Optimizing Flameblade

[Nibbens]

Anyone have any advice on optimizing flame blad (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/flame-blade/)e for a druid? Suggestions anyone? I know there are better things to optimize out there, but I want the fluff.

Thanks!

[Serafina]

General Optimization Tip #1: Go to Archives of Nethys, hit the Search button, enter the thing you want to optimize, check through all the options.
That generally gives you a pretty good idea of the options available (though sadly it's not as up-to-date anymore), and then you just have to put it together well.

That being said, there aren't terribly many options.
The main ways to do it are the Druid Green Scourge Archetype (http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Druid%20Green%20Sc ourge), which lets you add a few special abilities to it, and the Flame Blade Dervish (http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Flame%20Blade%20Dervish) feat which lets you add Charisma to the damage and does a few other things.

And that's basically it. And it's not a very neat combination - Druids normally want Wisdom (as do Hunters and Shamans, the other two classes who get the spell), the feat wants you to have Charisma.
Then again, you don't need Strength - so basically you build your Druid with Dexterity (to hit, and remember you make touch attacks so you don't need too much), Wisdom for casting, and Charisma for damage.
At that point, it could be interesting to go with the Dawnflower Anchorite (http://archivesofnethys.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dawnflower%20 Anchorite) Prestige Class - which wants you to have Charisma anyway, has neat fluff, and can advance wild shape and domain/animal companion. By the same reasoning, you could go Variant Multiclass Bard and have bardic performance - though only one of those, since it doesn't stack.

You'll likely not wildshape much, if at all. While certain forms could wield the flame blade, it doesn't really work that well often. It's still useful for mobility, scouting and all sorts of such things.
Still, if you want to trade it out there's the Drovier (http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Druid%20Drovier) archetype for some buffs to the whole group, or the Skinshaper (http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Druid%20Skinshaper ) archetype where you instead turn into humanoids. I'd only really recommend the latter - you're already a pretty social character, this way you're a master of disguise as well.



So, a basic 11th-level build:
Human. Druid (Green Scourge, Skinshaper), VMC Bard
Strength 7, Dexterity 14 (18), Constitution 14, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 18 (22), Charisma 18
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Flame Blade Dervish, two more to taste
Pick a domain of your liking. You get it, a bonus to Knowledge (Dungeoneering), saves against aberrations, have no scent, and are immune gainst poison. You also get to turn into any humanoid you want four times a day, and have six skill ranks per level which is enough to be the partys social character. Oh, and you can Inspire Courage (+2) and Competence for 15 round per day (start as a move action), have Versatile Performance (I recommend Dance) and Bardic Knowledge.

As for your actual Flame Blade:
It's a +14/+9 attack that targets touch-AC, and does 1D8+11 damage on a hit that ignores 10 points of fire resistance. You can also make it deal frost or electricity damage (with an additional 1D6 damage). Ask your GM whether you can also add Flaming, to get the bonus damage, otherwise it's a bit silly.
You dish out average 19 damage per hit - you'll really want Haste for that third attack. It's not the most impressive damage, all things said, but there isn't really any other way to increase it as far as I can tell.

[Kurald Galain]

Get a druid who can channel. Dip one level into monk. Then take the Crusader's Flurry feat for an extra attack per round with flame blade, who cares about the penalty since you'll hit touch anyway.

[Serafina]

Get a druid who can channel. Dip one level into monk. Then take the Crusader's Flurry feat for an extra attack per round with flame blade, who cares about the penalty since you'll hit touch anyway.With that (achievable via Aquatic, Artic, and Swamp Terrain domains, ironically enough) and Haste, you could get four attacks (five at high enough BAB), which would be a respectable 76 damage per round.

Now just take a nice Monk-Archetype to optimize the dip, maybe Kata Master or Sohei.

[ATHATH]

What about Shillelagh optimization? Is it mostly the same kind of thing?

What about metamagic?

