So...I'm DMing for a Warblade.

[SangoProduction]

He's got so much damage that at level 4, he's beating buffed up CR 9 creatures (with encounter ratings of 11+), essentially single handedly, without any real cheese or really any combo to speak of. For pete's sake, his most damaging weapon is his bashing shield. I mean, occasionally he needs healing from the Archivist, but... At this point, we are fighting creatures so difficult for the rest of the party to handle, that if he falls, the rest of the party falls.

Also, how does warblade recharge mechanic work? In session, he told me "take a swift action (because of some feat) then make a melee attack." Does that mean he can use a strike, and recharge that strike by doing that?

I'm definitely thinking that I ought to just switch to 4e, because then melee would have something more than "I swing my sword," but doesn't so drastically **** the intended balance of the group when they do.

Do not get me wrong. This guy is not a ****. I think he's actually intentionally unoptimized with the bashing shield and one handed hammer. In fact, this is a nice guy. But the character is toxic to the game.

If I he's not using the recharge mechanic incorrectly, what do I do to fix the balance? I'd prefer if he got to be a sword-magic user, because of the boring "I swing my sword" syndrome mundanes face, but is it possible to fix this?

[Hackulator]

No he can't use a strike when recharging, he must use a normal attack.

Could you specifically describe the character and the combo he is using, because unless he's got LA it shouldn't be THAT bad.

[Thealtruistorc]

The quickest way to deal with busted characters: look over their character sheet and cross-reference everything. You are the first GM I've seen who has complained about this, so my money is on the concept that something is not quite right with the way the character is built.

If everything checks out, Then the other kind of advice comes out.

[Malimar]

Also, how does warblade recharge mechanic work? In session, he told me "take a swift action (because of some feat) then make a melee attack." Does that mean he can use a strike, and recharge that strike by doing that?
There's not a feat involved.

You can recover all expended maneuvers with a single swift action, which must be immediately followed in the same round with a melee attack or using a standard action to do nothing else in the round (such as executing a quick, harmless flourish with your weapon). You cannot initiate a maneuver or change your stance while you are recovering your expended maneuvers, but you can remain in a stance in which you began your turn.
So he can't recharge a strike in the same turn as he uses one. But it's still four rounds of strikes for each recovery round of swift+regular melee attack.

I don't know what to suggest to fix it (I'm sure others have ideas) other than to point out that martial adept classes begin to fall behind spellcasters at mid levels. Which doesn't help if there are other characters playing, say, monks and fighters. What's the party makeup -- warblade and archivist (who is apparently healing, which is about the least optimized use of an archivist's many talents, is the archivist doing other things too?) and what else? (Many of the best suggestions here will tend to involve buffing the other players, because nerfing the warblade doesn't maximize everybody's fun like buffing the others does.)

[Darrin]

He's got so much damage that at level 4, he's beating buffed up CR 9 creatures, essentially single handedly, without any real cheese or really any combo to speak of. For pete's sake, his most damaging weapon is his bashing shield. I mean, occasionally he needs healing from the Archivist, but... At this point, we are fighting creatures so difficult for the rest of the party to handle, that if he falls, the rest of the party falls.


I would presume that the rest of the players are at a much lower optimization level?

How optimized is the Warblade? Race, ability scores, feats, and so on?



Also, how does warblade recharge mechanic work? In session, he told me "take a swift action (because of some feat) then make a melee attack." Does that mean he can use a strike, and recharge that strike by doing that?


"You can recover all expended maneuvers with a single swift action, which must be immediately followed in the same round with a melee attack or using a standard action to do nothing else in the round (such as executing a quick, harmless flourish with your weapon). You cannot initiate a maneuver or change your stance while you are recovering your expended maneuvers, but you can remain in a stance in which you began your turn." (emphasis added)

So no, you can't recover and use a maneuver in the same turn. Most Warblades recover along with a full attack action, since this is considered a "melee attack" action. However, if you're looking for a minor nerf, you could rule that he can only make a single melee attack when he recovers his maneuvers.



If I he's not using the recharge mechanic incorrectly, what do I do to fix the balance? I'd prefer if he got to be a sword-magic user, because of the boring "I swing my sword" syndrome mundanes face, but is it possible to fix this?

