Im not sure how to build my bard. Any advice?

[dragsaw]

I'm trying to make a bard but i dont know how best to build him to fit my party. So far it consists of a fighter, monk, doppelganger (long story) warlock, ranger and some one who still needs to pick. Sadly i am away from home this week and will be unable to find out.

It is a melee heavy party but not a super meaty one and i dont know how best to fit my guy in. I guess best would be meaty melee with a range fall back? But im not sure how to build that.

We are all Lv. 1-2 and my rolled stats are: 18, 18, 18, 16, 14, 13.

I'm leaning towards Dragonborn mostly for style factors, and I like playing weird races. If I do go valor, I would like high Int for history checks for knowing obscure legends.

[Aaron Underhand]

Hi there,

Lots of questions, but let me say what I see immediately.

Your party has no healing, no arcane caster, and from what you have said is melee biased.

So remember that Bards are full caster support characters.

I was in a similar situation and I chose to play a human Lore Bard with one level dip into Wizard (at 2nd level).

I took the Healer feat at first level. The Inspiring Leader feat is another alternative, but I prefer Healer as you have a secondary effect of always being able to get a fallen comrade to 1HP - which at least makes them mobile.

This character stays back - uses minor illusion to set up cover. Heals out of combat with healer's kits (make every party member carry one). Has healing word for in combat emergencies (after someone drops). Has most of the 1st level wizard rituals for no-cost casting. Has Wizard cantrips for at will damage, typically an Unseen Servant to use bonus actions (and carry a light), and great reactions with cutting words. For magic secrets take Counterspell and Fireball at Bard 6 - your party will need the AoE help - I find I cast Shatter a lot, and Magic Missile to force enemy casters to make Con saves, and to finish off the not quite dead enemies before they get another chance to attack.

Having a blast with this character, but never in melee.

We did points buy, with your mind blowing stats you'll have an easier time. I would go:

Str 13+1, Dex 18, Con 16+1, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 18. Feats after Healer - Resilient Con and Alert (Would probably get alert first). Dragonborn would work as well - just take Healer at 4th level.

I would take this character even if the unknown player picks a cleric. Let them wade in with spirit guardians... you play the God Wizard type character.

If you really feel the need to enter melee then I would consider Bard with a single level dip into Arcarna cleric instead. Get one of Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade plus Firebolt and a shield, but stay Lore Bard - Swap Int and Wis.

Oh, and just for fun do what I did - add a background that allows thieves tools. Don't go scouting (that's suicide), but you can be the lock pick/trapfinder - you could even make Wis the odd stat instead of evening Strength, and then pick up the Observant feat to get Wis 16 and great perception! With the Wizard dip you can get a familiar to scout - I use an owl, and have her invisible most of the time for out of combat scouting...


So - What is the Doppleganger playing? What sources can you use?

Edited for typos...

[djreynolds]

I'm trying to make a bard but i dont know how best to build him to fit my party. So far it consists of a fighter, monk, doppelganger (long story) warlock, ranger and some one who still needs to pick. Sadly i am away from home this week and will be unable to find out.

It is a melee heavy party but not a super meaty one and i dont know how best to fit my guy in. I guess best would be meaty melee with a range fall back? But im not sure how to build that.

We are all Lv. 1-2 and my rolled stats are: 18, 18, 18, 16, 14, 13.

I'm leaning towards Dragonborn mostly for style factors, and I like playing weird races. If I do go valor, I would like high Int for history checks for knowing obscure legends.

Grab Valor bard and get shield master and expertise in athletics and set the table for you pals.

Can still get expertise in history

[Spore]

In my very limited experience D&D 5 doesn't need AS much healing as previous editions but it certainly helps. And with your party setup I would ensure they are well protected from their own ressources first. Many tables forget that they are responsible for their character's safety too. So don't allow the Fighter to go in without appropriate armor. Tell the Monk his class is a skirmisher and not a tank. And show the Warlock why his class has light armor proficiency. I don't care if robes suit your mental image better.

