Different ways to generate ability scores.

[Jthw]

I've noticed many groups have very different and unique ways to generate ability scores for characters. If you have any interesting ones feel welcome to post them here.

One of my groups had the idea of making what we call rolling matrix. What we do is every player rolls 3d6 best 3 reroll 1s once 6 times. Then all of those numbers are thrown into a grid (or just in a list is fine) and then we go around the group, each player picking one at a time. There are a couple things that I really like about this. For one it gets the party to work together before characters are even made. It also makes the stats (usually) more averaged around the party. We also have done a few variants to this such as the first set rolled is locked into being Strength, the second being Dex, etc.

One of the weirder ways I've heard of is 1d16+2 (re rolling garbage stats.) Which seems it would be really interesting to try.

Anyone heard of/done any interesting ways to generate stats?

[Beheld]

The best way that I've seen, if you actually want to roll, is:

1) Each of the 3-7 people rolls whatever (4d6b3 6 times or 5d6b3, or whatever you want like that).
2) Each of the 3-7 people looks at everyone's sets of rolls, and can use any of them.

So this way no one is better because they rolled better, and people usually have the type of option the want, as far as number of high stat priorities. But you still get the real sense that you, the group of people who are going to work together, rolled the actual results you are using, and you actually do have the random results from rolling which I agree is worth something, though not enough for me to use it.

[Jopustopin]

We do the same thing as a group, except the group as a whole decides who gets what ability scores. Builds camaraderie. My group understands the tier system so they give the tier 1 class one high attribute (and the wizard is fine with that) and the MAD swordsage gets several high stats.

[Gildedragon]

The best way that I've seen, if you actually want to roll, is:

1) Each of the 3-7 people rolls whatever (4d6b3 6 times or 5d6b3, or whatever you want like that).
2) Each of the 3-7 people looks at everyone's sets of rolls, and can use any of them.

So this way no one is better because they rolled better, and people usually have the type of option the want, as far as number of high stat priorities. But you still get the real sense that you, the group of people who are going to work together, rolled the actual results you are using, and you actually do have the random results from rolling which I agree is worth something, though not enough for me to use it.

+1 to this. The roll pool is fair but still generates a variety of results.
I like having at least 6 sets as base. So as DM I roll 3 beforehand

[Beheld]

We do the same thing as a group, except the group as a whole decides who gets what ability scores. Builds camaraderie. My group understands the tier system so they give the tier 1 class one high attribute (and the wizard is fine with that) and the MAD swordsage gets several high stats.

No, the system I describe, nothing stops all 5 players or whatever from choosing the exact same roll. Because no one should be better because they rolled higher.

Also: [generic statement about the Tier system is garbage and doesn't help explain things, and also is especially bad as a metric for distributing stats]

[Bohandas]

Roll 3d6 for each ability score in order, then increase by point buy

[rrwoods]

I usually just do 32 pb. Let players play the characters they want.

One thing I've thought of trying but haven't ever actually tried is, roll 4d6 drop lowest 5 times, then for the sixth "roll" you get whatever makes 32 points. Need to figure out how to count scores under 8, and what to do about situations where you can make 31 or 33 but not 32. But it gives the random feel of rolling while still not having disparate power levels from random stats.

[Nifft]

3d6 in order.

Write down all player names + scores rolled.

You can have your own scores, or anyone else's scores -- but if you pick someone else's scores, they're shifted left or right based on your relative positions in the list.

Even if everyone picks the same scores -- which is possible, for example if one person rolls much better than everyone else -- but if you have fewer than 7 players, everyone will get those scores in a different order.

[Crake]

A long time I rolled 4d6 drop lowest, 6 times, then added the point buy of the resultant array, which came out to 35 point buy. I've been using 35 point buy ever since. Except when I'm running e6, then I use the recommended 32 point buy.

[digiman619]

In my Pathfinder games, I have players roll 4d6, best 3 7 times. They then keep 6 of their choice, and if that doesn't give something they can work with, they have a 25 point buy as a safety net.

