Building a Wizard

[robbie374]

I'm looking to play a Wizard, and UA is allowed. We are using Point Buy from the PHB. The party I am in does not have a dedicated healer, though it does have a Bard. Here are some things I am thinking about:

Multiclassing:
- Taking a level of Fighter gives armor and Con saves. I could take Resilient (Dex) to have the top two saves.
- Taking a level of Cleric gives armor and a bunch of spells, including extra cantrips (I like cantrips), and possibly a cool first level feature, but no Con save. Would I take Resilient (Dex) or Resilient (Con) in this case? Also, it requires a starting Wisdom of 13, which is rather inconvenient. Which domain would I pick?

Race:
- Deep Gnome is wizardly. I wish the extra feat was a part of the race though, and it would be best for an Abjurer, but is cool either way. Also, a small gnome could hide easily behind a Minor Illusion or maybe a Minor Conjuration. Also, they have advantage on Wisdom saves.
- Assimar has ability increases that do not match wizards at all, but they can fly some a third level and are overall cool.
- High Elf is wizardly as well.

Wizard subclass:
- Divination has Portent, which is neat, but otherwise seems kind of dull.
- Abjuration is tough, but unexciting. The capstone overlaps somewhat with a Deep Gnome's save advantages.
- Illusion sounds cool, but very DM-dependent and in need of creativity. Illusory Reality is awesome, but not being able to deal damage creates a major gray area.
- Conjuration sounds fun, but Wizards seem to lack most of the decent Conjuration spells.
- Lore Master is pretty cool, though Alchemical Casting seems a bit weird: I don't know that I would want to sacrifice spells slots for those things.
- Theurgy gives lots of options, but then Cleric domains have to be chosen. Which would be the best? I don't want to be a healbot. I like Spirit Guardians and some other Cleric spells, and it could thematically fit with being an Assimar. I don't want to be in melee or using weapons unless absolutely necessary, so all the benefits to those are not to my liking. Also, our campaign is largely underground.

Feats I've considered:
- Reslient (Dex) or Resilient (Con)
- Warcaster
- Lucky
- Deep Gnome's magic feat
- Keen Mind
- Medium Armor Master

Any feedback would be appreciated. If you ask me questions, I will answer them.

What do you think would be a fun build to play

[Specter]

Fun is relative, but Fighter 1/Abjurer X is very tough. I'd recommend Human or High Elf. Also don't worry too much about higher levels because there's a chance your campaign won't even get that far.

As for feats, Keen Mind and MAM are trash, and Resilient (DEX) is not vital.

[Hooligan]

Don't worry about mcing. Go straight wizard. Maximize that spellcasting potency.

I like forest gnome or high elf. Anything will do though.

20 int takes priority over feats. After that it's hard to go wrong with resilient con.

Most of the schools are great, however some are more campaign/DM dependent than others. After factoring that in I think a lot of it comes down to personal taste. Myself, I like divination. Portent might be my favorite class feature in the entire game.

[Zanthy1]

I finally got a chance to play a bladesinger and absolutely loved it, tons of fun.

[Naanomi]

Deep Gnome racial feat plays very well with Abjurer

[Citan]

I'm looking to play a Wizard, and UA is allowed. We are using Point Buy from the PHB. The party I am in does not have a dedicated healer, though it does have a Bard. Here are some things I am thinking about:

Multiclassing:
- Taking a level of Fighter gives armor and Con saves. I could take Resilient (Dex) to have the top two saves.
- Taking a level of Cleric gives armor and a bunch of spells, including extra cantrips (I like cantrips), and possibly a cool first level feature, but no Con save. Would I take Resilient (Dex) or Resilient (Con) in this case? Also, it requires a starting Wisdom of 13, which is rather inconvenient. Which domain would I pick?

Race:
- Deep Gnome is wizardly. I wish the extra feat was a part of the race though, and it would be best for an Abjurer, but is cool either way. Also, a small gnome could hide easily behind a Minor Illusion or maybe a Minor Conjuration. Also, they have advantage on Wisdom saves.
- Assimar has ability increases that do not match wizards at all, but they can fly some a third level and are overall cool.
- High Elf is wizardly as well.