Secondly you would want to decide if you want to lead from the front or the back. I feel a supportive Lore Bard (with Aura of Vitality and Prayer of Healing) can work with that setup. But hear me out. I think a Bardadin could work as well and would put the Strength bonus of Dragonborn to good use. Your stats are beyond godly and should be put to good use.

I am not sure about the specifics but I feel a Dragonborn Paladin/Bard who poses as healer, tank, face and leader of the group is a great idea and would work with your stats.

[dragsaw]

Ok that does should pretty cool. Rules are 5e and UA but the dm likes 3.5 a lot more and wants to bring some atuff like spells in. Doppelganger as in the monster. He killed our rouge. Replaced him and some how joined us when we found out.

Bardarian and pally bard do sould good. But would it be better to start as bard or barb/pally for them?

[Spore]

I can't help you with a rules secure solution until after my travels until Tuesday - or Wednesday if I manage to squeeze in a visit to my BF. I just wanted to pitch the idea because that sounds ridiculously awesome even if it would not make for the greatest character on the rules side. :smallsmile:

As for the RP of a Bard/Paladin I would honestly just focus on his intense charisma and leadership. You are a chosen of [insert demigod of art and jolly frolicking] and enjoy helping people to go into the arts, produce the finest wines, live life to their fullest. Of course you know about the serious and sometimes dirty parts of your job. Tyrants who censor writing. Bandits who steal artwork. People who abuse drugs. You could just be an adventurer with a pretty good link to the divines. You could be a fanatical student of the arcane arts, you could just try to realize who your ancestors were?

I just LOOOOVE me some Paladins, man. Just do yourself a favor and don't be the "stick in the mud" type of Paladin everyone hates. Your party consists of a Warlock (protect his soul from the demons?) of a murderous Doppelganger (convince him to use his powers for good to atone for his crime) and some more heroes that could improve their actions upon your example. Just don't push your agenda onto them. Lead by example not by sermon.

[dragsaw]

Sadly by then it would be game day. Your are more than welcome to pitch the idea anyway!

[nickl_2000]

Since you are allowed UA check out the college of glamour. At early levels the temp HP for multiple people and AoO free movement for a single use of bardic inspiration is quite amazing. Then go half-elf for 20 cha and you have lots of spell choices, and amazing save DC, and uses of inspirational.

Then you can rock vicious mockery for disadvantage in battle for awhile and Healing word for healing in battle and you should be fine

[djreynolds]

[QUOTE=dragsaw;22173078]

We are all Lv. 1-2 and my rolled stats are: 18, 18, 18, 16, 14, 13.
QUOTE]

These stats are awesome, you can really do anything. Place those 18s in dex and strength and charisma and go to town.

You can multiclass with anything.

I would snag a level cleric just for the heavy armor proficiency and some good 1st level spells as you can grab this at anytime during your leveling up.

Enjoy this character and these rolls, make something special, heroic.

[Aaron Underhand]

I guess I should add:

If it's a melee heavy party and you try to go Melee as well then everyone will be crowding for the melee limelight. You'll shine, and allow the other party members to shine, if you play the support character... Sure you could be a palibard or Valor bard with great combat abilities, but the party has lots of combat characters - it doesn't have utility casters, AoE, control, healing... all areas where you can shine...

[dragsaw]

That is a good point. For some reason it feels kinda like a waste of my stupid good stats though. Like it actually feels like that's what's made this hard...

Maybe some kind of melee or mid-front support like somthing that can "flex" depending on a encounter by encounter basis?

[nickl_2000]

That is a good point. For some reason it feels kinda like a waste of my stupid good stats though. Like it actually feels like that's what's made this hard...

Maybe some kind of melee or mid-front support like somthing that can "flex" depending on a encounter by encounter basis?

You can run a valor bard if you want to flex, but if your party doesn't need it then you would be better off with lore or glamour. You will also likely be the party face and skill monkey so the high stats help for that.


