Is There A Ranger/Wizard Hybrid in PF?

[Palanan]

Is there any kind of archetype or class that provides a decent hybrid of wizard and ranger?

Ideally I’d like a wizard capable of operating in a wilderness environment—not your typical pointy-hat, dusty-scroll wizard, but someone who combines arcane magic with woodcraft and combat utility.

I’m aware of VMC, but that’s not what I’m looking for; I’m more interested in something along the lines of the Eldritch Scoundrel, but with a strong dash of ranger instead of rogue. Is there anything like that out there? Official Pathfinder only, please.

[Blyte]

not exactly what you are looking for, but you might try the sorcerer with the bloodline that gives you a druid familiar. It probably has woodsy skills as well.

[Psyren]

Are you married to it being a wizard? Because this sounds more like a Witch to me.

If it must be Wizard, you could go for Wood Elementalist with some outdoorsy traits - that should capture the fluff you want and let you keep the wiz list.

[ATHATH]

You could also just be a Druid.

IIRC, the Spell Sage archetype lets you cast spells from other spell lists, albeit in an awkward fashion.

If 3.5 material is available, be a Ranger (or a Mystic Ranger, if your DM lets you take variants from 3.5) with the Sword of the Arcane Order feat. Alternatively, be a Wizard that has dipped into Prestige Ranger for a level (use the Arcane Disciple and Southern Magician feats to pick up the required spell as a divine spell).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
If it must be Wizard, you could go for Wood Elementalist with some outdoorsy traits - that should capture the fluff you want and let you keep the wiz list.

Interesting, thanks. This almost looks like a nod from Paizo to the wu jen.

However, I’m not just going for a woodsy feel; I’m looking for skills like survival, tracking, stealth, terrain and combat options, combined with wizardly spellcasting. Definitely no witchiferous wiles here.

Something like the 3.5 mystic ranger with arcane casting would be very close to what I’m looking for...but it sounds like Pathfinder doesn’t have anything quite like that.

[ATHATH]

Interesting, thanks. This almost looks like a nod from Paizo to the wu jen.

However, I’m not just going for a woodsy feel; I’m looking for skills like survival, tracking, stealth, terrain and combat options, combined with wizardly spellcasting. Definitely no witchiferous wiles here.

Something like the 3.5 mystic ranger with arcane casting would be very close to what I’m looking for...but it sounds like Pathfinder doesn’t have anything quite like that.
Just be a Ranger 1/Witch (or Wizard) X, then, if all you want is the skill list and the theme.

[ATHATH]

The Spirit Hunter and Witchguard archetypes for the Ranger are kind of spellcaster-y.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by ATHATH
The Spirit Hunter and Witchguard archetypes for the Ranger are kind of spellcaster-y.

The Witchguard only has very limited arcane spellcasting, and it seems to be based around being someone else’s bodyguard, which won’t work here.

As for "Spirit Hunter," I can’t find an archetype by that name. Did you mean Yokai Hunter or Spirit Ranger?

[Psyren]

Interesting, thanks. This almost looks like a nod from Paizo to the wu jen.

That's exactly what it is (except they included Air.)

Well okay, the Spell Secrets aren't there - but you can just, I dunno, decide not to bathe and pick up metamagic anyway if you want.



However, I’m not just going for a woodsy feel; I’m looking for skills like survival, tracking, stealth, terrain and combat options, combined with wizardly spellcasting.

As I mentioned though, you can get all that stuff from traits. Want to be a foraging wizard who makes his tome out of treebark, you can do that.



Something like the 3.5 mystic ranger with arcane casting would be very close to what I’m looking for...but it sounds like Pathfinder doesn’t have anything quite like that.

Aside from ranger proficiencies (unnecessary) and ranger spells (researchable), I'm not sure what exactly Mystic Ranger gets you.

[ATHATH]

The Witchguard only has very limited arcane spellcasting, and it seems to be based around being someone else’s bodyguard, which won’t work here.

As for "Spirit Hunter," I can’t find an archetype by that name. Did you mean Yokai Hunter or Spirit Ranger?
Sorry, I meant Spirit Ranger.

[ATHATH]

Wilderness Medic archetype (for the Ranger) kind of works.

[ATHATH]

Raven Masters (Ranger archetype) get to add one Bard spell of each level to their spell lists, and Corpse Hunters (Ranger archetype) add a few extra spells to their list as well.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
Aside from ranger proficiencies (unnecessary) and ranger spells (researchable), I'm not sure what exactly Mystic Ranger gets you.

This I don’t follow. The ranger proficiencies are part of my concept, and I’m only interested in arcane spells here, so there’s no need to research ranger spells.


Originally Posted by ATHATH
Wilderness Medic archetype (for the Ranger) kind of works.

Thanks, but this doesn’t seem to have any connection to arcane magic, which is central to my concept. Nor does the Spirit Ranger.

I’m getting the sense that Pathfinder really doesn’t have a neat fit for what I’m looking for. That’s good to know on its own.