[lylsyly]

In the main group I play with we roll 1d8+10, arrange to suit, then +/- Racial bonuses.

Makes for good characters :smallbiggrin:

The other group I am in the dm gives us 36 points with standard point buy rules.

[xkroku]

Each player rolls four sets of 4d6 drop lowest, then he chooses the best set and can substitute one score with any other. Then we do the roll pool.

Once in a higher powered game we did 4d8 drop lowest, was fun too

[Gildedragon]

I once played at a game where it was roll 1d20 six times, reroll anything under 3

[Jormengand]

I usually prefer 32 point buy in 3.5 or 25 point buy in PF, but really? Any method which doesn't involve randomly determining how screwed over your character is before they've even been born works for me.

[ViperMagnum357]

Most games we just used 4d6 drop lowest, arrange as you want. Eventually, that mutated into 7 rolls total, drop the lowest, then six rolls, drop the lowest and replace with an 18, arrange as desired. Simple, usually creates characters with above average rolls, and the 18 generally silences any complaints from players with casters.

[tedcahill2]

I haven't actually played this way yet, but in my next game I plan to do to 6+2d4 to generate ability scores. Everyone would start out a bit more average, but I would be giving additional ability points every 2 levels instead of every 4 (maximum ability unmodified by race would be 18).

[ngilop]

In my Pathfinder games, I have players roll 4d6, best 3 7 times. They then keep 6 of their choice, and if that doesn't give something they can work with, they have a 25 point buy as a safety net.

This is exactly what I have been doing since AD&D, well minus the point buy of course.

It gives the players a better than average score and makes up (mentally that is, not actually) for the possibility that they might get a 5 on one of their stat rolls.


I once played with a DM ( early on in 3rd ed) that did a weird 2d6+1d4+2 roll.. so you tended to have scores in the 12-14 range, 'a cut above the average joe schmoe' as he would say.


In AD&D I played a long campaign where the DM did 3d4+6, kind his own spin on the roll Xd6 and add to a base of 8.

[johnbragg]

If you want to be a big softy, and speed up chargen a bit, you can use my "Heroic Array." 18 16 14 12 10 8.

[martixy]

My group's been doing 3(4d6b3)b1 for ages.

We like rolling dice. Worked out marvellously.

[Elkad]

I've used everything. Grids, dice, PB, 3d6 in order, whatever.
Sometimes I give them options, like a choice of 32pb or straight 14s (which is 36 points, but fun for MAD characters).

I should break out the 9d6b3, 8d6b3, 7d6b3, 6d6b3, 5d6b3, 4d6b3 method from Unearthed Arcana again (you assign each roll to a stat before you roll).

Since everything T1 is pretty much SAD, the more you restrict points, the more they gravitate towards T1.

[lylsyly]

If you want to be a big softy, and speed up chargen a bit, you can use my "Heroic Array." 18 16 14 12 10 8.

👍 I do this for NPCs sometimes, 'cept I have been calling the Super Elite Array. 🥇

I remember a group in Korea (80s), dm said 5d4, hmm, okay, got hot when I rolled two perfect 20s for the character, lol.

[Jormengand]

I would also point out that I hate "Punish SAD characters" mechanics - which I see a lot - too. Truenamer called: just because you only need one ability score (charisma doesn't count; none of your good utterances have saves) doesn't mean you're T1 or even good.

[lylsyly]

thats the biggest reason we use 10+1d8. lets you be mad, or helps the sad guys be a bit more survivable at first.
at least thats how we see it.

ymmv

[Elkad]

I would also point out that I hate "Punish SAD characters" mechanics - which I see a lot - too. Truenamer called: just because you only need one ability score (charisma doesn't count; none of your good utterances have saves) doesn't mean you're T1 or even good.

It isn't a need to punish SAD characters. It's letting players feel they can play something that isn't SAD without being gimp.

A 20pt buy Wizard still gets an 18 in his primary stat. The rest doesn't really matter to his power level. Oh sure, he has to be a bit more careful about positioning and defense because he's low on AC and Hitpoints, but all his core features work just fine.

