Pathfinder: Improved Familiar

[Scottlang]

If you have a Ratling as a familiar, is there anywhere in the rules to say that you can't give it levels in a class, ie, high level Lich Wizard level 14,with a Ratling (which I'm going to make as undead... Maybe a Juju Zombie or something like that) as a familiar, for the ability to cast scrolls, could I give it, let's say, 4 levels in mage, or adept, or an alchemist, or expert??

It was an idea a friend gave me, and I was thinking it would be an interesting twist, where the Lich and the Familiar go back a long long way, many centuries have passed

[noob]

You are allowed to give levels to a familiar.(at least no rules forbids it)
In fact there is no rules saying that the familiar of a player can not gain levels so if a player wanted he could mind-seed his familiar(alter self on the familiar first) and then have a familiar that can cast spells like him.
Furthermore I believe it is written that cohorts and the like do not take XP when adventuring with you but they might gain xp while adventuring alone(while you sit in a chair at the other side of the multiverse actively non adventuring).

[TheFamilarRaven]

Familiars are a Class Feature that don't advance as a player does (i.e they don't gain experience etc). Instead their HP many of their abilities are based off of their master. So no, you there is no RAW way to give your familiar class levels. What you are describing is essentially the cohort granted by the leadership feat.



is there anywhere in the rules to say that you can't give it levels in a class


As an aside, and with all due respect, this is not the way to go about checking if something is rules legal. Instead try to find texts that say you can do something, not the other way around. Otherwise you can have crazy situations like "Well, the rules say a longsword deals 1d8 points of damage, but I don't see any rules saying it doesn't instantly kill everything... Therefore longswords are instant kills."

[ngilop]

What TheFamilarRaven says.

But have you even paid attention to your actual familiar's abilitiy?


The Ratling can already use scrolls, it does not need t have levels in a class to use them, at the very least actually read what your class features and extrapulations thereof are capable of and actually do before you start asking questions trying to get answer for rule bends/breaks in your favor.

[Scottlang]

[QUOTE=Scottlang;22167623]ngilop, what I was thinking of, was to try get the familiar to be able to use wands and other magic items, is what I was trying to go for. I know it can use scroll... I was just finding out is that the limited. So I had paid attention to what it could do, and what feats I need to get the feat.

And TheFamiliarRaven, the reason I asked was I have not read any rules so far, says otherwise, but I have not read ALL of the books out there for pathfinder, as there are so many, hence I asked. To make sure if I had tried it was that trying to break the game or not. As awesome as an idea it is, I don't want to do something that is completely ludicrous...

[AOKost]

The Improved Familiar feat allows one to take many familiars that have high mental stats already... it says nothing to the effect that the familiar chosen couldn't have class levels... though if I were DMing I'd rule that you'd need the Leadership ability if you wanted both... taking your familiar as your cohort.

I'm primarily looking at Psudodragons taking levels in Artificer, Sorcerer or Warlock personally but you could do any number of things. Personally I like the idea of having a tiny dragon in the party, and psudodragons make a great fit at any level.

[TheFamilarRaven]

The Improved Familiar feat allows one to take many familiars that have high mental stats already... it says nothing to the effect that the familiar chosen couldn't have class levels...

I do have to contend with that point. The familiar gained via the Improved Familiar feat specifies that it uses the rules for regular familiars, which go on to state that,



Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar. An animal companion cannot also function as a familiar.


The Improved Familiar feat is the exception to the rule that a familiar must be an animal. It is not, however, an exception to the rule that it must be an unmodified version of the creature. A thus a pseudodragon, to use your example, cannot have any class levels what-so-ever prior to becoming a familiar, as that would be a modified version of a pseudodragon. Nor can they gain HD after becoming a familiar, prohibiting them from gaining class levels, as was already discussed

also, it goes on to state that an animal companion cannot also serve as a familiar, so while RAW is unclear as to whether or not your cohort can be a familiar, I think the RAI is that they cannot, as that would be a nightmare to figure out. (Like, is your cohort's HP equal to half your HP, or based on their HD as normal?). But that's beside the point.

[Psyren]

Familiars and Improved Familiars can't gain class levels because they don't gain HD.


It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type.


When choosing a familiar, the creatures listed here are also available to you. You may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step away on each alignment axis (lawful through chaotic, good through evil).

Improved familiars otherwise use the rules for regular familiars, with two exceptions: if the creature’s type is something other than animal, its type does not change; and improved familiars do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate).

Since they don't gain levels, they never have the opportunity to choose a class (which happens as step 1 of gaining a level.)

[TheFamilarRaven]

Also to the OP, if you want your familiar to use wands an such, just have your Wizard invest in UMD. Familiars use their master's skill ranks or their own (whichever is better). So your familiar would have ranks in UMD equal to its master's ranks. Thus your ratling could reliably use wands (14 ranks +1 CHA = 15 UMD bonus vs DC 20)