematically urban, but universally useful. However, I do agree that the features should be potent in an urban setting - animate objects is a good choice.

There's many different facets you could go with on the Urban track. I can imagine domains of Industrialization, Pollution, Order, Law, Community, etc. Perhaps by choosing one of these, it would focus the domain?

This gets at what I was hoping to accomplish with this: a cleric that works best in the city, but can bring the powers of civilization with them wherever they go. I was on the fence about animate objects (for what reason I can't rightly say), but with both of you favoring it I'm happy to put it in now.

On the concept of narrower domains: I tried making an Industry domain a while back, but I could never make it work in a way that I found satisfactory. I'm pretty happy with this guy - I think it fills a niche that wasn't really available to clerics before, as well as feeling flavorful without being too restrictive.

Of course, I'm open to more critiques and welcome them gladly.

quinron
2017-07-06, 03:38 PM
PROPOSED CHANGES

Domain Spells: Replace cloudkill with animate objects.

Census: Radius is variable to a distance of your choosing up to 1 mile instead of the concentric circles of 1000/500/100. By focusing for 1 minute, you learn the exact locations and subtypes of all humanoids within 100 feet of you.

Speak Authoritatively: Duration reduced from 1 hour to 1 minute. After effect ends, target doesn't know it's been charmed, but it returns to the action it was performing before it was charmed. If Speak Authoritatively is used again while still active, effect on first target immediately ends. Probably smart to also put in some wording that target retains all memory of actions performed while it was charmed, just to get out ahead of the exploits.

zeek0
2017-07-07, 01:13 AM
Quality changes.

I think that Census is much more useful now. But I want to check - do you know the locations of creatures for one minute, or only after that minute? The first is lifesense, the second is a burst of knowledge (I'm not sure on the balance of either).

Speak Authoritatively: The lack of safeties still concerns me. By the charmed condition, you can use this on the target, then slowly carve them up for one minute - they have no recourse.

For Improved Authority, I'm still amused. It's a good rule in D&D that a) everything is a chance for failure, and b) my DM can determine the DC for anything I try to do. Automatic success is begging for abuse. You can tell the lone archmage to immolate himself, or the warrior king to kill his bodyguards. Even Dominate Person allows for saving throws when damaged, and advantage on the initial throw if you are fighting. My concern is that it uses social interaction as a brute-force measure to bypass or just nuke encounters in the game.

Some time ago I made a city type for Circle of the Land. Your list seems fine, but I'll leave mine here for comparison's sake.
3rd - heat metal, knock
5th - tongues, glyph of warding
7th - freedom of movement, arcane eye
9th - animate objects, wall of stone

quinron
2017-07-07, 02:27 AM
On looking at the Census rewrite, I realized a) I was ambiguous on the wording and b) I didn't put a limit on it. I'd prefer that a 1-minute "casting" time gives a burst of knowledge - lifesense would feel a little too much like Primeval Awareness for me.

For Speak Authoritatively, would it be enough of a safety if harm to the target triggers another saving throw? In that case it's not quite as strong as dominate person, since that spell allows complete control of the victim. It's powerful diplomancy, but it still requires rolls to make things happen, and it won't make anyone do anything they couldn't be persuaded to do.

I think Improved Authority needs an overhaul. I'm considering making it akin to mass suggestion: you can extend the effect of Speak Authoritatively to all creatures within 30 feet. A beefed-up version of a 6th-level spell as a 17th-level class feature seems acceptable to me, but I'd like some thoughts from others.

zeek0
2017-07-07, 07:55 AM
One possible problem is that Speak Authoritatively and Improved Authority aren't really that different from effects that you can get through spells. Any cleric with charm person, suggestion, or dominate person can do what this channel divinity feature does.

I really like Census, because it's entirely new (I also agree with your proposed changes to it). It is remarkably thematic to the domain you have in mind. Speak Authoritatively feels like it could belong to many different symbols, including enchantment, law, command, or intimidation.

Just my thoughts in the moment.

quinron
2017-07-07, 03:26 PM
That's fair. That's also probably the reason I'm having so much trouble tweaking it. I think I committed to the idea and have been trying to make it work rather than being willing to reevaluate the concept. I'm going to give it some thought and see if I can come up with something a little more interesting.

quinron
2017-07-07, 05:44 PM
I think I may have pinned it down. This ability is based on the "Saving Face" ability of the hobgoblin race in Volo's Guide to Monsters. I always thought that was overpowered as a racial ability, but as a Channel Divinity I think it could work.

CHANNEL DIVINITY: CAMARADERIE. Beginning at 6th level, you can use your Channel Divinity to harness the spirit of community.
As an action, you present your holy symbol toward one creature that you can see within 30 feet. The next time that creature makes an attack, ability check, or saving throw, it gains a bonus equal to the number of friendly creatures it can see within 30 feet of it, with a maximum bonus equal to your Wisdom modifier.

IMPROVED CAMARADERIE
Starting at 17th level, when you use Camaraderie, you can apply the effect to every creature of your choice that you can see within 30 feet.

My first thought is, if this CD ability feels balanced, should it only be applicable to the next roll, or should it be bankable?

zeek0
2017-07-08, 12:14 AM
Since you only grant your wisdom modifier once, and only under constrained conditions, it does need more umph.

You could do this by making it bankable by the target. Or you could also make the feature a reaction. Or you could increase the number of uses. Or you could constrain the circumstances, such as 'within 15 feet of this glyph I draw in the sand'.

If you keep it as is, I would let them have the bonus three times in a row. This would give them a burst of bonuses, but it wouldn't be in their control how it's used.

I like the concept. The domain feels much more about community now, whereas before it was about command.

quinron
2017-07-08, 12:25 AM
My first instinct was to give it on all rolls until the end of your next turn. Would that make it a little better?