Maybe add more fodder/minions to the encounters. That way if he unloads a 100+ damage combo, he's only gutting a kobold.

[RoboEmperor]

my go to balance solution is simply keep the XP reward the same but increase number of creatures.

BFC wizard completely trivializing my 6 bandit encounter? 9 bandits. Still too easy? 12 bandits. I make it so that they have to blast most of their shenanigans on the encounter just to bring it down to normal. I mean if 1 Web completely destroys the encounter, I either have the bandits surround them, ambush them, or require them to use web to make the encounter normal by having more bandits.

Ubercharger oneshotting my Balor? Two Balors. Still too easy? Four Balors. Too strong? Down to 3, though be warned, unless the PCs have a way to escape, you won't get a chance to go down to 3 because the 4 will TPK.

Superior numbers focus firing down one guy is very, very powerful, so you adjust the number so that they barely survive the encounter.

Super high AC untouchable guy? Have your guys ignore him, go around him, and kill the other guys first. The high AC guy only has so many AoOs.

edit:Added benefit of this method is that it doesn't break immersion. Every creature possessing Freedom of Movement suddenly because of Web is BS, but the bad guy bringing in more guys because 6 guys is not enough is totally not BS.

[Douglas]

The Warblade's recovery mechanic can reasonably be interpreted to mean that he can make a full attack in the round when he recovers maneuvers. However, it specifically forbids using any maneuver (which includes strikes) in the same round as the recovery, so recover+strike in one round is not a RAW-valid option.

Aside from that issue, it sounds like the optimization level of the party in general is pretty low. Tome of Battle tends to be a problem in low optimization parties, because it's really hard to build a Crusader, Swordsage, or Warblade that's weaker than a certain level without intentionally gimping yourself, and that level that it's hard to go lower than is a lot higher than for just about any other class. High enough that other classes often need more optimization than a lot of groups are used to in order to meet it. Not all that much more - high optimization can go a hell of a lot higher without even approaching theoretical stuff - but still more.

[Malimar]

I don't know what to suggest to fix it (I'm sure others have ideas) other than to point out that martial adept classes begin to fall behind spellcasters at mid levels. Which doesn't help if there are other characters playing, say, monks and fighters. What's the party makeup -- warblade and archivist (who is apparently healing, which is about the least optimized use of an archivist's many talents, is the archivist doing other things too?) and what else? (Many of the best suggestions here will tend to involve buffing the other players, because nerfing the warblade doesn't maximize everybody's fun like buffing the others does.)

To add to my own point: My usual go-to solution to balance problems is to give monsters loot well in excess of standard wealth by level guidelines, tailored to the needs of the weakest party members.

Got a monk in the party? Monk's Belt and Necklace of Natural Attacks.

Archivist? Divine scrolls of useful spells like hold person and entangle for them to copy into their spellbook to encourage them not to waste their spells per day on healing.

Sorcerer? Wand of some good sorcerer spell like web or fireball (fireball isn't usually considered optimal, but if the main problem you've got is the warblade doing too much damage, it's good if you toss in some encounters that are a bunch of weak dudes instead of just one strong dude -- which, as mentioned upthread, you should be doing anyway).

Powerful holy/unholy/axiomatic/anarchic weapon: pick one opposed to the warblade's alignment (so he can't use it without taking a negative level).

You could even throw in some crown of the white raven and its analogues (from Tome of Battle) for the party's other mundanes, to give them a taste of ToB maneuvers (and maybe encourage them to multiclass into ToB classes -- which, unlike multiclassing into a spellcaster and being forever behind, is a favorable choice, because your initiator level is half your non-initiator-class levels plus your level in initiator classes, and which maneuvers/stances you can pick depends only on your initiator level, so a paladin 4/crusader 1 has an IL of 3 instead of 1 and can pick 2nd-level maneuvers right off the bat). This item is tricky because it's also useful for the warblade, but if the warblade tries to call dibs just tell him to consider letting the other mundanes have them, he's a nice guy, he'll understand.

[danielxcutter]

It sounds like he has Adaptive Style, if he's recovering his maneuvers with a swift action. So that at least checks out IIRC.

Seriously, check out his character sheet. How the heck is he dealing that much damage?

