"Gritty" rules character build help

[Seekergeek]

So once again I'm coming to the forum looking for some advice on, well, not so much the character because I'll fill in those role play elements after the fact, but a suitable build for an 8th level campaign using some of the alternate rules in the DMG. This is what I know:


We are doing standard point-buy for stats.
We are going to be doing the variant which sees a short rest being 8 hours and a long rest being seven days.
There will be no resurrective magic. Death is permanent.
We will be using the spell point variant.
There will be renaissance firearms and explosives.
Everything is on the table from UA to Planeshift.


The setting itself is going to be custom and I don't know much about it other than that we are going to be starting out session 0 in a magic item auction to gear up.

For the folks who have played using these rule, what classes or class combos do you suspect or have you found to have weathered the storm the best? Considering it doesn't sound like encounters are going to lessen or downtime is going to increase, and considering our games tend to be pretty combat heavy I'm at a bit of a loss as to what may be a good choice to play. I tend to play full casters but I worry about resources in this scenario.

Immediately I thought rogue would be the best bet, but party-wise, I know there will be a rogue already, and because the player tends to be a bit protective of his role, I don't want to run with the same class, even if the subclass is different.

Given it's recent release, the zeal domain is on my mind and seems like when paired with a clever acquisition of booming blade and thunderclap it could do well without burning too many resources. Perhaps a beastmaster ranger could do well to take advantage of the expanded weapons and explosive options?

I know this is not a lot to go on but that's because I'm open to any suggestions. I appreciate your time!

[Easy_Lee]

It sounds like fiend warlock may be a good choice. They have a lot of features that can be used infinite times per day, fiend pact provides a on-demand temporary HP, agonizing eldritch blast is always good damage, and Mask of Many Faces + Shadow Armor would be very nice in a Renaissance / steampunk setting.

My first thought was thief rogue, but I read your post.

[Naanomi]

I would never play a class utilizing long rests for its main features under those rules... so maybe... a Hawk-Headed Aven Sunsoul Monk? 8/17/14/10/17/8 stats?

Or... there is a very high-damage Fallen Aasimar Rogue/Fighter build that doesn't have any rest dependant abilities I like...

Or a halfling battlemaster using the gun rules

Moon Druid is a very good option as well under restrictive rest rules

[strangebloke]

Honestly it shouldn't be any different from any other campaign. All campaigns should have 6-8 encounters between long rests.

That said, in my experience gritty games have more out of combat challenges, so rogues with useful feats and warlocks with relevant invocations are going to dominate.

[Naanomi]

Honestly it shouldn't be any different from any other campaign. All campaigns should have 6-8 encounters between long rests.
Spell durations get thrown for a loop though... Mage Armor will be something that likely lasts one encounter and can't be reliably cast 'ahead of time'; Animate Dead is all but useless; etc

[Waterdeep Merch]

I'd be a fighter so fast. Maybe even a champion fighter (in comes the arguments). They're the least impacted by gritty realism rules, most likely to survive them, and can take ample advantage of the additional weaponry. I might go high strength with a bit more dexterity than usual (probably stop at 14, grab a breastplate) so that I could use firearms well without being reliant on them. Explosives would be my 'utility spells'. I'd definitely go variant human, but for a weirder reason than usual- I would want the Healer feat. So. Bad.

Be cautious on your approach to fights, never fight fair, always set traps when you can. The best way to set off a barrel of black powder is with a gun.

[Foxhound438]

people generally prefer to go for short rest/no rest required stuff, so I guess my recommendation for a build is to be maybe a little more SR dependent than LR, as having a week off every 2 days is probably a bit hard. The best candidates would probably be Fighter, Monk, Rogue, and Warlock. battlemaster fighter with PAM makes a decent tank, shadow monk brings a decent amount of utility both in and out of combat, rogue is a good ranged DPS/skill monkey, and warlock does about as good DPS with some AOE/CC spell options.

side note, I'd probably plan to not have bombs and whatnot, if you're in gritty rest land you're probably in grittier item availability land too. Basically hope to have them, plan to not use them.

[Puh Laden]

How does your DM rule the wizard's arcane recovery? Because RAW it's once per day, unlike the land druid's natural recovery. If you want the challenge of playing a long rest caster in such circumstances, ask your DM about it.

