Removing Divine/Arcane Labels

[tedcahill2]

Would there be anything significant to consider if I removed the arcane/divine labels?

There were just spells, and any spell casting class could take spells from any source, so the only differentiator between classes would be the non-spell casting features and the various spells per day and spell acquisition types.

[johnbragg]

1. This drastically increases the already-problematic power of the Tier 1 classes--Wizard, Cleric, Druid. Druid maybe less so (there aren't as many thematically appropriate arcane spells to snatch). But the Cleric now wakes up in the morning able to cast any spell in the book of his spell level.

2. Sorcerer and other spontaneous casters aren't as boosted, at least individually--for every healing spell the sorcerer picks up, she's dropping an arcane spell. Increases the power of the class as a whole, but that's not a big concern.

3. You're changing the campaign world drastically. If a cleric can do anything a wizard can do, or vice versa, societies are less likely to spend the resources to support both.

This doesn't mean it's a bad idea. Just that it's a BIG idea.

In terms of worldbuilding, if you do this, I'd consider a homebrew replacement for the Tier One caster, and figure out exactly what social role you want the churches to have.

[Nifft]

Would there be anything significant to consider if I removed the arcane/divine labels?

There were just spells, and any spell casting class could take spells from any source, so the only differentiator between classes would be the non-spell casting features and the various spells per day and spell acquisition types.

Class lists have deliberate gaps.

Allowing a Druid to cast healing & condition recovery spells like a Cleric would weaken the Cleric class, for example, since Druids have gaps in their healing & recovery capability.

Bards have very few direct-damage spells, but in trade they get Enchantment spells at a lower level than the equivalent Sorc/Wiz spell level. Look at lesser geas and charm monster, and Bards get a few healing spells which the Sorc/Wiz list lacks.

There's no particular need for Arcane vs. Divine -- removing the Arcane/Divine distinction would change almost nothing (scrolls, a few other minor things), unless you also changed the spell lists of each class.

If you open up the spell lists of each class, you get a bunch of silly things happening, since each class has a few stand-out spells.

== == ==

There have been spell systems where everyone has access to all the basic spells, and then the advanced / exotic spells are granted to specific classes, or by feats.

Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved had a spell system like that -- everyone got Basic spells, but only Mage-guys got all Complex spells, and each Exotic spell required a feat. The Not-Druid class got all Basic spells, plus Complex spells with any of the [Healing], [Plant], and [Animal] tags. You could take a feat to get all Complex spells with the [Fire] or [Cold] descriptor, I think.

In D&D 5e, all spells have a level, but there's no particular distinction between Arcane vs. Divine. Many classes can add a few spells to a character's spell list.


tl;dr - Arcane/Divine is irrelevant. Class lists are very important.

[Afgncaap5]

This could affect the bookkeeping of artificers.

Not by a lot, mind you; artificer infusions aren't arcane or divine anyway. However, artificer players love book diving for the classes that get spells at lower levels, and i've got a feeling that this might open up a few odd ripples if removing the arcane/divine divide translates to expanding spell lists.

Now give the artificer access to those spell lists as well (taking up infusion slots) and you've got a pretty awesome alternative to the wizard at lower levels. The wizard'll start getting better spells faster, and can get them all the way up to 9th level at first, sure, but right out of the gate there's some fun to be had since access to spells might obviate, somewhat, the need for UMD checks to emulate spells.

[Psyren]

Even if you maintain list separation, you've just opened up everyone to everyone else's prestige classes. Thus my cleric can, say, enter Mage of the Arcane Order and become a wizard gestalt. Or my Sorcerer can enter Contemplative or Sovereign Speaker and get a pile of domains to add to their spells known. The end result is that already strong spellcasters become even stronger.

[Afgncaap5]

Even if you maintain list separation, you've just opened up everyone to everyone else's prestige classes. Thus my cleric can, say, enter Mage of the Arcane Order and become a wizard gestalt. Or my Sorcerer can enter Contemplative or Sovereign Speaker and get a pile of domains to add to their spells known. The end result is that already strong spellcasters become even stronger.

Good point. It'd be nonsensical to allow, but Mystic Theurge would... well, either be impossible to allow (by virtue of their being no arcane or divine magic to call from, though arguing that would also invalidate other prestige classes that require arcane or divine magic specifically) or it would let it be a weird kind of "Wait until level 3, and now start doubling all your spell slots per level" kind of thing. Might make weird combos like using Paladin to get into Theurge be a little more reasonable, though there'd be little benefit due to the slow way they get slots.

[Gildedragon]

I've actually toyed with this idea, taken to the limit (psionics and infusions also falling under spellcasting)
I have, however been considering reworking all 9-casting classes into a single one with a very limited spells known pool (between 2-6 per level), and possibly Sha'ir-like access to a wider "spells deciphered" pool.

[EldritchWeaver]

If you want to prevent spellcasters from becoming even more powerful, then use Spheres of Power. It already has no distinction between arcane and divine (unless you want to reintroduce it) and is balanced around Tier 2 and 3.

[DMVerdandi]

1.Use generic spellcaster

2.Use spell point system

3. Have a spell swapping mechanic, so that they can swap out like... casting stat bonus/spells per day.
[Research for INT, Prayer/meditation for WIS, Artistry for CHA]
4.Have spontaneous domains(as well as arcane domains) as specializations.


So, now if you want a healer, take Healing domain.
If you want a Pyromancer, choose fire domain.
If you want a Transmuter, choose transmutation domain


Choose bread and butter spells for the spells known, and simply swap them out on occasion to change style.