[Draken]

He's got so much damage that at level 4, he's beating buffed up CR 9 creatures (with encounter ratings of 11+), essentially single handedly, without any real cheese or really any combo to speak of. For pete's sake, his most damaging weapon is his bashing shield. I mean, occasionally he needs healing from the Archivist, but... At this point, we are fighting creatures so difficult for the rest of the party to handle, that if he falls, the rest of the party falls.

Also, how does warblade recharge mechanic work? In session, he told me "take a swift action (because of some feat) then make a melee attack." Does that mean he can use a strike, and recharge that strike by doing that?

I'm definitely thinking that I ought to just switch to 4e, because then melee would have something more than "I swing my sword," but doesn't so drastically **** the intended balance of the group when they do.

Do not get me wrong. This guy is not a ****. I think he's actually intentionally unoptimized with the bashing shield and one handed hammer. In fact, this is a nice guy. But the character is toxic to the game.

If I he's not using the recharge mechanic incorrectly, what do I do to fix the balance? I'd prefer if he got to be a sword-magic user, because of the boring "I swing my sword" syndrome mundanes face, but is it possible to fix this?

These lines are at odds with each other, truth be told. There is a very distinct difference between "intentionally unoptimized" and "optimizing a subpar option". Bringing a knife to a gunfight might be less than ideal, but there is not much difference if you stab the gunner while he is asleep, after all.

That being said, we could point out any discrepancies if you show us the character sheet in question. Or maybe talk about the party, the specific enemies they are facing and the tactics you are making said enemies use.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It sounds like he has Adaptive Style, if he's recovering his maneuvers with a swift action. So that at least checks out IIRC.

Seriously, check out his character sheet. How the heck is he dealing that much damage?
Adaptive Style lets you change your maneuvers as a full-round. It's only useful for a Swordsage, who normally only gets one for a full round.

[danielxcutter]

Adaptive Style lets you change your maneuvers as a full-round. It's only useful for a Swordsage, who normally only gets one for a full round.

Oh. Why do I keep making these mistakes? :smallannoyed:

[Nifft]

Can you provide some info about the problematic character (i.e. post his character sheet including what maneuvers he knows), and maybe a bit about the rest of the party?

The classes in ToB:Bo9S are very strong in the very early levels, but in part that's because spellcasters don't really start to kick butt until level 5, and then kick disproportionate butt after level 7 or so.

[danielxcutter]

The classes in ToB:Bo9S are very strong in the very early levels, but in part that's because spellcasters don't really start to kick butt until level 5, and then kick disproportionate butt after level 7 or so.

That is the best description for ToB and casters that I've ever seen.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Most martial strikes are a standard action, so you can't use them as part of a full attack, and you can only use one per round. Fighting with two weapons to get an extra attack requires a full attack action, which cannot be combined with a standard action martial strike. Wolf Fang Strike is an exception to this, it specifically allows him to attack with both weapons, but normal two-weapon fighting rules apply.

He cannot initiate any maneuvers in a round that he recovers his maneuvers via the Warblade class feature, it specifically says so. He can make normal attacks in a round that he does so, but he cannot use a martial strike in that same round.

If he doesn't have the feat Improved Shield Bash, then he loses his shield's AC bonus when he attacks with it, until the start of his next turn. The Bashing property is priced at a +1 bonus, and it must be a +1 shield before it can have a special ability, so that's a 4,150 gp item at minimum, when wealth by level for a 4th level character is only 5,400 gp. Allowing him to have an item that's more than half his wealth by level may be contributing to the problem, since if it's a spiked heavy shield it's dealing 2d6+1 base damage with Bashing. TWF penalties are worse if it's a heavy shield instead of a light shield, since the offhand weapon isn't light. If it's not a +1 shield and just has Bashing, then it's breaking the rules, since a shield must have a +1 enhancement bonus to AC before any magical shield special abilities can be applied. If that's the case just say it's a +1 shield instead of a bashing shield, and he can upgrade it to +1 bashing later on.


