Holy **** I am tired of White Plume Mountain

[Hackulator]

I'm playing in a Pathfinder game and we just got to a dungeon we have to go through. We get started and.....I immediately recognize white plume mountain. This is like, the 4th or 5th time I've had a DM use this dungeon in a game, and I've used it once myself many years ago. This time I am not even trying to pretend I don't know everything about the dungeon. I answered the sphinx's riddle before she finished saying it. I know every trap and trick in the place but just because of the size I'm going to be stuck in there forever.

[Inevitability]

Politely talk to your fellow gamers and DM about your feelings regarding this, and hope a solution satisfactory to all can be found?

Also, don't ruin others' fun.

[Nifft]

I'm playing in a Pathfinder game and we just got to a dungeon we have to go through. We get started and.....I immediately recognize white plume mountain. This is like, the 4th or 5th time I've had a DM use this dungeon in a game, and I've used it once myself many years ago. This time I am not even trying to pretend I don't know everything about the dungeon. I answered the sphinx's riddle before she finished saying it. I know every trap and trick in the place but just because of the size I'm going to be stuck in there forever.

It's clear that you are actually the reincarnation of Keraptis.

You may indeed be stuck there forever.


Actually that may be a meta-game solution, for next time: your PC is always named "Keraptis", and your backstory is being the baby removed from White Plume Mountain. That should clue in all future DMs.

[Buufreak]

It's clear that you are actually the reincarnation of Keraptis.

You may indeed be stuck there forever.


Actually that may be a meta-game solution, for next time: your PC is always named "Keraptis", and your backstory is being the baby removed from White Plume Mountain. That should clue in all future DMs.

Or, if you have luck like I do, they would take that as a hint that you want to play WPM, and the DM-to-be hasn't read anything into it and is completely oblivious.

[Nifft]

Or, if you have luck like I do, they would take that as a hint that you want to play WPM, and the DM-to-be hasn't read anything into it and is completely oblivious.

You've had DMs who try to run a module before reading it?

Celestial avocado salad, that's awful.

[Gildedragon]

Note: this is why refluffing published adventures is important.
Change the riddles, descriptions, energy types; instead of a tomb builthills hillside, have a mine that has come across some ruins, or a chasm or cave that leads to some ancient mazes...

For example with ToH:
The locals speak with horror about some caves located up in the mountainside: local legend attributes the howling noises that come down from the peaks to the damned souls trapped in the eldritch caverns. Recently a few youths went up the mountain on a dare, it's been three days and they have not come back down.
As you get up to the peak you come across several caves, like gaping mouths, dotting the black stone hillside

Instead of frescoes there's petroglyphs... Chambers are natural galleries... Yada yada and it is hard to notice it is that module

[ATHATH]

Just tell the DM that you've played the module several times before and ask him if he could run a different one.

[Baby Gary]

Celestial avocado salad, that's awful.
can I sig this?

[Nifft]

can I sig this?

My holy guacamole is a gift to the world.

Of course you can.

[Lorddenorstrus]

Is it really that common for DMs to not bother making their own content and just run a module? I've never really heard of this sort of problem before now as all DMs I know including myself actually write their own content..

[Psyren]

Politely talk to your fellow gamers and DM about your feelings regarding this, and hope a solution satisfactory to all can be found?

Also, don't ruin others' fun.

Yes.


You've had DMs who try to run a module before reading it?

Celestial avocado salad, that's awful.

For once we agree on something.


Note: this is why refluffing published adventures is important.
Change the riddles, descriptions, energy types; instead of a tomb builthills hillside, have a mine that has come across some ruins, or a chasm or cave that leads to some ancient mazes...

For example with ToH:
The locals speak with horror about some caves located up in the mountainside: local legend attributes the howling noises that come down from the peaks to the damned souls trapped in the eldritch caverns. Recently a few youths went up the mountain on a dare, it's been three days and they have not come back down.
As you get up to the peak you come across several caves, like gaping mouths, dotting the black stone hillside

Instead of frescoes there's petroglyphs... Chambers are natural galleries... Yada yada and it is hard to notice it is that module

Seriously, this. Filing off the serial numbers is really not hard.


Is it really that common for DMs to not bother making their own content and just run a module? I've never really heard of this sort of problem before now as all DMs I know including myself actually write their own content..