[Hooligan]

Play a rogue

The insecure rogue can toughen up; if he doesn't like the idea of a second one tell him to grow up or go pound sand. Besides 2 of them in a party is quite a bit of fun.

[coolAlias]

Play a rogue

The insecure rogue can toughen up; if he doesn't like the idea of a second one tell him to grow up or go pound sand. Besides 2 of them in a party is quite a bit of fun.
That, and two rogues can play completely differently at the table. What is this player's "niche" that they are so protective of?

If it's anything skill based like handling traps or scouting, then that frees you up to focus your own skills on something else like being the party face.

If it's about hiding constantly for sneak attacks, then build yours around standing up front next to the other melee character(s). You won't have advantage on every attack, but if you go two-weapon-fighting it's practically the same thing.

You could even grab Shield Master (with a level or two of fighter for shield proficiency and other goodies) and expertise in Athletics and your melee friends will love you... though the sniping-from-the-shadows-rogue will not. :P

Otherwise, if it's just about "there can be only one {class} in this party", then Monk is a very viable alternative that has a fair amount of overlap in utility / play style.

[GlenSmash!]

Fighter is probably what I would play, but for something slightly different...

Goliath Barbarian. You'll have 4 rages between Long Rests, so that's likely 2/3 to 1/2 of encounters even with Gritty Realism Rests. Goliaths have the added benefit of a racial ability that recharges on a Short Rest. So I would use it early and often to reduce damage by 1d12 plus Con mod. Since UA is allowed I'd pick the Ancestral Guardian Barbarian as I think it has the most interesting abilities. Zealot Barbarian is great too.

[Naanomi]

Access to ritual magic is very good when magic use in general may be hard to access reliably. Someone playing a Feral Winged Tiefling Warlock with Pact of the Tome is a great option for someone in the party to take.

[mgshamster]

I would totally make a cantrip master. Multiclass the hell out of him to get as many cantrips as possible, and you can cast all day every day.

Then just use your spell slots for some extra oomph now and then by up casting your 1st level spells.

[Naanomi]

I think my ultimate gritty party would be like...

Fallen Aasimar fighter/swashbuckler: AC-tanking and dealing big single-target damage

Lizardman Moon Druid; handles healing and status removal, but also has short-rest Wildshape to keep up and fresh in combat

Winged-Feral Tiefling Fiend Tome-Lok; reliable ranged damage, short-rest spells, and access to all ritual casting without tying yourself down to Wizard Timetables

Goliath Totem Barbarian; HP tanking and also reliable damage dealer, tied to short rests

You don't have anyone stellar in the INT skill department, but otherwise have your good support in every pillar; and can really 'rush encounters' without a lot of long-rests needed if the timetable requires (or would benefit from it). Presuming enemies are on similar restrictions, you could reliably expect to attrition out big targets that don't have time to heal between bouts or replenishing their spells when you keep coming back for rounds three and four more or less refreshed the next day

[Seekergeek]

All pretty solid ideas. I know it's dumb to accommodate the rogue player, but in all honesty we are in our 30s and have been playing together since the 8th grade - we're that strange group of people who have diverged in life significantly, but DnD has remained a fairly constant thing. I know the guy, and it is best to just leave him with his rouge and know everyone is having fun.

If I go against all conventional wisdom presented here and wind up going with some non-warlock caster (Warlock being my current front runner), I would imagine buffing spells are the way to go - I'd hate to be on this kind of restrictive system and have the target of my spells make their save or to miss my spell attack roll.

[imanidiot]

I'll go exactly the opposite direction and say Divination Wizard. I'm going to assume due to the ruleset that spelllcasters are extremely rare. I'd take Magic Initiate for Eldritch Blast and some sort of alchemy so I can make bomns and gunpowder. During downtime sell of divination rituals to the local authorities for exorbitant prices and use the proceeds to hire a small army of mercenary bodyguards.

Use those extra divination spells and rituals to gather information out of combat and feed it to you party. My party will always have more information about our opponents than they have about us and will always have more manpower and firepower.

Edit: Get some chainmail and a crossbow and stand near the bqck. You aren't a wizard, you're just the new guy.