Let's say he's got Str 18, a masterwork warhammer, a +1 bashing spiked heavy or light shield, two-weapon fighting, and punishing stance. He can use Wolf Fang Strike to attack once with each weapon as a standard action, or he can full attack to fight with two weapons. At 4th level it should look as follows:

Heavy Shield:
Main Hand: Masterwork Warhammer +5 melee, 1d8+1d6+4
Off Hand: +1 Bashing Spiked Heavy Shield, +5 melee, 3d6+3

Light Shield
Main Hand: Masterwork Warhammer +7 melee, 1d8+1d6+4
Off Hand: +1 Bashing Spiked Light Shield, +7 melee, 1d8+1d6+3

That's an average of 25.5 damage per round at +5 to hit with a heavy shield, or an average of 23 damage per round at +7 to hit with a light shield. That doesn't even have anything to do with being a Warblade.

If he's using Battle Leader's Charge (+10 damage) or Mountain Hammer (+2d6 damage), he can't attack with both weapons, and deals even less damage on average when doing so.

If he's using Power Attack he could be taking a penalty to hit for a bonus to damage, but he only gets +1 damage per -1 to hit, and if he's using a light shield it does not benefit from Power Attack, but still takes the penalty to hit.


If he's this much of a problem it's most likely that one or more rules isn't being followed and his character is combining things he shouldn't be allowed. Do an audit of his character (we'll take a look for you if you prefer) and keep track of what type of action it takes to do each thing he does in a turn.

[Crake]

Adaptive Style lets you change your maneuvers as a full-round. It's only useful for a Swordsage, who normally only gets one for a full round.

To be fair, adaptive style is still very useful for a warblade, though less so at early levels when you only have a few maneuvers to choose from. The main benefit is being able to change your maneuvers. For example, if you've got nothing but stone dragon readied and suddenly you're in a mid-air fight and the wizard's cast fly on you, being able to swap your maneuvers for something useful is a very big benefit.

Of course, it benefits the swordsage the most by far, because it simply eclipses their recharge mechanic in functionality.

What kinds of CR9 creatures are you pitting the party against honestly? It sounds like you must be throwing essentially "caster type" monsters, allowing the warblade to get into melee with them, and having no escape for them. For example, a warblade would rip a night hag a new one, ignoring it's DR with mountain hammer and crushing it's 68 hp, but a level 4 warblade against say, a greater earth elemental? That's also CR9, but it's 199 hit points of you're ****ed to a level 4 character. +23 to hit, 2d10+10 damage, for an average of 21 damage per hit, BEFORE power attacking, yeah, the warblade isn't going to last long.

I also agree with the sentiment of some of the other posters. Martials are more challenged by a higher quantity of lower level opponents, rather than a single big bad guy the can just run up to and attack, that's the kind of combat they more than excel at. I disagree with the sentiment of increasing the numbers without increasing the xp bonus though. If you want to keep the same xp, reduce the level of the enemies. If the enemies (say, bandits) are now barely able to even hit, throw in a bard with inspirational boost and that cheap medallion that gives your inspire courage +1, and song of the heart, all doable by 3rd level for an NPC, giving all their allies +4 to hit and damage for a relatively small CR increase. I usually fluff the bards as commanders, using oratory, rather than singing, so they feel more like a marshal. Give the enemies teamwork feats, tactics, have they have melee ranks which are high AC, but low damage, perhaps even tower shields, that block access to the ranks behind with guisarms and ranseurs, disarming and tripping opponents, have grenadiers at the back, tossing aoe explosives into the party's caster ranks whenever they try to cast spells. Well thought out encounters like that will give your warblade more than enough of a challenge, sure he may manage to one shot each bandit he hits, but he has 10-15 of them, and the rest of his party is falling like a brick.

For reference: 10 CR1 fighters, plus a CR3 bard is a level 7 encounter. A 1st level NPC has 900gp starting wealth, so all those characters should be able to afford a masterwork weapon and decent armor. Assuming the elite array, and a bard boosting, the fighters should be getting something like +7 to hit (+2 strength, +1 masterwork, +4 bard), those using polearms will be hitting for something like 1d10+7 (2*1.5 str, +4 bard). If they're fighters, so they can easily afford to pick up combat expertise and improved trip or improved disarm at level 1 regardless of race, then you can pad their hp with toughness or the like, or combat reflexes, as you'll see in a moment. The front ranks could have improved bullrush and tower shields. They can't hit very well because of their tower shields, but by bullrushing enemies back, they not only keep enemies at a respectable distance to their polearm allies, but also force their targets to provoke from potentially up to 3 polearm users on a successful bullrush, this is where combat reflexes comes into play, allowing them to attack multiple opponents as they're bullrushed.