[Kurald Galain]

What about Shillelagh optimization? Is it mostly the same kind of thing?
Well, flame blade is a rather unique weapon since it attacks touch AC. All shillelagh does is turn your q'staff into an earthbreaker.

[Sol Covenant]

Does it have to be a Druid that you are optimizing for?

You could go Fey Trickster Mesmerist (which grants Druid spells) and use Painful Stare to up the damage. You could also multiclass into Magus and use a wand of Flame Blade for your spell combat.

[ATHATH]

Does it have to be a Druid that you are optimizing for?

You could go Fey Trickster Mesmerist (which grants Druid spells) and use Painful Stare to up the damage. You could also multiclass into Magus and use a wand of Flame Blade for your spell combat.
The problem with using Mesmerist, I think, is that it can't use the Green Scourge stuff to enchant its Flame Blade.

[ATHATH]

How does the/an Oaken Staff (http://archivesofnethys.com/MagicStavesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Oaken%20Staff) interact with the Shillelagh enhancements available to those with the Green Scourge archetype?

[the_archduke]

Feyspeaker Druid (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo-druid-archetypes/feyspeaker-druid-archetype/) changes your casting stat to charisma. It also lowers your BAB progression to poor, so I am not sure that it is worth it.

Can you use Dervish Dance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat/) since flame blade says "You wield this blade-like beam as if it were a scimitar."

Never mind, dervish dance replaces your strength bonus to damage with dexterity. Flame blade doesn't let you use the bonus.

[ATHATH]

The Bard Dawnflower Dervish archetype makes your Bardic Music affect only yourself, but doubles the "normal" bonuses provided by it and lets you start your performance as a Move action from the get-go. The "Bardic Music" is technically called a "Battle Dance", but anything that affects Bardic Music (except for abilities that allow your Bardic Music to grant bonuses after it has ended) affects Battle Dances as well. It also lets you pick up Dervish Dance as a bonus feat at first level (and ignore its prerequisites). If you dip Dawnflower Dervish Bard 1 and take all 10 levels of Dawnflower Anchorite (and take the ability that lets Dawnflower Anchorite levels stack with Bard levels for the purposes of Bardic Music), you can get +6 to attack and damage every round that you have Bardic Music up. That's probably not worth not giving you AND your allies +3 to attack and damage, come to think of it... But it's still pretty neat, especially if you're your group's only BSF.

[ATHATH]

The Sarenae's Mercy Divine Fighting Technique also seems like it would be quite good for this character concept, as it allows you to heal whenever you deal non-lethal damage (but only once per turn) and turn any damage that you deal from scimitiars or [Fire] spells (among other things) into nonlethal damage.

[the_archduke]

You could also multiclass into Magus and use a wand of Flame Blade for your spell combat.

Or you could go straight magus with the Eldritch Scion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo-magus-archetypes/eldritch-scion) archetype and use the wand wielder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/magus-arcana/paizo-magus-arcana/wand-wielder-su/) arcana with a wand of flame blade.

And use magic device to activate the wand. One wand lasts you 50 combats.

[the_archduke]

Re-read the OP, you want Druid...

Nature Fang (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo-druid-archetypes/nature-fang/) is probably the best archetype, but ti doesn't play nice with Green Scourge.

[ATHATH]

Druids can get access to Channeling through archetypes and such, right? If so, the Channeling Force feat might work pretty well with Flameblade, especially since Dawnflower Anchorite can advance Channeling with one of its abilities, IIRC.

If you can snag Weapon Training somehow (https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/64vd3q/weapon_training_class_feature_on_nonfighters/), Cut from the Air (and Smash from the Air) will let you deflect blaster bo- I mean, arrows- that are shot at you. You have a DEX focus anyway, so you can deflect quite a few if you pick up Combat Reflexes.

[Kurald Galain]

Or you could go straight magus with the Eldritch Scion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo-magus-archetypes/eldritch-scion) archetype and use the wand wielder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/magus-arcana/paizo-magus-arcana/wand-wielder-su/) arcana with a wand of flame blade.