[Spiritchaser]

Life cleric 1, lore bard/Warlock.
Great skills, plenty of damage, and if you somehow live long enough, you can fire off extra powerful aura of vitality with short rest slots.

[Arkhios]

What's your DM's stance about homebrew?

I'm asking this because the Warlord in my signature was intentionally created as a no-magic go-to option for players who might be interested in group support (kinda like no-spells-bard in a way) and to be competent in battle.

I've had similar idea about a campaign brewing in my head for quite some time, which was intended as the default setting for the Warlord in question.

[follacchioso]

Given the long time scale, it may be worth asking your dm how he is going to handle crafting. If you can transcribe a few scrolls (wizard), brew a couple of healing potions (cleric or druid), or even craft some magic weapon during a one-week long rest, then you have a few extra resources under your sleeve when in need.

[JellyPooga]

Do not, I repeat, DO NOT play a Barbarian under Gritty Realism rules; they get completely hosed by having to rest for a week between their allotment of Rage. More so than other Classes do, IMO.

Something to bear in mind about Gritty Realism is the relative difference between Short and Long rests;

Normal Rules: Short Rest = 1 hour, Long Rest = 8 hours. 8/1 = 8.
Gritty Rules: Short Rest 8 hours, Long Rest = 168 hours. 168/8 = 21.

That makes Long Rests almost 3 times as long compared to "Normal" rules. Yes, you should (given a GM who knows what s/he's doing) only have the same number of encounters before having to Long Rest, whichever rules you're using, but it doesn't change the fact that a Long Rest is comparatively that much longer, reducing the efficacy of Long Rest abilities.

That's ignoring the opportunity cost of Short and Long Rests. In Normal play, you can always get a Long Rest; everyone (mostly) has to sleep some time, so may as well take a Long Rest while you're at it. Under Gritty rules, that Long Rest becomes a Short Rest. You will (almost) always get a Short Rest every day. No one needs to have a weeks holiday (mostly), so it's entirely possible to play entire adventures, even campaigns, without taking a Long Rest when using Gritty rules. This is a significant change in pacing and Class balance.-

Some general advice from personal experience;

- Warlocks are the king of spellcasting under Gritty Realism. Being able to pump out several non-cantrip spells every day makes you a significant player compared to other full-casters that are forced to horde their spell slots like a miser. A Warlock is probably far more likely to be recognised as a spellcaster than others because they can be that much more liberal with their spells. This may be reflected in the campaign setting; Warlocks may be viewed in a (more) negative light by common folk because they have the ability to be more careless and reckless with their spells, spellcasting organisations may have rules or prejudices against those that make Pacts for their magic, so be wary of Mage Guilds and the like. If you decide to play a Warlock, I'd advise care before casually throwing around more powerful spells and if you do, then subtlety may be key to survival.

- Bards do surprisingly poorly under Gritty Realism...at least before level 5 when Bardic Inspiration starts refreshing on a Short Rest. After level 5 they really start coming into their own and the tables start turning, because that BI goes a long way to make up for whatever lack they have in the spellcasting department and their College and other Bard features start coming online to further mitigate the Long Rest problem with spellcasting. One feature Bards get that is often overlooked in Normal play that really shines in Gritty play is Song of Rest; the extra healing is great, but when it takes a week to refresh everyones HD, anything that makes those HD stretch a little further is truly invaluable. If every HD a character has is like a personal Healing Potion, SoR is like an ability that empowers all those potions. To add a little mathmatics to the table; a party of four level 4 characters, each with d8 HD can "naturally" heal an average of 4x4x4.5=72hp by spending HD during Short Rests. If even one of those characters is a Bard, SoR increases that by 56 (4x4x3.5) to 128. A 4th level Life Cleric that wants to heal 56hp across 4 characters has to expend a 2nd level spell slot (Prayer of Healing); more than that for a non-Life Cleric; a significant investment when spell slots are so limited.

- Rogues do about as well under Gritty as they do under Normal rules; with their almost null reliance on any kind of rest, they simply don't care either way. Arcane Tricksters are the obvious exception and I highly recommend not playing one; even under Normal rules, they have few enough spell slots. An AT under Gritty rules may as well not have spell slots because he'll get to use them so infrequently.