But a 20pt Paladin is crippling himself multiple ways. He needs 5 good stats. 30 points I consider a bare minimum (14,12,14,10,14,14 or thereabouts), and 40 isn't too many.

Divide characters into 2 types. Primary casters who get 7th level spells and higher (including via PRCs like Sublime Chord, so you have to pick a path at birth on your bard), and everyone else.
Primary casters get 20 point buy (18,10,10,8,8,8)
Everyone else gets 96pt buy (straight 18s).
The tier ratings won't change enough to matter. Nobody who wasn't T2 already will make it to T2 on stats alone. It just closes the gap somewhat.

And mechanics aside, I get mighty tired of playing melee types that are dumb, foolish, unlikeable, or all 3. And they get a choice of graceful or strong, but not both.

Edit: Now there's an idea. Everyone starts with high point buy, but magic weakens your mortal form. Every time you gain access to a new level of spells, you have to give up pointbuy points equal to the new spell level. So by the time you got to 9ths, you would have given up 45 stat points. A class with 4ths would give up 10pts.
I'm sure there are some edge cases it breaks. I honestly have no idea how Truenamer works, I've never even read it.

[lylsyly]

That is an interesting concept. +1

I do believe I will try that the next time I reboot the campaign that I dm.

Thanks for the idea.

[Jormengand]

It isn't a need to punish SAD characters. It's letting players feel they can play something that isn't SAD without being gimp.

A 20pt buy Wizard still gets an 18 in his primary stat. The rest doesn't really matter to his power level. Oh sure, he has to be a bit more careful about positioning and defense because he's low on AC and Hitpoints, but all his core features work just fine.

But a 20pt Paladin is crippling himself multiple ways. He needs 5 good stats. 30 points I consider a bare minimum (14,12,14,10,14,14 or thereabouts), and 40 isn't too many.

I mean it's just as well I never said anything about 20 point buy.


Divide characters into 2 types. Primary casters who get 7th level spells and higher (including via PRCs like Sublime Chord, so you have to pick a path at birth on your bard), and everyone else.
Primary casters get 20 point buy (18,10,10,8,8,8)
Everyone else gets 96pt buy (straight 18s).
The tier ratings won't change enough to matter. Nobody who wasn't T2 already will make it to T2 on stats alone. It just closes the gap somewhat.

Psion and healer called. Assuming that by spells you include psionics and maneuvers, you still most likely run into problems.


And mechanics aside, I get mighty tired of playing melee types that are dumb, foolish, unlikeable, or all 3. And they get a choice of graceful or strong, but not both.

Edit: Now there's an idea. Everyone starts with high point buy, but magic weakens your mortal form. Every time you gain access to a new level of spells, you have to give up pointbuy points equal to the new spell level. So by the time you got to 9ths, you would have given up 45 stat points. A class with 4ths would give up 10pts.
I'm sure there are some edge cases it breaks. I honestly have no idea how Truenamer works, I've never even read it.

Healer is crying in a corner. Paladin is mildly miffed. Savant is also somewhat miffed, especially if the new spell level counts separately for each type of casting. Mystic theurge has disappeared out of the nearest window if the new spell level counts separately each time. Truenamer is praying that utterances don't count as spells. So there are a few, uhm, edge cases.

Mainly you need to be a lot clearer about how this is meant to work because it doesn't really fix what you want it to fix.

[Jopustopin]

No, the system I describe, nothing stops all 5 players or whatever from choosing the exact same roll. Because no one should be better because they rolled higher.

Also: [generic statement about the Tier system is garbage and doesn't help explain things, and also is especially bad as a metric for distributing stats]

I was responding to OP.

[Elkad]

Edit: Now there's an idea. Everyone starts with high point buy, but magic weakens your mortal form. Every time you gain access to a new level of spells, you have to give up pointbuy points equal to the new spell level. So by the time you got to 9ths, you would have given up 45 stat points. A class with 4ths would give up 10pts.
I'm sure there are some edge cases it breaks. I honestly have no idea how Truenamer works, I've never even read it.