If you want to bring that up to a level 9 encounter, you can either add another 7 CR1 fighters at minimum (up to 14 more for a total of 24 still leaves them at EL 9), or increase them to level 2 will also bump it up to EL9, though i'd recommend adding more, as an extra level doesn't do much for the encounter's challenge.

[Metahuman1]

Yeah, I want to see this players sheet. I think ether he has made some kind of error in the numbers, or you have made some kind of error in the numbers. That is not a slam, mistakes happen particularly in the math if your not a serious math head (and heavens above know that I am not a serious math head.)

But unless he's gotten some crazy race/class combo or some crazy item on him or he just rolls straight 20's in combat by weird fortune and almost always for max damage, I can't see why this should be happening, even WITH a warblade. Hell, I think most Barbarian or Dungeoncrash fighter builds would have a hard time putting out the kind of damage your talking about at level 4.

[Baby Gary]

If you need help with the math I can help, I know a fair deal about it. But seeing the character sheet and the players tactics would be needed if I were to be able to help more than people already have

[SangoProduction]

OK. We sorted it out now.

[EndocrineBandit]

And survey says?

[Grod_The_Giant]

OK. We sorted it out now.
Glad to hear. What was going on?

[SangoProduction]

Glad to hear. What was going on?

It was a whole mess of things. Mostly on my side of the table, although the spellcasters not spellcasting didn't help. (Talked to them about it.) There were a couple of mistakes on the character sheet which we fixed, so that should be fine.

[EldritchWeaver]

...the spellcasters not spellcasting didn't help.

I suppose spellcasters not spellcasting works, but they need to do it differently, if they want to keep up with martials: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22103835&postcount=106

[denthor]

I do not much like prestige classes.

But my first question is how does he get warblade at 4th level?

Most Prestige classes have a prerequisite you must follow.

Example assassin you must be evil, have performed a killing for a contract must be a 5th level thief or have the same basic attack bonus . If you do not meet all three you are not an assassin. You do not get the cool things that the class gives you.

Check qualifications.

[DEMON]

I do not much like prestige classes.

But my first question is how does he get warblade at 4th level?

Warblade is a 1-20 base class.

[Swaoeaeieu]

I do not much like prestige classes.

But my first question is how does he get warblade at 4th level?

Most Prestige classes have a prerequisite you must follow.

Example assassin you must be evil, have performed a killing for a contract must be a 5th level thief or have the same basic attack bonus . If you do not meet all three you are not an assassin. You do not get the cool things that the class gives you.

Check qualifications.

warblade isnt a prestige class?

[Fouredged Sword]

Another good thing to note that some DM's and players miss when reading ToB for the first time is that you cannot prepare multiple copied of a single maneuver. A wizard can prepare 3-4 fireballs at a time. A warblade can only ready a single mountain hammer even if he can ready multiple maneuvers of that level. If he wants to use mountain hammer again within a single combat, he MUST recover his maneuvers. This is important to note for the diamond mind save replacement counters and for some of the more high damage strikes.

[Waker]

denthor, the class they are talking about is Warblade (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2), one of the initiator classes from Tome of Battle.

[Deadline]

It was a whole mess of things. Mostly on my side of the table, although the spellcasters not spellcasting didn't help. (Talked to them about it.) There were a couple of mistakes on the character sheet which we fixed, so that should be fine.

Quick question, could you post up what kind of damage he was doing that let him basically solo monsters 5-7 levels higher than him? Because initiators generally can't do that, from what I've seen. Sure, an Ubercharger might be able to do it, but that's not an initiator. My suspicion is rules issues, but I'd need to hear from you to confirm. I'm asking because I'm considering running an initiator based campaign in the next 6 months or so for some folks who've not really used the ToB, and I'd like to compile a list of commonly made mistakes (or, if this wasn't due to mistakes, items to keep an eye out for as GM). Feel free to PM me if you'd prefer.