That's pretty good since the flame blade is a valid target for the Magus's enchant weapon ability, which gives a better set of abilities than Green Scourge does. Plus it lets you make extra attacks (via spell combat) just like the monk does.

[Florian]

Flameblade, huh? Well, it´s a spell and eligible for Preferred Spell and Spell Perfection. Basic problem to overcome is that it still has SR: Yes, making it a risky proposal against most outsiders, so possibly Spell Penetration and Piercing Spell (mm). Heighten Spell (mm) and rider feats like Dazing Spell (mm) should also work fine and be a good upgrade.
On the passive side, one of the Goblin racial feats and the Vile Domain (Fire) traits could help by boosting CL by +2.

[Serafina]

Right, it's also worth considering just using a class other than Druid.
Green Scourge is nice, but it's main function is to use Frost or Shocking for additional damage (though again, ask your GM if you can just use Flaming too) and more importantly to bypass fire resistance and immunity.

Of course, you can already do the latter via the Lightning-subdomain, which has a electrity-based Flame Blade. That should make it very easy to ask for some custom versions of the spell, and if you build your character around it you might as well learn multiple versions of it.

Hunters and Shamans are the only other two classes that get flame blade natively. Shamans have a nice use for Charisma anyway, so that might be worth considering.

But there's also a bunch of ways to add it to your spell list.
Being a Samsaran works as usual, opening it up for every spellcasting class, though the stats aren't ideal for most.
The Enlightened Bloodrager (http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Bloodrager%20Enlig htened%20Bloodrager) gets Druid-spells, and is a full-BAB class and Charisma-based.
The Voice of the Wild (http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Bard%20Voice%20of% 20the%20Wild) Bard gets Druid-spells too, and is likewise Charisma-based.
The Fey Tricksters (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/mesmerist/archetypes/paizo-llc-mesmerist-archetypes/fey-trickster-mesmerist-archetype/) Mesmerist was already mentioned, and is both Charisma-based and gets a bunch of other nice melee-features.
A high-level (19th) Magus Magic Warrior gets Druid-spells to their list, but that's really too late to play a character around.
A Skald with Spell Kenning can use Runes of the Old Faith to cast Flame Blade once per day, which is again not really enough to build a whole character around but it's there.
Any prepared arcane caster Class can use the Magaambyan Arcanist (http://archivesofnethys.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Magaambyan%20 Arcanist) prestige class to add Druid-spells to their list, but of course none of those classes is particularly good in melee anyway.
Clerics, and other classes who can take domains, can get it via the Lightning-subdomain.
Paladins of Serenrae (http://archivesofnethys.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Sarenrae) can cast Flame Blade too.

So really, the good options boil down to these options:
Green Scourge Druid:
You get full spellcasting, but it's off Wisdom. You get Wildshape, which is still usefulf or elemental forms, or can swap that out for humanoid forms. You get to enhance your Flameblade, adding a bit of damage and bypassing resistances and immunities.
Paladin of Serenrae:
You get to be a Paladin who bases their damage off Charisma. Enjoy sky-high saves, lots of healing, and good spellcasting (for a Paladin). You can also use your Divine Bond to enhance your flame blade - though make sure the GM doesn't treat the spell duration ending as the flame blade being destroyed, that'd be both bad and a bit silly. Oh, and you have full BAB and Paladin buffs.
Fey Trickster Mesmerist:
A good amount of skills, Charisma-based casting, lots of tricky spells, Painful Stare to enhance your damage, and mesmerist tricks. Lots of tricks to make sure you can do more than just stand in melee and hit things.

[Florian]

As a weird side note: Goblin Alchemist (Fire Bomber) might win the race for "optimize Flameblade".
Get a potion, use Enhance Potion and Eternal Potion and go from there. High level, but so what?

[Kurald Galain]

It's ok not to have full BAB, you'll be hitting touch AC anyway. In fact, since you cannot use Power Attack on a flame blade, having full BAB has little value to a flame blade build.