Using a module isn't the issue - not every DM has time after a full day of work, kids etc. to sit down and pen Homer's Oddyssey. But if you do use a module and just run everything in it verbatim with experienced players, you should expect that somebody may have gone through that module before. Changing details to keep them on their toes is easy to do and a lot less work than making something up from scratch.

[Anxe]

Is it really that common for DMs to not bother making their own content and just run a module? I've never really heard of this sort of problem before now as all DMs I know including myself actually write their own content..

I did it when I was first learning to DM to make it easier on myself. My dad did it for me and my friends when we were learning to play as he had other obligations and couldn't commit to designing his own adventure.

For Hackulator: Were I in your situation I might just excuse myself from the next few sessions. I'd tell the others to have fun and that I'd be happy to join back in once they're done.

[Fizban]

I'm more surprised at the number of people who seem to run published modules without telling the group. If you're running a published adventure it should be obvious you need to tell the players so they can tell you if they've already read this decade old story, tell them what it's about so you know if they'll actually be interested and play the module rather than wandering off, and so on.

[SangoProduction]

Hey dude. Don't go and ruin it for the people who haven't played it. Seriously. If you don't like the campaign / adventure, say something out of character, and if they don't bend to your whims, remove yourself from the situation.

[Dezea]

This is pretty much why, when running a WoTc or Paizo-made campaign, I always ask my player if they knew about it. Doing again a dungeon you already done can be a tedious experience, doing it for the fifth time seems both awful as a player, and pointless as a DM :<

[Florian]

I can feel your pain.

Yes, the "classics" have a certain appeal, but after a while, you´ve seen and done it all and most gms should know this and ask their players if they want to do it.

[Quertus]

Is it really that common for DMs to not bother making their own content and just run a module?

Wrong mindset. It is happily common for DMs to want their players to not only experience the wonder that is their own custom content, but also to give them a shared experience with the larger gaming community.

That lot of GMs **** this up, and ruin the module and the shared experience by changing things is an all too common tragedy.

[Goaty14]

Celestial avocado salad, that's awful.

I want to put it into my sig, but how?
I have never figured out how the sig works in my profile yet.

[Baby Gary]

I want to put it into my sig, but how?
I have never figured out how the sig works in my profile yet.

go to settings and then under 'my settings' go to edit sig. From there you can put what ever you want in you sig.

[grarrrg]

Eh, White Plume Mountain is still loads better than Candy Mountain.
Last time we ran that one they took my freakin kidney.

[daremetoidareyo]

Name your character the exact same name as one of the big bads of white plume mountain. That will make for some confusing hijinx.

"Did you say your name was Lavos?"
"Yeah, Lavos, destroyer of the time stream, summoned by Magus! You've heard of me?"
"Dude, you're literally the end of my quest, but I thought you'de be more...impressive."
"Lolthat, Chrono. Watch out, I'm going to kill your frog familiar"

Roll initiative.

[Hiro Protagonest]

You've had DMs who try to run a module before reading it?

Celestial avocado salad, that's awful.

The phrasing meant "hasn't read anything into [what you named your character]."

Which is just a fancier way of saying they wouldn't notice the hint.

[weckar]

Of course people run modules. Why did you think they existed - map fodder?

[Florian]

Of course people run modules. Why did you think they existed - map fodder?

Nothing against modules, use them myself. Problem with the "classics" is that you´re at this hobby long enough, chances are good that you´ve played a good chunk of them at least once, or parts of it ripped off and used in another context.
So a sensible gm should probe the players a bit and find out if prior experience is there, they´re not averse to re-play the same material or whether it´s actually wanted at all.

[weckar]

I was mostly responding to Lorddenorstrus's comment that people run modules at all. Probably should have quoted.

[Eldan]

Is it really that common for DMs to not bother making their own content and just run a module? I've never really heard of this sort of problem before now as all DMs I know including myself actually write their own content..