[Fouredged Sword]

Common mistakes

- You cannot replace an attack in a full attack with a strike. Strikes are generally standard actions. I don't think there are ANY strikes that are attack actions.
- You cannot ready more than a single instance of a maneuver at a time.
- You cannot use a counter, strike, or any other maneuver on a round that you recover maneuvers as a warblade. This includes AFTER you recover the maneuvers even if you would normally have the actions. Mostly this means you cannot use a counter during any round you recover maneuvers.
- You must have a high enough initiator level to learn a maneuver. This follows the same progression as a wizard's spell level progression. Your initiator level is the sum of your levels in a specific initiating class (crusader, warblade, or swordsage) + your level in PRC's + 1/2 your level in all other classes (including other initiating classes) (round down).
- On top of that you must normally have enough maneuvers known from the school you are selecting from. For example there are White Raven strikes that require you to know two other White Raven maneuvers before you can select them AND have enough initiator level to select a maneuver of that level. Stances count as a maneuver known for meeting these prerequisites.

[Kayblis]

Common mistakes

Your initiator level is the sum of your levels in initiating classes (crusader, warblade, or swordsage) + your level in PRC's + 1/2 your level in all other classes (round down).


I'd like to highlight that each initiator class has its own Initiator Level, for which even other initiator classes only count as half a level.
A Warblade 6 / Swordsage 2 / Fighter 2 has Warblade ilvl 8 and Swordsage ilvl 6.

[Fouredged Sword]

I'd like to highlight that each initiator class has its own Initiator Level, for which even other initiator classes only count as half a level.
A Warblade 6 / Swordsage 2 / Fighter 2 has Warblade ilvl 8 and Swordsage ilvl 6.

Yes, that is a good point. I will edit my post to be more clear.

[DEMON]

- You cannot use a counter, strike, or any other maneuver on a round that you recover maneuvers as a warblade. This includes AFTER you recover the maneuvers even if you would normally have the actions. Mostly this means you cannot use a counter during any round you recover maneuvers.



You can recover all expended maneuvers with a single swift action, which must be immediately followed in the same round with a melee attack or using a standard action to do nothing else in the round (such as executing a quick, harmless flourish with your weapon). You cannot initiate a maneuver or change your stance while you are recovering your expended maneuvers, but you can remain in a stance in which you began your turn.

You can recover all expended maneuvers with a swift action followed by a melee attack. At that point you're done recovering your expended maneuvers. You can't use the swift action counters, because your swift action for the round is already spent, but there's nothing stopping you from using a counter that eats your immediate action, during someone else's turn, even if it's still the same round.

[Fouredged Sword]

I see the reading you are using, i just read it slightly differently. I read it as as you are recovering maneuvers you cannot use any maneuvers for that round even if you had enough actions to do so.

I see your reading as a valid alternative reading. The key is how you read the term "while". I read it as "for that round".

[DEMON]

I see the reading you are using, i just read it slightly differently. I read it as as you are recovering maneuvers you cannot use any maneuvers for that round even if you had enough actions to do so.

I see your reading as a valid alternative reading. The key is how you read the term "while". I read it as "for that round".

If you were DMing and ruled it "your way", I wouldn't actually mind, as it can be argued both ways IMO - the rule is ambiguous. I just don't think it should be listed as a common mistake, when it can be read differently. Or, to be precise "immediate action counters" should probably be removed from that post.

[J-H]

-a charge and a standard action maneuver cannot be combined, ie no Emerald Razor charge. A boost (swift, such as burning blade) can be.

[Fizban]

You can recover all expended maneuvers with a swift action followed by a melee attack. At that point you're done recovering your expended maneuvers. You can't use the swift action counters, because your swift action for the round is already spent, but there's nothing stopping you from using a counter that eats your immediate action, during someone else's turn, even if it's still the same round.
You still have to wait until after your turn though, as an immediate action used during your turn becomes a swift action weather you like it or not. Not many counters you'd need to use on your own turn anyway.

[Cavir]

You can recover all expended maneuvers with a swift action followed by a melee attack.
Others said it too above, but I've always been playing it as the swift+standard attack recovers one maneuver. Oops! That really changes things. Thanks!