Wizard subclass:
- Divination has Portent, which is neat, but otherwise seems kind of dull.
- Abjuration is tough, but unexciting. The capstone overlaps somewhat with a Deep Gnome's save advantages.
- Illusion sounds cool, but very DM-dependent and in need of creativity. Illusory Reality is awesome, but not being able to deal damage creates a major gray area.
- Conjuration sounds fun, but Wizards seem to lack most of the decent Conjuration spells.
- Lore Master is pretty cool, though Alchemical Casting seems a bit weird: I don't know that I would want to sacrifice spells slots for those things.
- Theurgy gives lots of options, but then Cleric domains have to be chosen. Which would be the best? I don't want to be a healbot. I like Spirit Guardians and some other Cleric spells, and it could thematically fit with being an Assimar. I don't want to be in melee or using weapons unless absolutely necessary, so all the benefits to those are not to my liking. Also, our campaign is largely underground.

Feats I've considered:
- Reslient (Dex) or Resilient (Con)
- Warcaster
- Lucky
- Deep Gnome's magic feat
- Keen Mind
- Medium Armor Master

Any feedback would be appreciated. If you ask me questions, I will answer them.

What do you think would be a fun build to play
Honestly, since having UA allowed is not that often, I'd say take the chance to play those empowered Wizards. ;) AFB but if Theurgy allows you to get the Channel Divinity, then Tempest by all means. Otherwise Nature Cleric to get Heavy Armor, Shillelagh and Thorns Whip (which would boot of INT I suppose) would be pretty neat imo.
Cannot say about Lore Master since AFB (and no time to go look for now).

[Sans.]

My first and favourite character concept is an Eladrin Knowledge Cleric 1/Divination Wizard X. It fits *really* well.

Most people agree that Resilient(Con) or Warcaster is fantastic for a Wizard, and Lucky is *always* good. Alert is nice for laying down a big spell at the start of combat before the Fighter gets in the way or you get grappled. The svirvmrklj;kfjdsaflblen feat is pretty awesome, and even better for Abjurers. Note: if you multiclass Cleric, Warcaster is vital so you can cast while holding the shield with your divine symbol on (copypasted from one of the guides)

[rigolgm]

Note: if you multiclass Cleric, Warcaster is vital so you can cast while holding the shield with your divine symbol on (copypasted from one of the guides)

That's not true unless your cleric-wizard also wants to be hitting things with a weapon a lot - which seems unlikely unless most of his/her levels are in cleric.

Even without Warcaster you can hold a shield and cast spells normally. The rules are clear that one free hand can handle the arcane focus (and material components) as well as somatic components all at the same time, leaving the other hand free to hold a shield.

So you'd have your wizard arcane focus in your hand and your cleric arcane focus on your shield.

[Citan]

That's not true unless your cleric-wizard also wants to be hitting things with a weapon a lot - which seems unliekly unless most of his/her levels are in cleric.

Even without Warcaster you can hold a shield and cast spells normally. The rules are clear that one free hand can handle the arcane focus (and material components) as well as somatic components all at the same time, leaving the other hand free to hold a shield.

So you'd have your wizard arcane focus in your hand and your cleric arcane focus on your shield.
Seconded.
Also, unless you specifically want to go the weapon cantrips way (and I see really no reason to do so except Bladesinger, and even then honestly, because with a Cleric/Wizard multiclass means MADness so hard to keep also DEX or STR), it's very fine to just go with cantrips: either go Wizard way (Shocking Grasp and Lightning Lure are great for melee, and you have a large array of ranged) or Cleric (much more limited unless Nature Domain: Shillelagh, Thorns Whip are both nice options to pair with Sacred Flame).

So you coud have a components pouch, shield in off-hand, other hand free, and you are set.

[TheUser]

I loved necromancer.
Even the level 2 bonus healing really adds up with the right spells (doing damage to a creature on the beginning of its turn triggers the effect many times in one round if a spell starts doling out killing blows).

What people always gloss over for Abjurer is the requirement to spend your reaction on the ward instead of a potential shield spell. Necromancer healing is done without spending additional actions.

If you hit level 6 the necromancer becomes the most overpowered class bar none. Able to summon your own personal army.

Not many people calitalize on the fact that animated skeletons and zombies can be equipped with weapons/armor! Zombies in chainmail for instance, are a huge nuisance (+8 AC anyone?).

Combined with natural poison immunity cloudkill and stinking cloud have some great synergy (to name a few). But each undead adds your proficiency bonus to damage and you animate +1 corpses with any cast. They also add your level to their HP and get rather beefy.