You can also persuade another player to play a bard and try and go paladin or one of the more MAD multi I-classes. Your stats would be killer in that situation. You could also be a 20 AC bare chest sword and board barbarian (or 18 great weapon), that would be huge amounts of fun

[MadCircus]

If it's a melee heavy party and you try to go Melee as well then everyone will be crowding for the melee limelight. You'll shine, and allow the other party members to shine, if you play the support character... Sure you could be a palibard or Valor bard with great combat abilities, but the party has lots of combat characters - it doesn't have utility casters, AoE, control, healing... all areas where you can shine...

This. Even though you rolled an awesome array, your party would be better with a full caster/party-face/skill monkey.
That said, you could benefit from a 1-lvl dip in any full caster class, say draconic sorcerer for cantrips and all-time mage armour (13+dex AC), or a life cleric for bonus on healing.

Bards by themselves have many proficiences in skills plus you have jack of all trades for those skills you don't. Take counterspell and buffs for your party with Magical Secrets and you're set.
Get Lucky as a feat if you have ASI to spare, might even go for Burglar (from UA) to get thieves tools proficiency as well.

[JBPuffin]

Dex, Con, and Cha all at 18, 16 Wis, nothing less than +1...There's literally nothing you couldn't do. Go crazy!

[MeeposFire]

I would say stick with the bard plan and go for ultimate flexibility. With your stats you can actually make that go really well. For instance most characters cannot pull off using ranged weapons, high damage melee weapons, and have excellent casting but YOU can. Put those 18s into str/con/and cha and 16 in dex. Go valor bard since it sounds like you want to be less of a dedicated caster. Wear the best medium armor you can find (eventual medium armor master will grant you +1 AC due to 16 dex and better stealth) and you can swing for decent damage using something like a long sword and shield. For ranged keep some throwing weapons or even a ranged weapon (for a long while that 16 dex will keep your ranged weapon attacks viable) and you can also use cantrips such as vicious mockery.

Going ranged primary might be better for your party in which case give your character an 18 in dex/con/cha and use primarily a bow and spells with a rapier or twin scimitars as a back up. Less AC but more versatile for your party.

Use your spells to help when needed and be sure to take skills that nobody else can use well. Same goes for tools something like thieves tools can be really helpful.

[Finger6842]

I'm trying to make a bard but i dont know how best to build him to fit my party. So far it consists of a fighter, monk, doppelganger (long story) warlock, ranger and some one who still needs to pick. Sadly i am away from home this week and will be unable to find out.

It is a melee heavy party but not a super meaty one and i dont know how best to fit my guy in. I guess best would be meaty melee with a range fall back? But im not sure how to build that.

We are all Lv. 1-2 and my rolled stats are: 18, 18, 18, 16, 14, 13.

I'm leaning towards Dragonborn mostly for style factors, and I like playing weird races. If I do go valor, I would like high Int for history checks for knowing obscure legends.

Crazy stats, start with:
STR 18
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 18
WIS 13
CHA 16

Add Half Elf Lore Bard
STR 18 +4
DEX 18 +4
CON 16 +3
INT 18 +4
WIS 13 +1
CHA 18 +4

Start with cantrips Vicious Mockery and Thunderclap, 1st Thunderwave and Cure Wounds.
At 2nd and 3rd level take 1 level of:
Fighter for Fighting styles (Archery or Defense), Long Bow, Shield, and Second Wind
OR 1 level of Wizard for ritual casting, 3 canaries (Firebolt, Mage Hand, Ray of Frost), and 5 first level spells (shield, find familiar, comprehend languages, tensers floating disc, and ice knife recommended)
OR 1 level of Cleric with either Life, Tempest or War domain. (swap WIS and DEX in this case).
At lvl 4 (2 Bard, 1 Fighter, 1 Wizard) get song of rest and Jack of all trades. +1 1st = Faire Fire
At lvl 5 (3 Bard, 1 Fighter, 1 Wizard) take College of Lore and get Expertise.
+1 1st Tasha's Hideous Laughter, +2 2nd Shatter, Invisibility, See Invisibility, Silence or Heat Metal
At lvl 6 (4 Bard, 1 Fighter, 1 Wizard) +1 2nd, +1 Cantrip Light
ASI Take a Feat (Observant +1 WIS, War Caster, Polearm Master, Alert, or Dual Wielder) or CHA/CON +2. Note: Feat would be based on your choices so far and the campaign/DM style, definitely complement your build and remember, magic items can improve stats so leave cap room if possible.