[zergling.exe]

Others said it too above, but I've always been playing it as the swift+standard attack recovers one maneuver. Oops! That really changes things. Thanks!

Probably because it's equivalent to the other two classes recovery methods. Crusaders are random every turn and Swordsages have a full round recovery for one in exchange for their bigger pool to choose from. Warblades just have a ridiculously good recovery mechanism by comparison to the other two since you can continue to attack while getting all maneuvers back.

[Douglas]

Probably because it's equivalent to the other two classes recovery methods. Crusaders are random every turn and Swordsages have a full round recovery for one in exchange for their bigger pool to choose from. Warblades just have a ridiculously good recovery mechanism by comparison to the other two since you can continue to attack while getting all maneuvers back.
Actually I'd say Crusaders have the best recovery mechanism - they don't have to spend any kind of action at all on it, and they don't have to go a round without using maneuvers either. It's a little inconvenient not having full control over exactly which maneuvers are available to you each round, but not all that much.

[Nifft]

Actually I'd say Crusaders have the best recovery mechanism - they don't have to spend any kind of action at all on it, and they don't have to go a round without using maneuvers either. It's a little inconvenient not having full control over exactly which maneuvers are available to you each round, but not all that much.

Agree totally -- Crusaders have the strongest recovery mechanism.

(Warblades have the most noob-friendly recovery mechanism, though. It costs more, but it's very predictable.)

[Hackulator]

Yeah a Crusader who does a good job of power selection is amazing.

[Fouredged Sword]

Warblades, expecially early warblades are maneuver starved though. They get so few readied maneuvers that the easy reset just means you can use your one or two strikes more than once per combat effectively. Swordsages must use their greatly expanded maneuvers readied pool. Swordsages have more short endurance, warblades have better mid to long. Crusaders beat both of them at fhe cost of control. You tend to select enough strikes that you always have something, but your utility abilities are very unreliable.

[Crake]

Warblades, expecially early warblades are maneuver starved though. They get so few readied maneuvers that the easy reset just means you can use your one or two strikes more than once per combat effectively. Swordsages must use their greatly expanded maneuvers readied pool. Swordsages have more short endurance, warblades have better mid to long. Crusaders beat both of them at fhe cost of control. You tend to select enough strikes that you always have something, but your utility abilities are very unreliable.

If you have extra readied maneuver as a crusader, you only ever need to prepare 3 strikes to be guaranteed access to a strike every round. Everything else can be counters and boosts, though admittedly crusaders don't get much access to those inherently, so you'd need to pick the up via feats/magic items.

[Douglas]

If you have extra readied maneuver as a crusader, you only ever need to prepare 3 strikes to be guaranteed access to a strike every round. Everything else can be counters and boosts, though admittedly crusaders don't get much access to those inherently, so you'd need to pick the up via feats/magic items.
Master of Nine on a Crusader is amazing. Hard to meet the prereqs without at least a dip in Warblade or Swordsage, but the increase in maneuvers readied means you can ready a few redundant maneuvers and can spam boosts and counters in addition to strikes without running out. Plus, cherry picking from all 9 disciplines.

[Fouredged Sword]

My point was that Crusaders, out of the box, tend to be more strike focused to ensure that they actually have strikes at all times. The number of utility maneuvers is limited by the extra slots left over after the strikes and by the fact that while strikes are more or less interchangeable, access to a specific utility maneuver is less sure. It makes them unreliable. MoTN fixes many of these issues (and is a really good PRC that has a lot of prereqs.)

Swordsages have the most readied maneuvers and thus the most options and endurance before their recharge, but the worst recharge mechanic. That means they tend to load up on utility and focus on actually attacking with bonuses to damage from stances and, commonly, shadow blade. If they use a lot of strikes they tend to not have much endurance if combat goes beyond 5 rounds (it normally doesn't though).

Warblades are pretty much a middle ground. They are nice easy recovery paired to a small, but manageable recovery list. Their utility powers must be selected carefully, but they are almost always going to be ready. The don't have a lot of room for diverse strikes, but they don't need to ready more than one or two and recover frequently to ensure they will more or less have one ready when needed. My normal pattern is Single target damage strike, group target damage strike, utility strike, utility maneuver, movement maneuver. MotN warblade is AWESOME.