[Cyrocloud]

The Psychic Detective archetype for investigators might fit. You get 6th level psychic casting (could be roleplayed as channeling nature spirits or more arcane, what ever floats your boat) and a bunch of skills that you could use to make you more woodsy (the perceptive tracking talent would make up for not having survival as a class skill). The Studied combat I think works pretty well for a woodsy character that stalks their pray too.

[ATHATH]

This I don’t follow. The ranger proficiencies are part of my concept, and I’m only interested in arcane spells here, so there’s no need to research ranger spells.



Thanks, but this doesn’t seem to have any connection to arcane magic, which is central to my concept. Nor does the Spirit Ranger.

I’m getting the sense that Pathfinder really doesn’t have a neat fit for what I’m looking for. That’s good to know on its own.
Well, it kind of does. Again, what's wrong with being a Wizard that dips into Ranger for a level to pick up skills/flavor?

[Elder_Basilisk]

I'd look into magus as a base.

The most basic option is straight up magus and use your traits for survival and stealth skills. Alternately one or two levels of ranger-or slayer-would get you the skills you're looking for and then you would have an arcane spellcasting weapon combatant with wilderness skills.

There might be a 3rd party archetype that does exactly what you want with magus too.

Ranger /wizard/arcane Archer is another possibility. You end up as more of an Archer with some limited spells than a wizard with wilderness skills, but it also delivers some of what you want

[Psyren]

I’m getting the sense that Pathfinder really doesn’t have a neat fit for what I’m looking for. That’s good to know on its own.

If the specific thing you want is Mystic Ranger and absolutely nothing else will suffice, then no, it doesn't. Though I find Mystic Ranger itself to be a silly concept anyway. Living off the land and foraging shouldn't really be leaving you with a lot of time for formal study of arcana.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Elder_Basilisk
I'd look into magus as a base.

The most basic option is straight up magus and use your traits for survival and stealth skills.

Interesting, thanks. The Eldritch Scoundrel uses the magus spell progression, and I’ve been thinking along those lines.


Originally Posted by Psyren
If the specific thing you want is Mystic Ranger and absolutely nothing else will suffice, then no, it doesn't.

That's not what I said. I was giving the mystic ranger as an example, and certainly not the only option. In the OP I mentioned the Eldritch Scoundrel, and a wizard/ranger version of that would be close to ideal.


Originally Posted by Psyren
Though I find Mystic Ranger itself to be a silly concept anyway. Living off the land and foraging shouldn't really be leaving you with a lot of time for formal study of arcana.

Again I’m a little perplexed. The mystic ranger is a divine caster, with no arcane study involved.

That said, hunter-gatherer societies typically have plenty of leisure time, and there’s no a priori reason why a skilled forager couldn’t spend that time studying.

[Psyren]

Again I’m a little perplexed. The mystic ranger is a divine caster, with no arcane study involved.

That said, hunter-gatherer societies typically have plenty of leisure time, and there’s no a priori reason why a skilled forager couldn’t spend that time studying.

I might have confused it with SotAO. But my point actually still stands - divine magic while living off the land makes sense, because it is granted rather than studied. Thus you do have time to pursue both. Expecting a wizard version of same would not make sense in my mind.

Other forms of arcane magic like bard and sorcerer would make more sense since they don't require study. Some kind of fey-themed bard might give you the nature, skills and better magic progression you seem to want. And of course witch, which is also largely granted. But definitely not wizardry.



That's not what I said. I was giving the mystic ranger as an example, and certainly not the only option. In the OP I mentioned the Eldritch Scoundrel, and a wizard/ranger version of that would be close to ideal.

Any reason you can't just be a wilderness rogue then?

[Florian]

@Palanan:

Your question is confusing as you do describe a Gish but use the terms Wizard and Ranger.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
Expecting a wizard version of same would not make sense in my mind.

Makes perfect sense to me. But then, it’s my concept. :smallsmile:


Originally Posted by Psyren
Any reason you can't just be a wilderness rogue then?

Well, apart from the complete lack of arcane casting, which as I’ve mentioned is central to this concept.

Given all the above, it sounds like I need to brew up an Eldritch Ranger.


Originally Posted by Psyren
Some kind of fey-themed bard might give you the nature, skills and better magic progression you seem to want.

This is an interesting concept on its own, though. Worth developing in parallel, thanks.

If only Nymph's Kiss was available in Pathfinder....

.

[Grod_The_Giant]

So you want what, survival, stealth, tracking, Favored Terrain, and arcane casting? I... honestly feel like you could pull that off with simple skill point investment and maybe a trait or two. Maaaybe a level of Ranger, or a gish-wizard build.

The best published thing I'm finding is... not first party, I don't think, but the Skulking Hunter archetype for the Hunter lets you pull spells off the Sorcerer/Wizard and Ranger lists, and gives you the Slayer's Studied Target (~Favored Enemy).