There are a few other Bard abilities, several skills, backgrounds and etc. Potentially 5 18's at level 4-6 is godlike.

[cZak]

Hi there,

I took the Healer feat at first level. The Inspiring Leader feat is another alternative, but I prefer Healer as you have a secondary effect of always being able to get a fallen comrade to 1HP - which at least makes them mobile.
Edited for typos...

I was considering this on a Rogue (Thief) with the fast hands ability.
Bonus action to restore 1d6+hit die + 1 seems handy for CoS

[bid]

I'm leaning towards Dragonborn mostly for style factors, and I like playing weird races. If I do go valor, I would like high Int for history checks for knowing obscure legends.
Dragonborn Str15 Dex18 Con18 Int16 Wis14 Cha19.
There's more than enough damage rolling around in your party, melee is packed. The only reason to go valor would be to play wrestler.

Dipping knowledge cleric would boost your history checks and offer the same AC19 as valor bard. It seems better for you than the typical life domain with heavy armor. In all cases, Str15 is more than enough.

Your stats are excessive, you can grab a few feats early on. Inspiring leader should be your first pick, with resilient(Con) and Con+1/Cha+1 later on if you don't like actor. Lucky is always a safe pick.

[dragsaw]

Those are all good points. I guess it also maybe a good idea to look into a more support paladin aswell? Cleric seems a bit too holy for what i have in mind

[djreynolds]

Those are all good points. I guess it also maybe a good idea to look into a more support paladin aswell? Cleric seems a bit too holy for what i have in mind

Paladin/bard.... hmm... they just synergize so well, I wonder if there are any builds like this??

But you can do anything with those rolls, please make this character the greatest ever. Great rolls scream paladin.

You could make a barbarian/paladin/bard and get a war hammer and call yourself.... I don't know... Thor. And even toss is some ranger for giant hating.

[dragsaw]

More of a full paladin based around support

[Spore]

My vacation was cut short a bit but I am happy to be home. I will pitch my Paladin/Bard idea further now.

Dragonborn Str 14(+2) Dex 18 Con 18 Wis 13 Int 16 Cha 18

Sage background/Lore Bard : Persuasion, Deception, Insight. You look into the hearts of the people and tell them what they want to hear or convince them of your ways. Expertise probably into either Deception (not being able to convince someone isnt as dangerous as allowing people to see through your lies) or History/Arcana (depending on your campaign focus). Languages would be Common, Draconic, Elven (most settings have Elves as old races) and something for everyday use. But maybe Celestial. As for instruments I'd go for war drums (because you can fashion them pretty easily and they help with marching), a string instrument (maybe a big lute) and some woodwind instruments.

You wander the land in search of new mystcal arcana. To uncover ancient secrets, forgotten kingdoms. You tend to start lecturing people about the artists and great people of ages past. But unlike with your professor, your stories are enthralling. Because you can make them visible with your illusion spells. Maybe because you can show off your occasional dragon fire.

After checking the books and thinking about it for a while I see that maybe multiclassing Paladin isn't doing your combat options any good. I would suggest Bard 4 / Paladin 2 but talk to your DM if he thinks the melee is overcrowded. Because standard encounters would be. But DMs tend to have their own ideas of combat some day or other.

[Klorox]

Maybe it's because I'm half in the bag, but WTF kind of rolling system do you play with? Seriously? Three 18's??

I've been playing D&D since the mid 1980's and never rolled three 18's.