I can only speak for myself but yes. Oh yes. I work a full time job, plus I commute an hour either way by train. I'm usually too tired on weekdays to prepare much. If we play once or twice a month, I'd be sacrificing all my weekends. Plus I'm terrible at coming up with workable adventure outlines. Basic ideas, maybe, but they never connect into a full working story. Luckily, I have a list of the synopses of all old Dungeon Magazine adventures I found online somewhere, so I search it for a few keywords that fit my campaign and then rewrite what I get there. E.g. "Okay, my players need to find a Fey Queen to ask her about the World Tree and they are out on the ocean. Control+F "island", Control+F "mysterious", Control+F "shipwreck", Control+F "moon"... ah, there we go".

[Florian]

I work a full time job, plus I commute an hour either way by train.

Welcome to the club. Family, 40+ hours work a week, 2 hours commuting by train per day, an iPad to prep some APs during that time and no nerve to create anything on my own.

[Eldan]

Eh, I still create. I write my own worlds. But I do that for fun and find it relaxing, coming up with religions or organizations or weird climates and monsters. But writing adventures is hard and tiring.

[Crake]

I circumvent the issue of writing adventures by not using the adventure model at all. Plop the players into the world, give them some motivation to achieve some goal (or better yet, have them come in with their own motivations), let them loose, and go with the flow. Know enough fairy tales, mythology and pop culture and you can generally piece together interesting stories and hooks on the fly that your players hopefully wont recognize until it's all over. I have consistently been running entire campaigns doing that, the only thing I ever grab from modules is the maps, and even then, it's literally just the map, which I then typically populate on the fly however is fitting for whatever I'm running.

[weckar]

I'd love to do that Crake, but my party tends to grind to a screeching halt without a very clear A to B plot and goal markers along the way.

[Sian]

Is it really that common for DMs to not bother making their own content and just run a module? I've never really heard of this sort of problem before now as all DMs I know including myself actually write their own content..

Not everyone have the creative ability to make their own content (or time for that matter), but due to their superior system knowledge they tend to be drafted into being DM.

That's certainly a position that I've gotten into a couple of times

[Florian]

How to phrase it? I´m gm´ing for some decades now and am good at working with and reading people. So improvising a compelling story, roping both, players and characters, in isn´t a problem and starting with a plot of "Apparent suicide down at the docks, Buddhists are cultist, wolf?" is enough for me when using the right system. I try to use each system to its strengths and circumvents their weaknesses, for d20, that means elaborate set-piece battles with tactical depth. And that, I rarely have time to prepare on the level I deem acceptable.

[Elder_Basilisk]

I'd love to do that Crake, but my party tends to grind to a screeching halt without a very clear A to B plot and goal markers along the way.

A lot of parties/players do. Message boarders often talk as though player directed/sandbox/whatever is the one true way to play but a lot of players just don't get it and some Dams aren't up to the challenge either. You can have a lot of fun with clear A to B and goal markers if you do it right though.

Also, it's interesting to note that old school dungeon crawling like white plume mountain (from what I've read of it-i haven't actually played or DMed it) can be an interesting middle ground between a full Bethesda style sandbox (which often suffer from grind and shallow/repetitive miniquest gameplay) . The dungeon is supposed to be dynamic and respond to the players (and often will have procedural rules in place to model some of that like wandering monsters and room restocking). But at the same time it's understood that the player characters are there to do the dungeon and sections/levels can serve as goalposts and quest/progress markers.

[Hackulator]

A lot of parties/players do. Message boarders often talk as though player directed/sandbox/whatever is the one true way to play but a lot of players just don't get it and some Dams aren't up to the challenge either. You can have a lot of fun with clear A to B and goal markers if you do it right though.

Also, it's interesting to note that old school dungeon crawling like white plume mountain (from what I've read of it-i haven't actually played or DMed it) can be an interesting middle ground between a full Bethesda style sandbox (which often suffer from grind and shallow/repetitive miniquest gameplay) . The dungeon is supposed to be dynamic and respond to the players (and often will have procedural rules in place to model some of that like wandering monsters and room restocking). But at the same time it's understood that the player characters are there to do the dungeon and sections/levels can serve as goalposts and quest/progress markers.

Part of the problem is DMs try to do like, a controlled sandbox. If you're gonna go sandbox, you have to let your players do almost anything, and you have to let the crazy **** they do have a chance of success. Some DMs will try to go sandbox but then they don't like the way the game goes and then they try to take control which becomes an issue in the middle of a game.