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View Full Version : 3rd Ed [3.5] Libris Mortis and Pale Master



AnimeTheCat
2017-07-07, 10:55 AM
So I'm reading through Libris Mortis and I came across the Pale Master. Not the greatest class, but not bad and should be fun for a BBEG at some point. The prerequisites though... are odd when looking at the text.

Skills: Knowledge (religion) 8 Ranks. Feat: Skill Focus (Knowledge (religion))

Animate Dead (sp): *snip* For example, a 6th-level sorcerer/3rd-level pale master can animate up to 16 HD of undead with a single use of this ability. Likewise, he can control up to 32 HD of undead created using this ability, the animate dead spell, or both.

So, a few questions here.

1) How in the world can a sorcerer get 8 ranks of knowledge religion by level 6?
2) Is this taken care of in an errata somewhere?
3) Using this ability a Pale Master can control up to 32 HD of Undead, can he also control up to 32 HD of undead using the spell animate dead for a total of 64 HD worth of undead controlled?

Then I got to this ability:
Control Undead (sp): Once per day, a pale master of 5th level or higher can gain control over an undead creature (with Hit Dice equal to or less than his highest arcane caster level) by making a successful touch attack against it. The undead creature receives no saving throw to resist this effect. The control lasts for 1 round per class level.

Is this simply a worse command undead spell like ability that only targets one undead, however it doesn't get a save? Weighing the pros/cons of the two, command undead allows a save but allows you to target 2HD/lvl creatures for minutes per level, this only allows 1 target of 1HD/lvl with no save for rounds per Pale Master Level. You can't target as powerful creatures, it lasts less time, and it's only once per day, but there's no save. Is this really all that good of an ability or did it get errata'd at some point or am I missing something?

thelastorphan
2017-07-07, 01:05 PM
In regards to skill ranks. The 3.5 max rank was your level plus 3. In pathfinder this became the +3 bonus for trained class skills. At first level in 3.5 you multiplied skill points by 4. In pathfinder we don't. So converting to pathfinder you subtract 3 from the skill rank requirement.

Inevitability
2017-07-07, 01:06 PM
Well, the skill ranks are as simple as taking the Education feat, though I doubt WotC was even aware of that when they wrote the sentence.

AnimeTheCat
2017-07-07, 01:30 PM
In regards to skill ranks. The 3.5 max rank was your level plus 3. In pathfinder this became the +3 bonus for trained class skills. At first level in 3.5 you multiplied skill points by 4. In pathfinder we don't. So converting to pathfinder you subtract 3 from the skill rank requirement.

So I know about max skill ranks and all, which is why I was puzzled. If it didn't say "ranks" specifically, I would be ok if the sorcerer had a score of 8 total since there's the Vampiric Touch prerequisite as well. The wizard could get there at level 5, but it would take the sorcerer till level 13 to qualify without taking a feat like Inevitability said and something tells me that they're right that WotC probably didn't have that in mind.

I'M inclined to believe that the skill ranks and skill focus should have been arcana since that is available to wizards and sorcerers alike and you have to be able to cast the two prerequisite spells as arcane spells. If I were to houserule it away, I would just change it to arcana since spell casters are likely to take that skill anyway. I was mostly wondering if there was a known errata or not and some further opinion on the reading of the ability.

Telonius
2017-07-07, 01:44 PM
As far as I know, there isn't one. Example characters are pretty infamous for being poorly-edited. I don't know if there's a compiled list around somewhere of all the rules-illegal builds they've published, but it would probably be a pretty long one.

OldTrees1
2017-07-07, 01:45 PM
The example uses Sorceror 6 because there is a 3rd level spell requirement. The Editors did not look further(but see below)
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To have Level+3 max ranks in a skill you only need to have that skill as a class skill for at least 1 level. The Education feat is a viable option in this case but there are other ways too. (Including the DM houseruling the BBEG knowledge Religion or houseruling Pale Master needs Knowledge Arcana)
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Pale Master's Animate Dead spell-like ability is the same control pool as when the cast the Animate Dead spell so only 32HD not 64HD. Not that it matters anyways: A) Necromancers of the various classes have access to better control pools. & B) You are the DM and thus can add controlled undead until the encounter fits your design
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The Control Undead spell-like ability is referencing the 7th level spell Control Undead. In some ways it is indeed a much weaker version of the Command Undead 2nd level spell. However when used on Intelligent undead the 2nd level spell can only charm while the 7th level spell can command. Although do note this ability is not identical to the 7th level spell (it offers no save but 1/10th the duration and thus is slightly stronger)
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This is a perfectly reasonable case to houserule a different prerequisite. However I would be remiss if I did not mention that Knowledge Religion is the 3.5 equivalent of Knowledge Undead. It makes more sense for a necromancer to know about undead than for pale necromancer to require knowledge about dragons. If I were you I would give the BBEG have Knowledge Religion as a class skill so as to better fit the desired theme
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