Just my two cents...my RL DM has banned necromancers after I got my hands on one (it took 2 sessions).
Edit: banned not banged

[Decstarr]

Rock gnome wizard 17, then MC into sorcerer for last 3 since Wizard capstone is garbage anyways and you can benefit hugely from metamagic. I've always thought that if you go for a rock gnome, you have to go Illusion magic and if you are creative and your DM is on board, I think it's the most fun potential.

You might want to check out Treantmonk's amazing wizard guide (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?450158-Treantmonk-s-Guide-to-Wizards-5e) since it offers a lot of insight and is very well written.

[Hooligan]

You might want to check out Treantmonk's amazing wizard guide (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?450158-Treantmonk-s-Guide-to-Wizards-5e) since it offers a lot of insight and is very well written.

Seconded. It is an excellent guide

[robbie374]

Yes, I have read that guide, and it is excellent. It does lack comment on UA options, however, about which I would love to hear people's opinions.

Arcane Ward basically gives you d10 hit dice rather than d6.

[rudy]

One of my favorite characters of all time was one who I played recently. A gnome Cleric 1 / Wizard X.

When considering Cleric v. Fighter for first level, note that Cleric is not as tough, but gives you full spellcasting progression in terms of slots. So you'll usually have an extra one of your highest level slot, as compared to if you went with Fighter. You'll also have a lot of extra utility magic (and you're right, cantrips are amazing), and the incredibly action-efficient "Healing Word", which should never be underestimated.

Here's What I did:
Stat Buy: Str 9, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 13, Cha 8
Racial: Str 9, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 8
First ASI: Str 9, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 8
Second ASI: Str 9, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 20, Wis 14, Cha 8

(For your first ASI, could also leave Wis at 13 and bump Con to 15, leaving room for Resilient (Con) at 3rd ASI.)

Went with Knowledge Domain Cleric and Lore Master Wizard; there's a bit of redundancy, but I ended up having double proficiency bonus in all knowledges, which was pretty cool. May be less useful depending on your campaign, so there are lots of other archetypes to consider.


Another Build I've considered is:

Hill Dwarf
Cleric 1 / Wizard X
Str 8, Dex 8, Con 17, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 8

Pick a cleric specialty with Heavy Armor; because you are a dwarf, you don't need the strength in this case.
First ASI: Str 8, Dex 8, Con 18, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 8. Huge hp, in spite of being a wizard. Next 2 ASIs to INT, obviously.

(You could also drop Con by 1 if you want Str or Dex to be a bit less dumped; leaving it open to Resilient (Con) at a later point, if there is any chance you will get to high levels)

[sir_argo]

Taking a level of Fighter gives armor and Con saves.

I haven't played a Fighter in 5e yet, so forgive me if I'm missing it, but how you get CON saves out of dipping into Fighter? No class listed on PHB p.164 gains any saving throw proficiencies when taken as a 2nd class.

[rudy]

I haven't played a Fighter in 5e yet, so forgive me if I'm missing it, but how you get CON saves out of dipping into Fighter? No class listed on PHB p.164 gains any saving throw proficiencies when taken as a 2nd class.
You would *start* as a Fighter.

[rudy]

- Lore Master is pretty cool, though Alchemical Casting seems a bit weird: I don't know that I would want to sacrifice spells slots for those things.

Where Lore Master actually shines is in the ability to convert the damage type of any spell of 1st level or higher for free, at will. It's absurd, and I would never allow it as a GM. My GM did, though! Seriously, every fireball can be a radiant damage fireball, for example.

[sir_argo]

You would *start* as a Fighter.

Ah... so he would lose the INT and WIS saves since he doesn't start as wizard. Got it.

[robbie374]

Ah... so he would lose the INT and WIS saves since he doesn't start as wizard. Got it.

Right, which raises the question: Which saves are the most important?

I've seen one listing that shows that, in order of how common they are, the saves are Con/Dex/Wis/Str/Cha/Int. However, it could be that a less frequent save has more devastating effects. Choosing between these starting options--Fighter (Con/Str), Cleric (Wis/Cha), or Wizard (Wis/Int)--and knowing that you could take Resilient of Con or Dex or Wis--but only one of them--later, which would be the best combination for a caster avoiding melee?

I would presume that such a PC would be more likely hit by magical effects and attacks at range.

