Automatic Bonus Progression Rules Question

[Kami2awa]

Pathfinder rules query:

Does the enhancement bonus granted to attuned weapons mean that the weapons count as magical i.e. can they, for example, harm incorporeal enemies?

[Crake]

Nothing indicates that attunement makes an item magical, so no.

Are any of the bonuses considered magical? And if not, does that mean they all persist in antimagic fields and the like?

[Caelestion]

Pathfinder rules query:

Does the enhancement bonus granted to attuned weapons mean that the weapons count as magical i.e. can they, for example, harm incorporeal enemies?

That's pretty obviously what is intended, even though it doesn't specifically call that out.

[Psyren]

Per a designer post (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tkyx?Automatic-Bonus-Progression-Bracers-of-Armor#4), attuning regular clothing makes it count as magic armor, so I would see no reason that attuning regular weapons does not do the same by RAI.

[Psyren]

Fair enough. Sounds like someone at Paizo needs to update the texts in their rules, then.

I mean, I guess that would be nice to do, but I think the vast majority of us figured out that "attuning" is a magical process and therefore makes something magic. Especially since the rules for doing so are in the "Magic" chapter.

I'm not opposed to errata here but I think there are much more pressing FAQs at the head of the line.

[Kami2awa]

OK, the interpretation seems to be that it is magical :) this will hopefully prevent my PCs being slaughtered by the first low-CR incorporeal enemy I throw at them.

[Florian]

ABP is a bit tricky as it´s more a stub than a fully flashed-out rules system. I did some test runs with it and came to the conclusion that no, you can´t circumvent using an actual magic weapon as you´ll run into problems with beating DR and regeneration. You will still need +1 ghost touch, +1 fire/acid or silver/holy, and so on. What it does is upgrading specific weapons and making them more interesting in play.

[Psyren]

Actually, in a low magic campaign (which is where ABP should be used) I would expect players to actually be buying silver arrows, acid flasks and alchemist's fire. Remember that in PF, to beat regeneration you only need one source of the required amount of damage to turn regen off for that creature for a round - even a lowly torch can let your party chop that troll to bits without it coming back.

And once their attunement gets high enough, they can beat DR/silver and DR/cold iron just using the enhancement bonus like they do now, and have plenty of sources of fire and acid damage if alchemical items are too much trouble (though they shouldn't be.)

[EldritchWeaver]

Actually, in a low magic campaign (which is where ABP should be used)...

Why is using it in a high-magic campaign a problem? What needs to be changed to make it viable?

[Psyren]

Why is using it in a high-magic campaign a problem? What needs to be changed to make it viable?

I'm confused - the whole point of the variant is to make magic items rare (or even nonexistent, though I find this doesn't work nearly as well) without completely ruining the game's math. Why would a high-magic campaign care about availability of items?

[Florian]

Let´s rephrase that: The point is removing purely functional items, thereby reducing the "x-mass tree" and leaving room for thematic items.

A problem now is, that with the strict progression, you´ve got to adapt what monsters and when and can´t simply counter some thing with handing out items.

[Psyren]

I'm still not sure you need to though. You don't actually need ghost touch in PF for instance; without it your attuned weapons do half damage, but you'll still kill whatever it is if you just hit hard or often enough. For DR, enhancement bonuses by themselves beat all of it except epic. And alchemical items beat regen.