Do you consider a score of 10 to be a dump stat?

[Cybren]

This came up in the optimization thread, with some people claiming that, for example, a ten charisma character as having dumped charisma. I find that notion absurd, that is a person with an average charisma score. It is certainly a non-prioritized stat, but I wouldn't consider that a dump stat unless it was deliberately lowered. I wouldn't even consider someone with no stats below 10 to even have a dump stat.

[mgshamster]

A dump stat is whatever stat you "dump" your lowest score in. You could have five 20s and one 19, and whatever your 19 is in is your dump stat.

[Cybren]

A dump stat is whatever stat you "dump" your lowest score in. You could have five 20s and one 19, and whatever your 19 is in is your dump stat.

I feel like this is an erosion of what the term means to such a degree that it ceases to have meaning

[LaserFace]

It's funny because I've never actually had this conversation elsewhere.

I always just sort-of assumed a Dump Stat was like when you're playing Baldur's Gate and (after rolling a million times to get the best results), you min-max your guy and the "min" is the dump stat. For me, whatever the lowest Charisma would go to.

I certainly didn't get the connotation that a 10 would be considered a "Dump" stat, even if it's the lowest. It wouldn't even occur to me to use the term in case I simply rolled for my stats, although I guess if I had a 7 on my sheet and someone asked me what I dumped, I suppose I'd know where to look. A 10, though? I'd say "Well I put my lowest into CHA, but none of my stats are bad."

[mgshamster]

To me, that's what it has always meant. It's the stat that's least important to you and you place your lowest score in it.

It's what I have used as a going definition for decades. I've really never seen anything else used.

The idea that it must be a stat under 8 seems odd. What if you had one 7 and five 6s. Would you claim all of them are dump stats?

It doesn't matter which number it is, it matters which stat is least important to the PC. That least important stat is the dump stat.

[Cybren]

I mean, in the 'what is valuable to a character' way, a fighter has charisma as a dump stat, they don't need it for anything.

I don't think a specific stat block sense that a dump stat is a dump stat unless you've lowered it below average. There's sorts of two definitions going on here, right?

[LaserFace]

The idea that it must be a stat under 8 seems odd. What if you had one 7 and five 6s. Would you claim all of them are dump stats?


I would claim I have a dump character.

[Laurefindel]

I see a dump stat as a stat you've put a cross on as "this character will never be good in this stat", usually followed with a logic that the stat in question might as well be as low as possible.

so i disagree with mgshamster above. its not just a low stat, its a stat you don't want to use, or practically cannot use.

To answer the question, I don't consider 10 to be a low stat, although I guess it can be you dump stat if you haven't got anything lower and adhere by that philosophy.

personally, I often buy all stats at at least 10 to avoid "dump stat" for my characters, or use an ASI to bring rolled ones to 10.

[Saiga]

I would say a Dump Stat is one that you've put no effort into raising. Not any stat below 10, not just the lowest stat.

So if you roll a 10 and don't add anything to it, I guess that would be your dump stat. If you went point buy and either brought it up to 10 via points or race selection, you haven't dumped it.

[Max_Killjoy]

I would claim I have a dump character.


I would say the dice took a dump... or rather left you with one.




To me, that's what it has always meant. It's the stat that's least important to you and you place your lowest score in it.

It's what I have used as a going definition for decades. I've really never seen anything else used.

The idea that it must be a stat under 8 seems odd. What if you had one 7 and five 6s. Would you claim all of them are dump stats?

It doesn't matter which number it is, it matters which stat is least important to the PC. That least important stat is the dump stat.



I see a dump stat as a stat you've put a cross on as "this character will never be good in this stat", usually followed with a logic that the stat in question might as well be as low as possible.

so i disagree with mgshamster above. its not just a low stat, its a stat you don't want to use, or practically cannot use.

To answer the question, I don't consider 10 to be a low stat, although I guess it can be you dump stat if you haven't got anything lower and adhere by that philosophy.

personally, I often buy all stats at at least 10 to avoid "dump stat" for my characters, or use an ASI to bring rolled ones to 10.


I'd say you're both kinda right, because it's about motive, not the particular numbers. If the motive is to set and leave the stat as low as possible in order to use the "character build resource" somewhere else for efficiency, then it's a dump stat. If it's set low because it would be the lowest stat of that character as envisioned, then maybe not. The difference between "this class's abilities won't ever need that stat" and "I picture this character as weak in this regard".

[Naanomi]

I define it as anything I don't plan on using... sometimes that can be a 10, if the character is very SAD and so has lots of points to use. My halfling crossbow battlemaster has a 10 Strength (for carry weight) but I still consider it a dump on the character

[mephnick]

Sometimes people use the term for stuff you should be really good at but ignore, like misguided souls that "dump" Int on an EK, even though they might throw a 12 in it.

[Gastronomie]

The way I see it:
Characters have two types of scores. The scores they use, and the scores they don't use.

The former scores are set to be high.
The latter, not so much. Even if it was 10, it's not so powerful a stat; you wouldn't go use it with reliance. Thus, I consider it a dump stat.

[bid]

This came up in the optimization thread, with some people claiming that, for example, a ten charisma character as having dumped charisma.
If I have Cha10 Con13, I will dump to Cha8 to get Con14.
If I have Cha10 Con14, I won't dump it any further because Con15 has no value to me.

Cha is still my dump stat, but I gain nothing by dumping to 8 vs dumping to 10.


It doesn't happen that often because 12 12 8 is prefered to 12 10 10, but it can happen.

[Coidzor]

It's not super low, but it also shows that the player doesn't intend the character to use that stat, either. Unless they're playing on hard mode and they have low stats across the board.