[Naanomi]

Where Lore Master actually shines is in the ability to convert the damage type of any spell of 1st level or higher for free, at will. It's absurd, and I would never allow it as a GM. My GM did, though! Seriously, every fireball can be a radiant damage fireball, for example.
Actually in my opinion damage type shift isn't nearly as abusive as 'change the save to whatever this monster is weak against' action

EDIT: oh and gaining access to Con saves is 90% about maintaining Concentration, not the other saves in may help

[RulesJD]

Lore Wizard - Do NOT play this. It is simply way, way too powerful in 5e. The changing damage types at-will is too strong, and the changing Save Type (aka changing everything to a Charisma/Int save) is just completely broken.

For Wizard, I recommend trying out Theurge (in which case you can probably just go straight Wizard) or Abjuration. Theurge helps shore up the low healing while also significantly broadening your already massive spelllist. Yes Abjuration seems boring, but it's thematic as hell, super helpful to the party (eating a hit with your Ward on an ally that would otherwise be knocked unconscious, etc), and by far the strongest (consistent) Wizard throughout the levels.

In terms of Cleric vs. Fighter, it entirely depends on whether you plan on taking 1 or 2 MC levels.

1 Level = Life Cleric

2 Levels = Fighter

Simply put, Cleric wins because Guidance cantrip (adds to the bajillion ability checks an Abjuration Wizard and also adds to Initiative. High Initiative Wizard = fights over before it begins), maintaining of spell slot progression, Healing Word (best healing spell in the game), Sacred Flame (Radiant is only damage type Wizards don't get a lot of so helpful to have in certain campaigns). It also gives Heavy Armor and shields (AC 20 without trying) so you can largely ignore Dex. Plus it's just fun.

Life Cleric because heavy armor + the additional free passive (nor it's Channel Divinity if you want to take another level of Cleric) isn't dependent on your likely low Wisdom score.

2 Levels = Fighter because Action Surge. That's it, literally. AS is so strong it literally negates everything above with Life Cleric. The combos you can pull off are pretty ridiculous in a spellcasting world balanced around 1 Action spell/turn.

[rudy]

I don't find the save-change of the Lore Master as problematic, honestly, since it is only 1/short rest.

[Naanomi]

I don't find the save-change of the Lore Master as problematic, honestly, since it is only 1/short rest.
It is as strong or stronger than Portent for making people fail saves, which is already largely regarded as one of the strongest abilities a wizard can get for that purpose... recharges on short rest as well not long-rest

[rigolgm]

One of my favorite characters of all time was one who I played recently. A gnome Cleric 1 / Wizard X.

That's exactly what I'm playing. Walking around with AC18 (Dex 14, breastplate, shield) and tons of Skills (Knowledge Cleric) and Cantrips is great. It works brilliantly to armour-up a School of Enchantment Wizard (who often need to get in close).

It's just a bit painful being stuck with Level 1 spells for ages. And even that 1-Level dip into multiclass means you'll forever be spending almost a quarter of adventures a whole stat-improvement behind other players.

[robbie374]

Thank you for all your input!

I have decided to be a Deep Gnome Cleric 1-2 / Lore Wizard X. The only thing I'm lacking is my divine domain decision.

a) What do you think would be the best option for a one level dip?
b) Would it be worth it to take Tempest for a two level dip to get the maxed lightning and thunder Channel Divinity?

These are the options I'm considering:
- Arcana (1):
- - 2 cantrips, Arcana proficiency
- Forge (1):
- - heavy armor (in case I find something that doesn't require strength)
- - +1 AC if I don't find magical armor, not so good in higher levels
- Knowledge (1):
- - 2 languages, woo.
- - 2 Int skills (yay!) with expertise? (expertise overlaps Lore Master. boo.)
- Tempest (1):
- - martial weapons (I'm avoiding non-magical combat, however)
- - heavy armor (in case I find something that doesn't require strength)
- - Wrath of the Storm (reaction attack, would fight for reaction spot with Shield, et al)
+ Tempest (2):
- - maxed lightning and thunder with Channel Divinity:Destructive Wrath (combos amazingly with Lore Master)
- - costs final ASI, and which level do you take it? Not up front, for sure.

All have decent domain spells.

What do you think?

[rudy]

Two level cleric dip: no, under no circumstance. There is nothing from a second level of cleric that could justify an additional delay of wizard.

Arcana: No. The reason to take Arcana domain is if you're *not* going to be a wizard, but want to use cantrips offensively. Frankly, you'll have enough cantrips between Cleric and Wizard, and I LOVE cantrips. Also note that those extra cantrips would use your wisdom, not your intelligence, so you wouldn't want to choose attack cantrips anyway.