Psion and healer called. Assuming that by spells you include psionics and maneuvers, you still most likely run into problems.

Healer is crying in a corner. Paladin is mildly miffed. Savant is also somewhat miffed, especially if the new spell level counts separately for each type of casting. Mystic theurge has disappeared out of the nearest window if the new spell level counts separately each time. Truenamer is praying that utterances don't count as spells. So there are a few, uhm, edge cases.

Mainly you need to be a lot clearer about how this is meant to work because it doesn't really fix what you want it to fix.

Yup, it would need fleshing out. And playtesting. And yes I meant psionics as well.
It's a wild-blue idea.

ToB penalty? Maybe not, maybe half?
Classes that just get spells mashed together from a couple lists (Savant) should count once.
PRCs with dual progression (Mystic Theurge) maybe pay once, maybe half price for the second line, depending what you allow in the way of early entry shenanigans.
Healer is an odd one. It plays at T4-ish most of it's career, then jumps straight to T2 on Gate alone. It basically has to be rebuilt.

Wizards could live dangerously by dumping con like mad as long as possible, and then going for Con=null by becoming undead, but I'm not sure that's actually a problem (assuming the party starts at L1ish), because they'd die. A lot.
I'm envisioning a world where the most powerful casters can still destroy everything, but they lack the strength to get out of bed without magic, or falling down a flight of stairs unbuffed is lethal, or a mental stat is so low they are effectively insane.

[SirNibbles]

For this method you will need the following equipment:
-5 six-sided dice
-6 tokens per player, numbered 1-6
-3 copies of Frostburn
-2 folding ladders, 6 feet tall
-4 pool noodles, 2 of one colour and 2 of another
-4 kazoos

Assign each of your players 6 tokens, with values 1-6.
The DM now rolls 4d6h3 (in public) and a 1d6 (in secret). The 1d6 assigns the 4d6h3 to a stat, where 1 is STR and 6 is CHA. If you want stronger characters, use 5d6h3.

The players, knowing only the number- but not to which stat it is tied, must then play a token (not showing which token they are playing). The tokens are revealed when everyone has played. The highest token value buys the stat. If all but one player plays a 6, the player who played the lower value gets the stat. Conversely, if all but one player plays a 1, the player who plays the high number does not get the stat. If a player already has a value for that stat, the stat goes to the next-highest token value. The winning token is kept by the DM- the others are returned.

In the case of a two-way tie, players mount the ladders (placed 6 feet apart), straddling them at the top, and equip the pool noodles and kazoos. The kazoo is held in the mouth and the noodles are dual-wielded. The first player to either dismount his ladder or cease playing the kazoo loses. The winner gets to choose whether to keep the stat or to let the loser have it. The players may play whatever song they want, as long as they play well and do not cease playing. Only the pool noodles may be used to strike the opponent. If a player dies by falling off the ladder, his character sheet is thrown out.

In the case of a three-way tie, players stand in a triangle. Each player holds a single pool noodle between his or her legs and places a copy of Frostburn upon their head. The last one whose copy of Frostburn remains on their head is the winner. Use of hands is not allowed in any manner. Players may only make contact with other players via the pool noodles. The kazoos are not needed for this game.

In the case of a four-way tie, a series of three single-elimination ladder/kazoo duels take place. Five-way ties are resolved with each player rolling a 1d6. The lowest-rolling player is eliminated, after which the rules for 4 players apply. Six-way ties are resolved with two three-way Frostburn battles followed by a ladder/kazoo duel. Hopefully you don't have more than 6 players.

Example:

We have three players: Bill, Jill, and Will.

The first roll of 4d6h3/1d6 is 8/3, so whoever buys it will have a score of CON score of 8.

None of our three players want an 8, so they all play their 1 tokens. At this point, the fact that the stat is CON is revealed to all the players. This results in a three-way Frostburn battle. Bill smacks Jill and Will with his noodle, causing their rulebooks to fall to the ground, winning the game. He decides to let Will take the 8 CON.

The next roll of 4d6h3/1d6 is 13/5, so WIS 13.