[Pex]

If I have Cha10 Con13, I will dump to Cha8 to get Con14.
If I have Cha10 Con14, I won't dump it any further because Con15 has no value to me.

Cha is still my dump stat, but I gain nothing by dumping to 8 vs dumping to 10.


It doesn't happen that often because 12 12 8 is prefered to 12 10 10, but it can happen.

This. I'll even add that sometimes I purposely choose 12 10 10 because what I'll get for the second 12 isn't worth getting the 8 for that particular character and/or my mood at the time. This tends to happen when the 10s would be going into CH and IN where both stats are my dump stats. I don't care about either for the character, but there's no reason to have a -1 modifier when I'm not caring about a +1 for the other since I'm not choosing a related skill to be proficient and saving throw is whatever. If IN or CH is important then it's DX that's getting the 10 with the other since I'm using heavy armor for AC, don't give a Hoover about initiative, and I'm taking damage from Fireball anyway so let Bounded Accuracy give me a chance to save. If I'm a spellcaster ST becomes a good candidate for the second 10. Why gimp myself on carrying capacity if I don't need to?

Sometimes the +1 will matter, and I'll take the 8.

[imanidiot]

I would claim I have a dump character.

I would tell the DM that I'm remaking the character with point buy or standard array or I'm fiding someone else to play witj

[imanidiot]

I would consider 10 a dump, but I would just go ahead qnd dump it down to an 8 as I obviously have no intention of succeeding in any roll with it.

[Matrix_Walker]

Dump stat: Character Attribute where you "dump" your worst rolled score, or where you devote no resources using point buy (in order to optimize elsewhere).

[Hrugner]

I also side with the intent over score philosophy. If you have a ten in something even after having spent no resources on that stat, then it's your dump stat as it received no resources.

[toapat]

There are basically 2 definitions of Dumping in DnD

the Hard dump and the Soft dump

a Hard Dump is an aspect of your character you never expect to directly utilize, such as a paladin and Wisdom or a Wizard and strength,

a Soft dump is anything character creation or you as a player forces you do make less effective use of. Say a paladin's utility spellcasting, or the Int skills for literally anyone. These are stats that are close to non- possitive or negative entirely of your ability ratings, avoiding Athletics on a melee combatant in favor of acrobatics, and putting that natural 3 you rolled on 4d6B3 in intelect because youre not the wizard

[RickAsWritten]

Dump stat: Character Attribute where you "dump" your worst rolled score, or where you devote no resources using point buy (in order to optimize elsewhere).

I agree with this.



the Hard dump and the Soft dump

Must...resist...urge...to resort...to toilet humor.

[CantigThimble]

I would tell the DM that I'm remaking the character with point buy or standard array or I'm fiding someone else to play with.

I would see how much crazy stuff I could pull out of that character before he bites it. (Or if he somehow survives to have significance to the plot then that's even funnier.) Depends on your playstyle.


Must...resist...urge...to resort...to toilet humor.

Well, you see the hard dump is all about squeezing as much out as you possibly can while the soft dump is more about 'going with the flow', so to speak.

[imanidiot]

I would see how much crazy stuff I could pull out of that character before he bites it. (Or if he somehow survives to have significance to the plot then that's even funnier.) Depends on your playstyle.

You have fun with taht (not sarcasm). Playing such a character does not appeal to me. I would get bored and frustrated and something would come up that I couldn't make it to the second or any subsequent sessions.

[Cybren]

I would see how much crazy stuff I could pull out of that character before he bites it. (Or if he somehow survives to have significance to the plot then that's even funnier.) Depends on your playstyle.



Well, you see the hard dump is all about squeezing as much out as you possibly can while the soft dump is more about 'going with the flow', so to speak.

Technically the proper term is firm, a soft dump would evacuate rapidly with con... you know what, maybe this isn't worth the accuracy

[Lombra]

Dump stats are players' choices, not strictly class-related. I like to have decent charisma on my martial characters, so it's never gonna be a dump stat for me. Dump stat is not tied to a value either, as mghamster said, it's simply the stat that you care the least about and therefore you are "dumping" the lowest score in it to never touch it again.

If the true meaning of the question is:"is 10 a junk score?" I would say that it is not what you want to have as your main stat, and I would put it in your dump stat, unless you have lower scpres to dump in it.

[Max_Killjoy]

There are basically 2 definitions of Dumping in DnD

the Hard dump and the Soft dump

a Hard Dump is an aspect of your character you never expect to directly utilize, such as a paladin and Wisdom or a Wizard and strength,

a Soft dump is anything character creation or you as a player forces you do make less effective use of. Say a paladin's utility spellcasting, or the Int skills for literally anyone. These are stats that are close to non- possitive or negative entirely of your ability ratings, avoiding Athletics on a melee combatant in favor of acrobatics, and putting that natural 3 you rolled on 4d6B3 in intelect because youre not the wizard

The holy warrior considers Wisdom a dump stat... of course.

:smalltongue:

[toapat]

The holy warrior considers Wisdom a dump stat... of course.

:smalltongue:

to be fair, the paladin hasnt been about judging people based on effective application of the principles of situational morality for a long time

[Scots Dragon]

I would tell the DM that I'm remaking the character with point buy or standard array or I'm fiding someone else to play witj

In AD&D, a character like that is, by the rules, something you'd reroll because it's a hopeless character and wouldn't last long. Also likely wouldn't qualify for any of the classes to begin with.

[Demonslayer666]

Your dump stat is not a value, it's the lowest score you throw away (dump), because you don't need it.

So no, I do not consider a 10 a dump stat. Your dump stat can be a 10, however. :smallcool: