Monster making question

[Cakeking]

what kind of CR adjustment would you make if the creature or npc can cast or use dominate? I am creating spellcaster creatures, but dominate person is like what they mainly do. They wont have a ton of damage output, maybe none at all...dominate and maybe utility spells.

Would i just use the Save DC and its average per round dmg output? i know dominate is easily broken, so i dont think it would be super high, but at the same time its dominate

[Cakeking]

or maybe body swapping, and concentration is made when either body take damage...

[Unoriginal]

what kind of CR adjustment would you make if the creature or npc can cast or use dominate? I am creating spellcaster creatures, but dominate person is like what they mainly do. They wont have a ton of damage output, maybe none at all...dominate and maybe utility spells.

Would i just use the Save DC and its average per round dmg output? i know dominate is easily broken, so i dont think it would be super high, but at the same time its dominate

The DMG doesn't consider that Charm effects affect the CR of the monster.

On the other hand, the DC for the save against this power will affect the monster's CR.

[Leith]

This is the sort of thing the CR system is not good at. You can't easily quantify the benefits of dominate because it doesn't specifically affect attack or defense stats. Basically it takes a PC out of the fight with a single roll and then the PC uses their abilities to help the monster. If you can find similar monster powers and boil it all down to HP, AC, attack bonus, save DC, and damage per round you'll have a CR.

[PhoenixPhyre]

what kind of CR adjustment would you make if the creature or npc can cast or use dominate? I am creating spellcaster creatures, but dominate person is like what they mainly do. They wont have a ton of damage output, maybe none at all...dominate and maybe utility spells.

Would i just use the Save DC and its average per round dmg output? i know dominate is easily broken, so i dont think it would be super high, but at the same time its dominate

One consideration is fun. High DC (relative to save bonuses) effects that take away characters from players often are not that fun--5e shies away from save or lose effects. Dominate is even worse, since now the PC is helping the enemy. It's like the DM playing with himself for a while. Some players find it quite distasteful.

If you go this route, make sure that the save is one that the party is good at and that the DC is lower than the cr would suggest. Or build in ways that the party can break the effect without needing a save.

[BurgerBeast]

Hre's what I do: it's not perfect, but neither is the CR system. It works for me.

Whenever there is a spell that I plan to use with a monster, but it's not a damaging spell, I consider the most damaging spell of the same spell level. I calculate the CR of the creature as if it had that spell instead and used it to maximum effect.

Benefits: It's simple, it's clean, and after a while it's easy. It encourages the DM to find ways to put the spell to maximum use (since you're competing with the max damage spell).

Unintended benefit: it helps the DM to develop a slightly more grounded sense of relative spell strengths, because you have something to compare it to: was that spell as effective as a fireball? If not, adjust accordingly.

Drawbacks: Sometimes it's obviously inappropriate. Some spells just can't pack that much punch. In these cases I try to compare them to more mid- or low- range damaging spells.

[Cakeking]

mmm that sounds like a good idea