Forge: Nah. Don't choose domains based on what you *might* find. (EDIT: Upon a second look, a +1 AC, or a +1 weapon to an ally, isn't a *bad* choice, especially early on. Note that it will eventually obsolete).

Knowledge: Overlap isn't great, but will allow you to get ALL knowledges with expertise, and two other skills.

Tempest: No. You're a gnome, not a melee combatant.

Life is not a bad choice, given the solid domain spell picks, and the extra +3 healing for your healing word and cure wounds will be helpful early on.

If you expect to have a sneaky scout in the party, Trickery's 1st level ability is not to be underestimated.

[Finger6842]

Human Warrior 3 / Lore Wizard with Transmuter arcane tradition,
Human gives 1 to every stat providing improved saves and skill checks in most categories.

Start with Wizard for Int and Wis saves.
Lore has spell pumping and at 14th level access to every spell list.
Transmuter stones are very powerful, providing con proficiency, darkvision, movement speed or resistance at 6th level and at 14th level cost free res among other things. plus my wizard sold youthfulness spells to nobles everywhere while earning the adoration of many influential people. You can't get enough street cred.

Warrior provides heavy armor, shield, second wind, action surge, fighting style (archery or defense) Longbow for super long range and preserving spell slots without tanking plus you still have 9th level spell access should you ever get that far. Sword and Board stacks with the shield spell for truly awesome AC spikes.

Alternately you could go Warforged. The benefits are out of this world and the RP would be very interesting. No damage from some cloud attacks, +1 AC, immunity to disease which would seem to be the basis for the Necromancy or Nature spell lines. No Int bonus but this was the RP option.


Warforged Traits
Literally built for the job.
Ability Score Increase. Your Strength and Constitution scores each increase by 1.
Age. Warforged are created as adults; they have no childhood or adolescence. It is theorized that warforged may show signs of physical deterioration after about 150 years, but have no further aging effects after that point and no maximum age.
Alignment. Warforged tend toward lawful alignments, as they were constructed to be soldiers.
Size. Warforged are generally broader and heavier than humans. Your size is Medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Living Construct. Even though you were constructed, you are a living creature. You are immune to disease. You do not need to eat or breathe, but you can ingest food and drink if you wish.
* * Instead of sleeping, you enter an inactive state for 4 hours each day. You do not dream in this state; you are fully aware of your surroundings and notice approaching enemies and other events as normal.
Composite Plating. Your construction incorporates wood and metal, granting you a +1 bonus to Armor Class.
Languages. You can speak, read and write Common and one other language of your choice

[djreynolds]

Thank you for all your input!

I have decided to be a Deep Gnome Cleric 1-2 / Lore Wizard X. The only thing I'm lacking is my divine domain decision.

a) What do you think would be the best option for a one level dip?
b) Would it be worth it to take Tempest for a two level dip to get the maxed lightning and thunder Channel Divinity?

These are the options I'm considering:
- Arcana (1):
- - 2 cantrips, Arcana proficiency
- Forge (1):
- - heavy armor (in case I find something that doesn't require strength)
- - +1 AC if I don't find magical armor, not so good in higher levels
- Knowledge (1):
- - 2 languages, woo.
- - 2 Int skills (yay!) with expertise? (expertise overlaps Lore Master. boo.)
- Tempest (1):
- - martial weapons (I'm avoiding non-magical combat, however)
- - heavy armor (in case I find something that doesn't require strength)
- - Wrath of the Storm (reaction attack, would fight for reaction spot with Shield, et al)
+ Tempest (2):
- - maxed lightning and thunder with Channel Divinity:Destructive Wrath (combos amazingly with Lore Master)
- - costs final ASI, and which level do you take it? Not up front, for sure.

All have decent domain spells.

What do you think?

Cleric, for heavy armor proficiency sake, can be grabbed at any time unlike fighter.

IMO, constitution and wisdom will take you out of the fight.

Dex is huge but stuff like absorb elements can help this.

Heavy armor requires a 15 in strength.... that's huge but not necessarily unobtainable at creation.

But max dex and mage armor is AC 18.... the same as chainmail and shield... with +5 to your dex save

IMO, I think 2 levels of rogue for cunning action is too good. Freely disengaging can be a life saver if you are cornered and for some reason misty step is not an option... like running low on spells