The 13 is mildly appealing to all the players. Will plays a 2, saving for a higher number. Bill and Jill both play 3s. This forces them into a ladder/kazoo duel. Jill begins smacking Bill with her pool noodles while playing Mahler's Symphony No. 5. Bill remains silent but attacks with his noodles. For not playing, the DM disqualifies him. Bill clarifies that he was being a smartass and playing John Cage's 4'33". The DM is not convinced and awards the win to Jill, who chooses to keep the 13 WIS.

The next roll is 16/3 (CON 16).

All three players want a 16. Will figures both other players will play a 6 so he plays a 2. Unfortunately, Bill played a 5 and Jill played a 6, giving Jill the 16 CON.

The next roll is 10/5 (WIS 10).

Bill plays a 2, Will plays a 1, and Jill plays a 3. However, because Jill already has a WIS score, Bill gets the stat.

The next roll is 8/1. (STR 8)

Again, nobody wants an 8. Bill plays a 1, as does Jill. Will decides to gamble and play a 2. It pays off, so Bill and Jill fight over who is stuck with 8 STR. This time, Bill doesn't try to be a smartass. He decides to play Beethoven's Ode to Joy, thinking it will be easy even while being smacked with pool noodles. Jill puts in a performance of Poker Face, but is defeated when a sharp left noodle from Bill dislodges the kazoo from her mouth. Jill is stuck with 8 STR.

The next roll is 14/6 (CHA 14).

Will, knowing Jill has used her 6, plays a 5. Bill tries to be more conservative with a 4. Jill plays a 5. It's back to the ladders, where Will de-ladders Jill, taking the 14 CHA. Since the fall didn't kill Jill, she gets to keep her character. Will has 14 CHA.

The next roll is 15/5 (WIS 15). Will is the only one without a WIS stat, but nobody knows that the 15 is tied to Wisdom so they all want it. Will wants to save his 6 so he plays a 4. Bill and Jill both play 5s. When it is revealed that the stat is WIS, Will automatically wins with his 4.

Will has 15 WIS.

This continues until all 3 players have all 6 stats assigned.

At this point, it's a good idea to treat any wounds sustained from the preceeding combat. Start by treating the most grievous injuries, such as head wounds or broken bones, before moving on to smaller injuries. After that, treat minor cuts, sprains, and bruises. Make sure to disinfect your hands before treating any open wounds. This will help to prevent infection.

__

Jokes aside, turning character generation into a game itself (minus the somewhat violent pool noodle gladiator fights) is a fun thing to do. A system where you choose numbers but not stats also means you'll have to build your character based on that, rather than coming into a game with a pre-built character. I personally find it more interesting to play with the cards I've been dealt.

[NoAnonimo]

Jokes aside, turning character generation into a game itself (minus the somewhat violent pool noodle gladiator fights) is a fun thing to do. A system where you choose numbers but not stats also means you'll have to build your character based on that, rather than coming into a game with a pre-built character. I personally find it more interesting to play with the cards I've been dealt.


That was amazing! I will try it, sounds really fun and usefull. I see the whole buy-numbers-not-stats point, but I would suggest just a little change:
if any two players voluntarily wants to trade a single stat, they may do it, but just once. That would give them a chance to build a character similar to what they want, as well as teamplaying even before the game starts.


Example: (based on your numbres)

Will have 8 CON - 14 CHA - 15 WIS
Jill have 13 WIS - 16 CON - 8 STR
Bill have 10 WIS

Now, Will wants to play a Barbarian, so he will really likes a CON boost, but he also wants a human for the bonus feat. He ask Jill to change it, but it will be really bad for him, since he is trading a 16 for a 8. Will he accept? Maybe he wants to play a druid, but rolled 9 WIS, and ask Will to give his higest number (15 WIS) to compensate.

Some Rules:
-They may not change diferent stats (No 8CON for 11STR trade)
-They may not change more than 1 stat (No taking anyones result) (if you want, change it so they may not change more than 2 stats, as in my example before)
-They may not 3-parts-trade. Bill, Jill and Will can't make a three parts pact.

Do you like it better?