The Psychic Detective archetype for investigators might fit. You get 6th level psychic casting (could be roleplayed as channeling nature spirits or more arcane, what ever floats your boat) and a bunch of skills that you could use to make you more woodsy (the perceptive tracking talent would make up for not having survival as a class skill). The Studied combat I think works pretty well for a woodsy character that stalks their pray too.
I'll second this. Or heck, stick with the alchemy; that's relatively arcane flavor-wise. Take a trait to pick up Survival as a class skill, maybe spend a Talent on Unconventional Inspiration and you're pretty much good to go.

[Psyren]

Well, apart from the complete lack of arcane casting, which as I’ve mentioned is central to this concept.

I meant take an Eldritch Soundrel, then stick him in the woods. Fluff to taste.



The best published thing I'm finding is... not first party, I don't think, but the Skulking Hunter archetype for the Hunter lets you pull spells off the Sorcerer/Wizard and Ranger lists, and gives you the Slayer's Studied Target (~Favored Enemy).


Looks like it's from Everyman, the same guy that made the Pactmaker, so if nothing else it should be good as far as 3PP goes.

[Florian]

How about using the Hinterlander PrC?

[Ellrin]

I'm a little late to the discussion, but I have to say that after reading everything so far, I'm a little confused about what you actually WANT here.

So far I've picked up:
Wilderness skill set
Arcane casting
Maybe a 2/3 casting ranger/wizard hybrid-in-a-can?

Aside from not being the ready-made hybrid you seem to be looking for--and no, Pathfinder does not currently have one of those--, virtually every arcane caster in the game can accomplish the rest with the right trait and feat selection, and/or a level dip, so I'm really kind of curious what exactly you want out of this. What are you looking for that some fairly minor refluffing and feats/traits/dips can't accomplish? Combat styles? A pet? Favored enemies? What?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Florian
How about using the Hinterlander PrC?

Very interesting, thanks. I’d never heard of that one before.

Overall it looks intriguing. The favored terrain seems strangely limiting to me, and a little odd in how it would operate. Does the hinterlander lose his mojo when he strikes out into true wilderness? And what if he passes by a qualifying community without knowing it’s there? Does he suddenly become faster and more perceptive when walking on the far side of a river that’s ten miles from a small community? That strikes me as very odd.

On the other hand, it’s always nice to see a little archery love, and the additional favored enemy abilities look pretty decent. Certainly a PrC worth thinking about.


Originally Posted by Ellrin
I'm a little late to the discussion, but I have to say that after reading everything so far, I'm a little confused about what you actually WANT here.


Originally Posted by Palanan
Ideally I’d like a wizard…who combines arcane magic with woodcraft and combat utility.

…I’m looking for skills like survival, tracking, stealth, terrain and combat options, combined with wizardly spellcasting.


Originally Posted by Ellrin
Maybe a 2/3 casting ranger/wizard hybrid-in-a-can?

Yes, that's very much what I'm interested in.

As you say, Pathfinder doesn't seem to have one of these, so I'll be working on something myself. I appreciate the suggestions.

.

[ATHATH]

Alright, I think I've got your solution here: Heart of the Wilderness Human Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue.

I know you've already looked at Eldritch Scoundrel, but bear with me here.

"I’m looking for skills like survival, tracking, stealth, terrain and combat options, combined with wizardly spellcasting."
Survival: Heart of the Wilderness gives you a +1/2 character level bonus to Survival checks, and you can get Survival as an in-class skill with the Cosmopolitan feat (refluff it if you want to).
Track: Part of the Survival skill (you can do it better than a Ranger as well, due to Heart of the Wilderness being flat-out superior to the Ranger's Track ability).
Stealth: In-class skill.
Terrain and combat options: Rogue talents have got you covered- you can even flat out pick up Favored Terrain as a Rogue talent!
Wizardly Spellcasting: You get 2/3 spellcasting; that should be more than enough for a hybrid.

[Ellrin]

Very interesting, thanks. I’d never heard of that one before.

Overall it looks intriguing. The favored terrain seems strangely limiting to me, and a little odd in how it would operate. Does the hinterlander lose his mojo when he strikes out into true wilderness? And what if he passes by a qualifying community without knowing it’s there? Does he suddenly become faster and more perceptive when walking on the far side of a river that’s ten miles from a small community? That strikes me as very odd.

On the other hand, it’s always nice to see a little archery love, and the additional favored enemy abilities look pretty decent. Certainly a PrC worth thinking about.







Yes, that's very much what I'm interested in.

As you say, Pathfinder doesn't seem to have one of these, so I'll be working on something myself. I appreciate the suggestions.

.

I mean, if you want a competent wizard-like archer with woodsy skills, you could always just go with an eldritch archer, grab a race and/or traits with the skills you want as class skills (or that grant bonuses), and invest in Craft (carpentry) and Craft (tanning).

Or you could go digging through third-party material and/or homebrew.

[Wartex1]

You could go with a Witch with the Arcane Archer prestige class.

[Psyren]

You could go with a Witch with the Arcane Archer prestige class.

He doesn't want Witch for... whatever reason.

[Wartex1]

He doesn't want Witch for... whatever reason.

Okay.

I guess Wizard with Arcane Archer plus Improved Familiar?

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Heart of the Wilderness Eldritch Scoundrel seems like the best fit here in 1st party.